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 Post subject: Re: Rosslyn connection
PostPosted: 04 Dec 2011 8:56 am 
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http://www.scotsman.com/scotland-on-sun ... _1_1990883


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 Post subject: Re: Rosslyn connection
PostPosted: 04 Dec 2011 11:21 am 
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hi pilrig

thank you for the link to rosslyn chapel.

But back to Roslin castle. There was a reason, that the nazis have a strong interest in the castle. I think they believe that the chapel is only a symbol ( a model ) of the castle !

When I have a look at the groundplan of the castle ( taken from " Architecture of Scotland" )
I can see the ruins of the westwall which "should have been" the rest of the chapel, the ruins of the keep (donjon), the ruins of the forebuildings and the drawbridge and at least the eastwing, which is still in use today.

If I see the structure of the westwall and the keep, I get an idea that they reflect the groundplan of the Rosslyn chapel.
..
Attachment:
Roslin%20Castle%20Grundplan.jpg

It could never be true, that a castle from this size has such a giant chapel ! But if I cut out the shape of the ruins and mirror it, I get the complete groundplan of ROSSLYN CHAPEL ! The numbers of bows in the sidewalls are according to the real chapel. On that point, where the stairs to the crypt of the real chapel are situated is written "Entrance 1.level of the keep".
Ther is a strong analogy between the castle and the chapel. So it is probably that the nazis are right in their meaning, that all of them which we are looking for in the chapel is burried in Roslin Castle ! After a short reseach I found the entrance to the subterrain vault in the eastwing of the castle. But this is annother story. I made a mistake to contact the "honored" family of the St.Clairs (Sinclair) - they took my knowledge and through me out of the game, just like gentlemen do. But they cannot go in, because historic scotland has his hands on the building, and gave a lot of money to renovate the chapel.

If anybody wants to explore the entrance in the eastwing (you can rent the house for a week), he is welcome to send a PM and I tell him the exact location of the staircaise to the vaults.
..
Attachment:
Roslin%20Chapel%20Grundplan.jpg

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 Post subject: Re: Rosslyn connection
PostPosted: 04 Dec 2011 11:34 am 
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The dungeons we ventured into were under the hall/dining room area here's a photo link. The door we exited from into the glen has as mentioned been bricked up (you cant see it in the photo http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/r ... le-450.jpg.

Further down the glen on the opposite side of the North esk there's http://www.scottish-places.info/feature ... t1288.html


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 Post subject: Re: Rosslyn connection
PostPosted: 04 Dec 2011 11:48 am 
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Thanks, for that Pilrig

I know that room. Did you hear the story about the "hound of Roslin Castle" he dissapeared exactly through that door you mentioned.

Here is a report of Mr. John Ritchie :
"I was born and brought up in Roslin, and went to school in the village. When I was about twelve years old my friend one Neil Leitch and I spent quite a bit of time playing in Roslin castle, as Neil's Aunt, Miss Leitch was the caretaker and lived in the castle some forty years ago. We explored most of the nooks and crannies of the Castle as boys of that age are wont to do.
One Saturday, near the end of February (my birthday is the 25th of February, this is why I remember it) we were exploring the second level corridor which connects the monks cells, the old scriptorium, and the dungeons, when all of a sudden we were aware of some light coming from the end of the corridor which had had the windows blocked up and there was normally no light and coming from that area, the light grew in intensity which was enough to alarm the senses of two twelve year olds, who admittedly were searching for just this kind of experience.

We both looked at each other to check that we were both aware of the phenomenon, we both turned at the same time and took off along the corridor at what seemed like record breaking speed, until we came to the old main kitchen which is a big room with a stone staircase which is built into the right hand side or the east wall of the castle as we hurried up the stair we looked down to see the light which had been growing and moving towards us down the corridor was what appeared to be a large wolfhound type dog, which ran underneath us, and appeared to go straight through the wall next to the large fireplace, which was the old main cooking area for the castle. We did not stop until we got up the staircase and through the door into the upper part of the castle.

To be suddenly met by Miss Leitch who could tell from our nervous state that something had happened, when we blurted out the story, Miss Leitch smiled and said "aye boys its an old castle, with lots of strange things like that, but dinna worry about them they will no harm ye, come and have a bottle of lemonade". Nothing more was said, we drank our lemonade and had some biscuits and the sense of fear dropped away. But, we did not go near that particular corridor for quite a long time.

Much later we looked at the wall where the apparition of the dog had disappeared to find that it had once been a doorway. The arch from the door still exists today. Miss Leitch, my friend Neils aunt, lived at the castle on her own for about twenty years as the sole caretaker and tourist guide, and many times recently, I have wished that I had spoken more to her about her experiences at the Castle, but youth rejects the wisdom of age and its only now I regret missing the opportunities, gifted to youth. "

This is the story of the hound and John Ritchie , but the entrance to the vault is not that door.

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 Post subject: Re: Rosslyn connection
PostPosted: 05 Dec 2011 6:28 am 
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Pilrig wrote:
http://www.scotsman.com/scotland-on-sunday/scotland/rosslyn_bones_from_up_to_three_bodies_1_1990883



Oh Pilrig great article thanks

When I visited Rosslyn they were renovating and I snuck a bit of a peek at a hole the workers were working on I thought electrical...surprising there is space between the walls going down toward the crypt

Hans
yes they rent out the castle ....

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 Post subject: Re: Rosslyn connection
PostPosted: 05 Dec 2011 7:20 pm 
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lovuian wrote:
Ok Serendipity you made me get out the Turnbull again
thank you Mary for pointing this book out

:D

Your right the stone with your R on it or key the rose one which has the floreate Crusader cross is very important
in 1330 Will St Clair was killed in Spain trying to deliver the Bruce's heart to Jerusalem

this stone was found in Old Saint Matthews which is now Roslin Cemetery

Scots have great loyalty to stones...I saw the important one at Edinburgh castle next to a queens jewels

now that I look at the floreate cross again I see something

Something interesting in turnbull for you Bill
it has to do with the Templar lands

it ended up in the de Lisours family
then to the Mehvilles
then Saint Clair bought the 6 acres

the de Lisours are interesting :wink:



And who did the Bruce go to when he needed protection? He had his own lodge on Donnachaidh lands. A clan that is now known as the Sons of Robert....Robertson.

With the "R" on the end of the 'key'; how obvious do they need to be?

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 Post subject: Re: Rosslyn connection
PostPosted: 05 Dec 2011 9:28 pm 
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hans peper wrote:
Thanks, for that Pilrig

I know that room. Did you hear the story about the "hound of Roslin Castle" he dissapeared exactly through that door you mentioned.

Here is a report of Mr. John Ritchie :
"I was born and brought up in Roslin, and went to school in the village. When I was about twelve years old my friend one Neil Leitch and I spent quite a bit of time playing in Roslin castle, as Neil's Aunt, Miss Leitch was the caretaker and lived in the castle some forty years ago. We explored most of the nooks and crannies of the Castle as boys of that age are wont to do.
One Saturday, near the end of February (my birthday is the 25th of February, this is why I remember it) we were exploring the second level corridor which connects the monks cells, the old scriptorium, and the dungeons, when all of a sudden we were aware of some light coming from the end of the corridor which had had the windows blocked up and there was normally no light and coming from that area, the light grew in intensity which was enough to alarm the senses of two twelve year olds, who admittedly were searching for just this kind of experience.

We both looked at each other to check that we were both aware of the phenomenon, we both turned at the same time and took off along the corridor at what seemed like record breaking speed, until we came to the old main kitchen which is a big room with a stone staircase which is built into the right hand side or the east wall of the castle as we hurried up the stair we looked down to see the light which had been growing and moving towards us down the corridor was what appeared to be a large wolfhound type dog, which ran underneath us, and appeared to go straight through the wall next to the large fireplace, which was the old main cooking area for the castle. We did not stop until we got up the staircase and through the door into the upper part of the castle.

To be suddenly met by Miss Leitch who could tell from our nervous state that something had happened, when we blurted out the story, Miss Leitch smiled and said "aye boys its an old castle, with lots of strange things like that, but dinna worry about them they will no harm ye, come and have a bottle of lemonade". Nothing more was said, we drank our lemonade and had some biscuits and the sense of fear dropped away. But, we did not go near that particular corridor for quite a long time.

Much later we looked at the wall where the apparition of the dog had disappeared to find that it had once been a doorway. The arch from the door still exists today. Miss Leitch, my friend Neils aunt, lived at the castle on her own for about twenty years as the sole caretaker and tourist guide, and many times recently, I have wished that I had spoken more to her about her experiences at the Castle, but youth rejects the wisdom of age and its only now I regret missing the opportunities, gifted to youth. "

This is the story of the hound and John Ritchie , but the entrance to the vault is not that door.


I know John Ritchie, he's a level-headed bloke not given to flights of fantasy.

I didn't look too close when me and the missus were in the castle...I just wanted to get the hell out ! Nothing supernatural about that, I just don't like dark places. There are worse in fact this place in East Lothian http://ukspectre.webs.com/yestercastle.htm gave me the creeps on a sunny September day, funny enough Yester Castle the ruin is superficially similar to its Rosslyn counterpart.

Not far up the North Esk valley is another allegedly haunted place - Old Woodhouselee http://www.mysteriousbritain.co.uk/scot ... selee.html


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 Post subject: Re: Rosslyn connection
PostPosted: 06 Dec 2011 12:47 am 
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Serendipity wrote:
And who did the Bruce go to when he needed protection? He had his own lodge on Donnachaidh lands. A clan that is now known as the Sons of Robert....Robertson.

With the "R" on the end of the 'key'; how obvious do they need to be?


R isn't for Rosslyn?

TCP


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 Post subject: Re: Rosslyn connection
PostPosted: 06 Dec 2011 2:11 am 
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TCP wrote:
Serendipity wrote:
And who did the Bruce go to when he needed protection? He had his own lodge on Donnachaidh lands. A clan that is now known as the Sons of Robert....Robertson.

With the "R" on the end of the 'key'; how obvious do they need to be?


R isn't for Rosslyn?

TCP



Well, not particularly in my little world.....gotta let the crazy lady have a bit a fun. It's all I have! And, well.....you never know what those crazy Scots were up to.

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 Post subject: Re: Rosslyn connection
PostPosted: 06 Dec 2011 8:29 am 
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Pilrig wrote:
I know John Ritchie, he's a level-headed bloke not given to flights of fantasy.


I also learned him and his friends to know. But there is nothing good I can tell about his friends (Niven S. and others). John R. is the speaker of an obscure brotherhood, the masonics . I hope, I never meat those honourless "gentlemen" again. (sorry that I must say that)

But I love Midlothian. And I love bagpipe music.

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 Post subject: Re: Rosslyn connection
PostPosted: 06 Dec 2011 8:34 am 
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Serendipity wrote:
And, well.....you never know what those crazy Scots were up to.


I learned them to know. They are sitting like spiders in a net called "Rosslyn Chapel" and waiting for fat flys coming from outside. Be careful.

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 Post subject: Re: Rosslyn connection
PostPosted: 06 Dec 2011 8:23 pm 
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Serendipity wrote:
TCP wrote:
Serendipity wrote:
And who did the Bruce go to when he needed protection? He had his own lodge on Donnachaidh lands. A clan that is now known as the Sons of Robert....Robertson.

With the "R" on the end of the 'key'; how obvious do they need to be?


R isn't for Rosslyn?

TCP



Well, not particularly in my little world.....gotta let the crazy lady have a bit a fun. It's all I have! And, well.....you never know what those crazy Scots were up to.



Crazy ?


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 Post subject: Re: Rosslyn connection
PostPosted: 06 Dec 2011 8:26 pm 
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We are all together crazy, are we not ? :P

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 Post subject: Re: Rosslyn connection
PostPosted: 06 Dec 2011 8:30 pm 
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hans peper wrote:
Pilrig wrote:
I know John Ritchie, he's a level-headed bloke not given to flights of fantasy.


I also learned him and his friends to know. But there is nothing good I can tell about his friends (Niven S. and others). John R. is the speaker of an obscure brotherhood, the masonics . I hope, I never meat those honourless "gentlemen" again. (sorry that I must say that)

But I love Midlothian. And I love bagpipe music.


John Ritchie is in the Craft ? Not sure about that. You mention Niven Sinclair, I'm not sure if you include his namesake Andrew Sinclair amongst the 'friends' but I recall a debate by Andrew Sinclair about the supposed Templar connection with Rosslyn Chapel (there aint) and John Ritchie accused AS of ignoring his Sinclair genealogy, or something to that effect.


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 Post subject: Re: Rosslyn connection
PostPosted: 06 Dec 2011 9:24 pm 
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Please pilrig,

I am tired about Niven, Ritchie, Napples and others. I get my lessons in March/April this year. For me , this story is closed. I had a lot of work to get my hands clean again.

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 Post subject: Re: Rosslyn connection
PostPosted: 07 Dec 2011 7:03 pm 
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Pilrig wrote:
Crazy ?




Pilrig....how ya doing?

You know that I didn't mean that in derogatory terms. I love everything Scottish....mi familia.
Oh wait....that's not Scottish. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Rosslyn connection
PostPosted: 07 Dec 2011 7:59 pm 
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Serendipity wrote:
TCP wrote:
Serendipity wrote:
And who did the Bruce go to when he needed protection? He had his own lodge on Donnachaidh lands. A clan that is now known as the Sons of Robert....Robertson.

With the "R" on the end of the 'key'; how obvious do they need to be?


R isn't for Rosslyn?

TCP



Well, not particularly in my little world.....gotta let the crazy lady have a bit a fun. It's all I have! And, well.....you never know what those crazy Scots were up to.


Did you know that Ireland has an unrelated Clan Donnachaidh as well? Clan Ó Donnchadha, pronounced o-don-a-chu, i.e. O'Donohue. The are a sept of the Eóganachta, Irish royalty. I believe they were the kings of Cashel.

TCP


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 Post subject: Re: Rosslyn connection
PostPosted: 08 Dec 2011 3:19 pm 
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Actually, yes I believe I do know this.....I believe they have a website.

I'm thinking though, that this particular family are descendant of Brian Boru, which is different DNA than Niall....if I'm not mistaken one is R1a and the other R1b, but it has been awhile since I looked at that information.

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 Post subject: Re: Rosslyn connection
PostPosted: 08 Dec 2011 3:26 pm 
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hans peper wrote:
hi pilrig

thank you for the link to rosslyn chapel.

But back to Roslin castle. There was a reason, that the nazis have a strong interest in the castle. I think they believe that the chapel is only a symbol ( a model ) of the castle !

When I have a look at the groundplan of the castle ( taken from " Architecture of Scotland" )
I can see the ruins of the westwall which "should have been" the rest of the chapel, the ruins of the keep (donjon), the ruins of the forebuildings and the drawbridge and at least the eastwing, which is still in use today.

If I see the structure of the westwall and the keep, I get an idea that they reflect the groundplan of the Rosslyn chapel.
..
Attachment:
Roslin%20Castle%20Grundplan.jpg

It could never be true, that a castle from this size has such a giant chapel ! But if I cut out the shape of the ruins and mirror it, I get the complete groundplan of ROSSLYN CHAPEL ! The numbers of bows in the sidewalls are according to the real chapel. On that point, where the stairs to the crypt of the real chapel are situated is written "Entrance 1.level of the keep".
Ther is a strong analogy between the castle and the chapel. So it is probably that the nazis are right in their meaning, that all of them which we are looking for in the chapel is burried in Roslin Castle ! After a short reseach I found the entrance to the subterrain vault in the eastwing of the castle. But this is annother story. I made a mistake to contact the "honored" family of the St.Clairs (Sinclair) - they took my knowledge and through me out of the game, just like gentlemen do. But they cannot go in, because historic scotland has his hands on the building, and gave a lot of money to renovate the chapel.

If anybody wants to explore the entrance in the eastwing (you can rent the house for a week), he is welcome to send a PM and I tell him the exact location of the staircaise to the vaults.
..
Attachment:
Roslin%20Chapel%20Grundplan.jpg



Don't know that the images are going to show, but the mirror image on the bottom is the exact lay-out for an old chapel in Williamsburg, VA. I'll try to find the lay out of the chapel later today....for now, I have got to get some work done. I'll be back later. (Why is Xmas so busy????? It's cold outside....I'd rather be laying in the sun somewhere....need a drink with an umbrella in it.....okay TCP give us a pic of some California sunshine, please)

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 Post subject: Re: Rosslyn connection
PostPosted: 08 Dec 2011 8:35 pm 
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Brigates, Hebdam, Hibernii, Gangam and Rogbodi.. some of the Irish tribes. Do you know what they worshipped, where they came from, where they went?

In the bigger island next to Ireland, there were Brigantes, Belege, Caledany, Cathidu, Carnones, Dampnones, Danj, Lobum, Lugi, Orduies, Rigim and Silires.. memes questions. (Not a lot of Scythians in these lists, they hide well?)


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 Post subject: Re: Rosslyn connection
PostPosted: 08 Dec 2011 11:02 pm 
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Serendipity wrote:
Actually, yes I believe I do know this.....I believe they have a website.

I'm thinking though, that this particular family are descendant of Brian Boru, which is different DNA than Niall....if I'm not mistaken one is R1a and the other R1b, but it has been awhile since I looked at that information.


No, the predominant O'Brian haplogroup is R1b1b2a1b5 (RL226) while Niall's descendants are predominantly R1b1b2a1b5b (RL222). From the data I've seen the O'Donaghues are primarily R1b1a2 with various subclades.

TCP


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 Post subject: Re: Rosslyn connection
PostPosted: 09 Dec 2011 12:34 pm 
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the haplogroup of the scots is R2D2- C3PO :lol:

Sorry for that joke

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 Post subject: Re: Rosslyn connection
PostPosted: 09 Dec 2011 1:13 pm 
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TCP wrote:
Serendipity wrote:
Actually, yes I believe I do know this.....I believe they have a website.

I'm thinking though, that this particular family are descendant of Brian Boru, which is different DNA than Niall....if I'm not mistaken one is R1a and the other R1b, but it has been awhile since I looked at that information.


No, the predominant O'Brian haplogroup is R1b1b2a1b5 (RL226) while Niall's descendants are predominantly R1b1b2a1b5b (RL222). From the data I've seen the O'Donaghues are primarily R1b1a2 with various subclades.

TCP



Okay, from Robertson DNA results, the people associated with Niall are R1b1a2
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/clandonnachaidh/default.aspx?section=ycolorized

I put the "a" in the wrong place....

And the Pictish DNA is M222

The M222 SNP is now called R1b1a2a1a1b4b
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/R1b1c7

Edit to add: they have been changing some of the DNA number and letters as of late, so we may be looking at the same information, only with changes.

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 Post subject: Re: Rosslyn connection
PostPosted: 09 Dec 2011 1:25 pm 
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Serendipity wrote:
hans peper wrote:
hi pilrig

thank you for the link to rosslyn chapel.

But back to Roslin castle. There was a reason, that the nazis have a strong interest in the castle. I think they believe that the chapel is only a symbol ( a model ) of the castle !

When I have a look at the groundplan of the castle ( taken from " Architecture of Scotland" )
I can see the ruins of the westwall which "should have been" the rest of the chapel, the ruins of the keep (donjon), the ruins of the forebuildings and the drawbridge and at least the eastwing, which is still in use today.

If I see the structure of the westwall and the keep, I get an idea that they reflect the groundplan of the Rosslyn chapel.
..
Attachment:
Roslin%20Castle%20Grundplan.jpg

It could never be true, that a castle from this size has such a giant chapel ! But if I cut out the shape of the ruins and mirror it, I get the complete groundplan of ROSSLYN CHAPEL ! The numbers of bows in the sidewalls are according to the real chapel. On that point, where the stairs to the crypt of the real chapel are situated is written "Entrance 1.level of the keep".
Ther is a strong analogy between the castle and the chapel. So it is probably that the nazis are right in their meaning, that all of them which we are looking for in the chapel is burried in Roslin Castle ! After a short reseach I found the entrance to the subterrain vault in the eastwing of the castle. But this is annother story. I made a mistake to contact the "honored" family of the St.Clairs (Sinclair) - they took my knowledge and through me out of the game, just like gentlemen do. But they cannot go in, because historic scotland has his hands on the building, and gave a lot of money to renovate the chapel.

If anybody wants to explore the entrance in the eastwing (you can rent the house for a week), he is welcome to send a PM and I tell him the exact location of the staircaise to the vaults.
..
Attachment:
Roslin%20Chapel%20Grundplan.jpg



Don't know that the images are going to show, but the mirror image on the bottom is the exact lay-out for an old chapel in Williamsburg, VA. I'll try to find the lay out of the chapel later today....for now, I have got to get some work done. I'll be back later. (Why is Xmas so busy????? It's cold outside....I'd rather be laying in the sun somewhere....need a drink with an umbrella in it.....okay TCP give us a pic of some California sunshine, please)



Okay....found it. The Bruton Vault

http://www.godasmother.org/bruton_vault.html

Excavations in the 1930's uncovered the original chapels foundation and ancient graves.
http://www.history.org/foundation/journal/spring05/funerals.cfm
It is this chapel that had a layout like Roslin. But I can't find the drawing from the excavation that shows this and I don't have time to look for it today. I thought I had posted on this forum somwhere.....

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 Post subject: Re: Rosslyn connection
PostPosted: 09 Dec 2011 1:48 pm 
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Tertius wrote:
Brigates, Hebdam, Hibernii, Gangam and Rogbodi.. some of the Irish tribes. Do you know what they worshipped, where they came from, where they went?

In the bigger island next to Ireland, there were Brigantes, Belege, Caledany, Cathidu, Carnones, Dampnones, Danj, Lobum, Lugi, Orduies, Rigim and Silires.. memes questions. (Not a lot of Scythians in these lists, they hide well?)



According to the Annals of the Four Masters the Scythians were located in Ulster, Donegal, and Leinster.

They paid tribute each year of corn and the drink they made from mare's milk.

Evidently, thousands of them were buried in a mass grave where they had died of plague.

Edit to add:
http://www.ucc.ie/celt/online/T100005A/

"Nine thousand of Parthalon's people died in one week on Sean Mhagh Ealta Edair, namely, five thousand men, and four thousand women. Whence is named Taimhleacht Muintire Parthaloin. They had passed three hundred years in Ireland"

"Ireland was thirty years waste till Neimhidh's arrival."

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