Arcadia Discussion Zone

He was Henri Dujardin-Beaumetz, who served as Secretary of "Beaux Arts" in various governments from 1905. However, he would likely have come into Sauniere's orbit as a Limoux councillor (from 1887), and as a Deputy for the Aude from 1889 (re-elected in 1893, 1898, 1902, 1906 and 1910). He was elected a Senator for the Aude in 1912. He died in 1913.

A few points of minor interest.

- He was a painter, and married to one (Marie Petiet, from Limoux).

- He was a man of the left - a member of Gauche Democratique - who voted in favour of the law against congregations, and the separation of Church and State. He would therefore appear, on the face of it, to be an unusual guest of a monarchist priest. But then Sauniere also apparently had members of the local Radical Socialist Party up to the Villa Bethania for dinner as well. Had something changed Sauniere's views, one is bound to wonder? Had there been some change of heart since those early days of his ministry at RLC, when he had railed from the pulpit against the forces of republicanism and anti-clericalism - enough to lead to his temporary suspension, and gain him favour with the Comtesse of Chambord?

- Finally - nice little detail this - when the Mona Lisa was stolen in 1911, Dujardin-Beaumetz came in for some criticism for lax security at the Louvre. The painting was recovered a couple of years later.

Husjachi Lapky — Goose Feet...... Symbols of soul or spirit

"La pata de la oca-the goose foot." the cryptic sign, supposedly the mark of the Companions. ... "


The symbol of the goose leg & foot as worn by the mysterious people called Cagots living in the valleys of the Pyrenees.
They were labelled the "Accursed Race"....believed to be lepers, carriers of the plague.
The Cagots were ill-treated and there are many documents that reveal how they were banished to live on the outskirts of human society as they were deemed to be sorcerers and up to no good.
But curiously they were requested to build, repair or maintain religious and other important buildings.
Althought they were shunted into isolated places they were neither serfs nor vassels and were in fact Free-Men. They wore a distinctive sign on their clothes...a goose leg made from yellow or red fabric.

Strangely enough, Manetho's story, quoted by Josephus states that Moses was a leper & was expelled from Heliopolis on this account. Manetho also said that the Jews were driven out of Egypt because they were afflicted with this disease.


"Throughout the Way to Compostella, it is frequent, to find the symbol of the Leg of the Oca, The symbol used by the Construction Teachers of the Churches and Cathedrals."
"Le long du Chemin, il est fréquent, de trouver le symbole de la Jambe de l'Oca. On suppose, qu'il était un des symboles utilisés par les Enseignants Constructeurs les Églises et les Cathédrales"

"Also depicted as a Trident...the weapon of Poseidon... this sign was a symbol of the teachings of the Druids. "

"It is assumed, also, as quite likely that the fleur-de-lis original has been that trident of Poseidon, adopted by the French kings in their heraldry."

Interestingly enough La Pata de la Oca associated with the Construction Teachers, as they are known, is also shown as the TAU. ( are you following this )

The signature of the leg of goose has now become the shell of Santiago, the pagan significance has been lost or, at least, concealed.

As for the name of Santiago, perhaps in French we can more easily find the symbol. In French Santiago is "Jacques", and that name - in English, "Jack" - was used for a very long time, not as a proper noun, but as an adjective to describe some particularly wise men in all matters concerning construction, measures math, sense of sacred architecture.

All of these sages were "Jacques" or "Yago", in Spanish. It even retains a term basque: "Jakin," which means wise and that has a root identical to Jacques and to "Yago." Completing the symbolism and the name of Jacques or Yago, we see that not only means the wise architects, but will be united to deliver a special form of "goose" in French: "Jars."

So I can personally see how the name "Yago" can become "Cagots".
Transforming the "accursed race" of the Cagots (who even had their own entrance doors in to Churches and their own Water Stoup) into the "Druids" who had sacred construction knowledge.

And as to Tridents... we know what's missing from the Guardian Demons hand don't we!

Thankfully this conversation drifted quickly away from my original question regarding the “veracity of the “Jesus Bloodline theory” to deal with the more important, basic matters of the RLC mystery, like the source of Sauniere’s wealth, and what he spent it on. Some interesting questions and fascinating information has arisen from this debate and I was especially pleased to see something tangible emerge that lent itself to proper scrutiny. I’m not in a position to explore these avenues of research myself but I would hope that some of you reading this might take up the challenge and explore the veracity of Sauniere’s diary entries that assert the sale of masses, and check who may have stayed in the empty Villa Bethania?

My attention is elsewhere at the moment as have an article to finish, so I’m dipping out of the conversation at this point. Before I do so however I would like to respond to a few of the loose threads generated during this fascinating debate.

Richard
A memory failure again; I rechecked the SP article about the cisterns under RLC, and apparently the various fault lines that feed water to RLC come from Pach de Bugarach. The article continues; “one of the principle underground rivers of this sector has an important resurgence in the castle of Salses, near Opoul-Perillos. So I can’t say whether or not this enormous fissure that le Baulou and RLC sit alongside, continues on to Salse and Perillos – any geologists out there who can help? Importantly, I am not proposing the existence of a subterranean water link between these various places, simply that both le Baulou and RLC are located upon the same massive fissure in the landscape. I would just add that these active geological regions give rise to magnetic anomalies, a factor I believe to be relevant here.

TCP
you said:-
“ Couldn't the same thing be said of any region?”

Yes this is the point I make, there is an obvious link between ancient ritual activity, current ascetic activity, and high-places! It is the geology of these locations that is of specific interests to me, but once again you will have to await my second article to appreciate my surprising rationale here. In the meantime I shall leave you to ponder upon the significance of the second church on RLC, the penitent chapel of St Pierre aux Liens.

With regard to the GRAAL saints, only two exhibited a bodily radiance, St Roche and St Anthony of Padua. You are probably aware of the many reports of this enigma amongst priests and ascetics, a phenomenon invariably associated with the dungeons of castles and the cells of monastic orders, etc. A clear link with the above ascetic-high-places premise.

I make two assertions about this clinically recognised phenomenon, a) that is it related to the mystery of the Grail, the mysterious sanctuary radiance that I refer to in my first article; and b) that these saints are the focus of a church within a church; i.e. I believe that the extensive placement of St Roche and St Anthony of Padua together in the private side chapels of churches across Europe, expresses another view of Jesus’ transfiguration, one that conflicts with Rome. What are the implications of Sauniere making this same point?

Thanks for the leads by the way I will follow up on the white-ladies and the Basque grave stones, etc. I do believe that you a bit of the mark with your assertion that these are "indigenous". I place the origins of these ideas and practices, etc, way back in the Stone Age. This was when a series of kernel ideas spread outwards from the Fertile Crescent on the wave of a ritual revolution that anthropologists erroneously describe as the spread of civilisation.

I hope this post continues as there are many interesting details emerging from your various conversations.

John

John,

Bugarach could be very fertile ground indeed for your continued researches. Aside from its geology (and it's immense natural beauty) it is the site of many myths and legends - that the "underground stream" flows beneath it, that it is the entrance to the subterranean kingdom of Argatha, etc. Jules Verne appears to reference it in his novel Clovis Dardentor (discussed on the "Castle at Vialasse" thread).

I've linked below to a fascinating Societe Perillos article on Bugarach, which I hope you might find interesting.

http://www.perillos.com/bugarach1.html

In haste (regrettably),

Richard

My point exactly.

I appreciate that, Roger. The earlier claims have proven just as successful. Despite the hair-trigger derision from several armchair internet experts, the authorities who mattered (those who actually examine documentation as part of their vetting processes as opposed to those who say they have better things to do with their time) were entirely satisfied. All the documentation issued to me has the full historical rendition of my surname - Foix-Carmain de Périllos - with heraldic quarterings for Foix, Carmain, Périllos, and Isle-Jourdain on the concession-of-arms. And no conflict of interest was determined vis-a-vis the rights of the Arróspide family who petitioned for (1917) and received a grant for (1927) the title "Vizconde de Perellós" as they are not Périllos descendants, don't make use of the surname, and don't have an hereditary right to the heraldic arms.



I stand corrected, my apologies.



Roger, if you think there is something I ought to consider, something I have missed or overlooked, please do me the favor of being specific and offering sources where I can have a look.



Then I would ask you to be specific and point me in the right direction where I may see for myself what you are seeing.



Any and all such religious confraternities were served by chaplains of the religious orders sponsoring lay confraternities - typically based in the actual parish church from whence the lay confraternity is chartered. Was there a chapter of La Sanch based at Rennes-le-Chateau? Was the Perpignan chapter the first to be founded?



Dispelling the myths, actually.



"Psmithian" - ouch. Well, perhaps someone has to keep the blanket smears up, given that Psmith will be out of commission for awhile.



Emphasis here on heretical (or perhaps lapsed) Catholics, and monarchists of the Orléaniste faction which had a natural political disposition to organized Freemasonry (the latter having helped to instigate the downfall of Charles X and his replacement on the throne by Louis-Philippe d'Orléans in 1830, as well as the fomenting the succession crises in Spain in 1833 and Portugal in 1831-34).



Rosters which I am fairly confident would not have been published or made publically known, n'est-ce pas? How would we know who among them, if any, held traditionalist beliefs versus those who were secret apostates?



On that point I wholeheartedly agree.

TCP

Yes Pilrig, mostly Anglican, not surprisingly, I've not met a Roman Catholic priest who is a Freemason, although John XXIII relaxed things a bit during his pontificate. The generally laid down reasons for prohibition include knowing "secrets" sacred from the confessional......well, modern technology has put paid to that, and Freemasonry being a substitute for Roman Catholicism or religious beliefs in general. Expect the Anabaptists to be excluded in Ratze's next bull.
My question was not have we any evidence that BS was a Freemason, but could he have been a member of La Sanch?

Not according to what Ratzinger wrote in "Quaesitum Est":

It has been asked whether there has been any change in the Church’s decision in regard to Masonic associations since the new Code of Canon Law does not mention them expressly, unlike the previous Code.

This Sacred Congregation is in a position to reply that this circumstance in due to an editorial criterion which was followed also in the case of other associations likewise unmentioned inasmuch as they are contained in wider categories.

Therefore the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic association remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful who enrol in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion.

It is not within the competence of local ecclesiastical authorities to give a judgment on the nature of Masonic associations which would imply a derogation from what has been decided above, and this in line with the Declaration of this Sacred Congregation issued on 17 February 1981 (cf. AAS 73 1981 pp. 240-241; English language edition of L’Osservatore Romano, 9 March 1981).

In an audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect, the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II approved and ordered the publication of this Declaration which had been decided in an ordinary meeting of this Sacred Congregation.

Rome, from the Office of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, 26 November 1983.

Joseph Card. RATZINGER

Prefect




Was there a chapter of La Sanch in Rennes-le-Chateau? Or any closer than Perpignan? Wouldn't it seem rather odd to have a chaplain for a lay confraternity in a place where there was no lay confraternity requiring chaplaincy?

TCP

Thankyou TCP for your post, I don't however see in it any specific reason to forbid membership, just that Masonic principles do not agree with the church's doctrine. The church obviously needs to be coy about its deliberations, I was merely putting the generally accepted interpretation for the ban. It is noteworthy that Freemasonry does not exclude Roman Catholics, or Buddists and so on....it requires only that an initiate have a belief in a supreme being. However, the Ancient and Accepted Rite until recently required a belief in the trinitarian faith alone, this is causing a schism in the body as a whole at present, as it precludes non Christians. Masonry has prided itself on its virtual universal acceptance of candidates, Chapters in the Rite are currently debating whether to split from Supreme Council over this "relaxation" of "suitability". It may be an attempt to boost dwindling membership. But I digress, and what has this to do with RLC? Well, I don't know if there was local chapter of La Sanch in RLC, and I woudn't know where to start looking for the proof. I bow to the superior knowledge and resources of others on this forum. But if BS was a member (he would not necessarily have to be the chaplain), it might explain some of his absences to northern Spain.

Hi Roger

Can you expand upon this "young Abdon" thing or point me the direction of a reference... thanks

John

When the stated position of the Catholic Church stipulates that any Catholic who becomes a Freemason has committed a grave sin and cannot receive communion, that is a very clear statement. In the eyes of the RCC one cannot be a Freemason and remain a Catholic in good standing. It isn't Freemasonry that is drawing those lines, it is the church. Now, the generally accepted interpretation for the ban by Freemasons and non-Catholics may rest on other speculations, but the church's position remains pointedly clear.



Exactly. And more specifically, what has it to do with RLC a century ago?



I've said it before, I'll say it again. La Sanch is a Catholic lay confraternity; Sauniere was not a layman. This isn't a detail that can be discounted because it might be inconvenient to an intriguing theory - it is a major lacuna in the logic that requires addressing.

TCP

Roger, what is the source for this story? It seems a bit strange to think that a religious confraternity would have been given custody of a child (one would assume an orphan, as the child's parents might have had something to say about this) rather than entrusting his care to an orphanage. Certainly the raising of a dead child to life again would have merited considerable attention, true? Lots of press coverage? Investigation of a miracle by the ecclesiastical authorities? Something like that might have made Sauniere famous in his own time rather than a century later.

TCP

Thanks Roger

Do you think this deserves a thread of its own, its a very puzzling incident, one that should be verifiable.

A caried out a quick search for st's abdon & sennen and up popped a SP article suggesting a link between these saints and La Sanch?

I was unable to discover how the grave of these two Persian saints (who died in Rome)ended up in Arles?

Did the incident take place in Arles, and if so, are there any suggestions as to what Sauniere was doing there; its a fair distance from RLC near the Spanish border... is that significant?

If the child was really dying, he should have been given the last rites by Sauniere using holy water. I found no mention of this tomb-water being blessed for concecration, but that doesn't mean anything.

Intriguing

More details please...

John

Saint Abdon and Saint Sennen, illustrious Persian dignitaries of the third century whom the king of Persia had highly honored, were secretly Christian; it was they who had taken up the body of the martyred bishop, which had been cast contemptuously before a temple of Saturn, to bury it at night, with honor.
The two royal officials, now fallen under the domination of Rome, were grieved to witness the emperor’s cruelty towards the faithful, and believed it their duty to make known their love for Jesus Christ; thus, without fear of their new sovereign, they undertook by all possible means to spread and fortify the faith, to encourage the confessors and bury the martyrs.

They were into re-burials.

Saints Abdon and Sennen were decapitated by the way........

Just like Saints Barbara, Cecilia, Agnes, George, John the Baptist to name a few,......" Through decapitation they obtained the crown of Martyrdom"

They had newspapers back then, Roger. And telephones, telegraphs, wire services, trains that ran on time...



Source? Surely you must have learned about this incident somewhere?



Source? Come now, Roger - neither of us were born knowing the nature and role of La Sanch. If you're going to dismiss "orthodox" and academic representations as superficial, show me what you've seen that you find more convincing. Hopefully something not penned by Filip Coppens or Andre Douzet.

TCP

Which is a long-winded way of saying you can't provide references, as I suspected. Thanks just the same.

TCP

Roger quoted this..........."Cette eau, à toutes les époques, a guéri des maladies de toute espèces................ elle est surtout efficace pour les yeux (interestingly, the same peculiar properties as ascribed to the fountain at Notre Dame de Marceille).

The Earthquakes that happened in Saint Paul de Fenouillet recently exposed the following information.

Springwater chloride ion anomaly prior to a 5.2 Pyrenean earthquake


We performed, over a 598 day sampling period, chemical analyses of commercially bottled spring water (namely Alet water) rising in the vicinity of Saint Paul de Fenouillet (French eastern Pyrenees) where a ML = 5.2 earthquake occurred. These data display a chloride ion anomaly starting 5 days prior to the quake and lasting 10-13 days. The anomaly is characterized by Cl- concentrations 36% above background values. This precursory chemical change is attributed to a pre-seismic strain change, which induced mixing of geochemically different aquifers. Chloride-rich groundwaters are known to rise close (10 km) to the Alet spring, and mixing calculations suggest that a limited inflow of similar waters within the Alet hydrologic system is a viable explanation for the chloride ion anomaly. This result confirms that mineral springs are promising sites for the search of earthquake geochemical precursors.

Then check out the connection between Chloride Ions..Thermal Springs..and cures for all sorts of illnesses especially eye & sight problems. No wonder the water along this fault line is beneficial.

Isn't it mysterious how things happened back then? A tenth-century abbott brings back from Rome a couple of saints' relics to stop the storms and flooding in the Vallespir, and the next thing you know the locals are attributing miraculous healing to the bones, venerating them, and spreading the word across the countryside to the big cities. That's medieval Catholicism for ya! Next thing you know, pilgrims take to the highways...

Sounds a lot like those academic and orthodox hagiographies you've been chiding us to ignore, Roger.

Oh - and since when (and according to whom) are Charlemagne and the Benedictines considered Arian?

TCP

I already know that dodge, Roger. I'm not interested in wasting my time looking for things that don't exist.

TCP

Alet-les Bains...........

According to local tradition both Charlemagne and Nostradamus favoured the water here.

Imagine that - the Visigoths rejected Arianism and took up Catholicism in 589, and yet there were still Visigoth officials openly practicing Arianism two centuries later for Charlemagne to turn his ecclesiastical "structure" over to! How did chroniclers and historians overlook that for thirteen centuries?

Where on earth do you get this stuff, Roger? Certainly not out of those non-authoritative "orthodox" academic histories you disparage.

TCP

Hi Sheila

Thanks for your much earlier reference to the RISE, I finally found it on SP. A very interesting article on Sauniere's possible occult leanings and necromancy. I take it that this was the article you alluded to.

Given my particular angle here I found Homer's "book of the dead" in the Odyssey particularly interesting. Before calling upon the deceased spirits, Teiresias informs Odysseus that " Any ghost to whom you give access to the blood will hold rational speech with you". Interesting that the demon Asmodeus was summoned by King Solomon to build his temple. His admission to Solomon that he "hates water" would appear to have had some significant for Sauniere.

Thanks again
John


John

Good catch, Sheila.



They were carpenters and woodcarvers; in fact it was one of the few trades allowed them (along with undertaking, wicker-work, and rope-making).



Free, to the degree that they were isolated from society and had no rights; rather worse off than serfs.



And not the Galician scallop shell brought back by pilgrims as a token of their journey?



As in the phrase "jack of all trades, master of none"? Doesn't the phrase actually imply one who has a certain competency in several trades, and an ability to integrate them, but in fact has not attained mastery of any?



Actually, the Basque term is "Jaungoikoa" and it refers to their pagan moon god - "Lord of the Moon" - Janicot. Jacques and Iago are derivations of the Latin Iacobus, itself a derivation of the Hebrew name Ya'akov, meaning "grabbed (or pulled) by the heel", i.e. breach-birth. Jakin, or Jachin, is a pillar of Solomon's Temple. Nothing to do with Basques.



Can you cite examples of sacred architecture constructed by Druids?

If you look beyond the Celts to the race who constructed the cromlechs and menhirs of Neolithic Europe from Iberia to Britain, you'll see that you've made the right connection - but far earlier than Druids, let alone Christians, arrived in western Europe.

TCP

John Harper,

Are you sure the Water stoup shows us Asmodeus??

The Cagots not only had their own small door into the Churches but had their own Water stoup as well. Have a look at this one...... "bénitier de Cagots en l'église de Saint Savin"

"Entering at the small side door, immediately within stands a curious
and very old benitier (font), with two curious individuals
carved in the stone supporting the basin. These are supposed to
represent two "Cagots," a despised race for whom the font itself
was constructed. Very few people know anything about their origin,
but they were greatly detested by the inhabitants of the country,
and not even allowed to worship in the same church, or use the same
"holy water" as the rest.

http://secretebase.free.fr/civilisation ... stians.htm
Heres the photo


Talking of blood....
Ambroise Paré (1506-1590), the father of modern surgery, called to the service of King Henry II, hadn't scientifically looked into this strange race, damned for 3 centuries already.. At the time, the Chrestians, ( Cagots )who lived isolated, hadn't lost any of their physical and physiological characteristics registered under the Carolingians. Ambroise Paré spent several weeks studying them, doing his best not to let himself influence. He proceeded to collect genuine medical observations and carefully write them down. He notably reports their prodigious capacity to practice "mummification through magnetism". This exercice, reported here in the old original French, is supposed to reveal the power of personal magnetism : " l'un d'iceux tenant en sa main une pomme fraîche, icelle après apparaisoit aussi aride et ridée que si elle eut restée l'espace de huit jours au soleil "
[Translation : "One of them holding a fresh apple in his hand, this one soon appeared as dry and wrinkled as if it had stayed 8 days in the sun".] Ambroise Paré explains this reaction by the abnormally high heat released by their body. It is told that during a bloodlettting, a nearly boiling liquid of a bluish/greenish colour flowed from his [the Cagot] veins. These characteristics caused a specific set of laws to be set up in order to ban them from society and prevent them from mixing with other humans.
[…]They were forbidden to get married, and even to mate with other human beings. This idea was even the subject of humour, because it seems nothing was known about their mode of reproduction. The popular rumour said they were bisexuals, so much that they were never mentionned using a gender ! Discrimination was at its peak during trials : the accounts of 7 Chrestians were needed to compete with a single human account. Things remained this way during the whole Middle Ages, but, progressively, the Chrestians mixed with the population, and it is perhaps the sign of their integration. By the XVIIIth C., only popular folklore talked about beings with such strange characteristics. History [the French revolution] accelerated the disparition of this banned people.

Blue Blood?...........So looking less like Blood on the Dancefloor and more like Green / Blue blood in the Operating theatre... here we read of the modern equivalent........

The unusual case of a man who produced green blood when undergoing a operation is analysed in a Case Report in this week's edition of The Lancet.

Dr Stephan Schwarz and Dr Alana Flexman, Department of Anaesthesia, St Paul's Hospital, The University of British Columbia, Vancouver, Canada and colleagues performed the operation and authored the Case Report.

The man - a 42-year-old white Canadian - had developed a compartment syndrome (localised tissue/nerve damage due to restricted blood flow) in both lower legs after falling asleep in a sitting position. He was a smoker whose medical history included chronic shoulder pain and migraine, and was taking a number of regular medications, including sumatriptan to treat the migranes.

Doctors decided he needed urgent fasciotomies (a limb saving procedure in which tissue is cut into to relieve pressure) and he underwent emergency tests, which determined he was mildly tachycardic (rapid heart beat) but had normal blood pressure and his only initial abnormal blood result was an extremely high creatine kinase concentration.

In the operating theatre, multiple attempts to insert a radial arterial catheter yielded dark greenish-black blood, which was immediately sent away for analysis. Meanwhile the catheter was eventually fully inserted, and the man recovered well.

Sulfhaemoglobinaemia, rather than cyanosis, was diagnosed as the cause of the green-black blood. Cyanosis is usually caused by deoxyhaemoglobin (the deoxygenated form of the blood's oxygen-carrying haemoglobin molecule), which imparts a blue colour to the skin and mucous membranes. However, occasionally this discolouration can be caused by sulfhaemoglobin - which forms when a sulphur atom is incorporated into the haemoglobin molecule, and can be caused by medications, including sulfonamides.

Sulphur in the blood and or altitude thin air ?