Arcadia Discussion Zone

Yep, my only point was that there was nothing directly from Stein regarding Ravenscroft.

... because Stein never even heard a single word of Trevor's existence.

Just bought 2 dvd's on the occult history of the third reich.

Started watching the first one on Himmler the mystic.
Turns out the third reich got their clues of legalisation of human breeding from the United states sterilisation programs starting from Indiana and North Dakota.
It seems the German Eugenicists were impressed by the way the U.S. handled their processes and lets face it the U.S. obviously have gotten away with it.

By 1930, 28 U.S. states had passed similiar laws and by 1939 over 30,000 people had been sterilised.
It actually became a competition with Germany believing it was becoming left behind in the race for human improvement. The renamed the program Racial hygiene and started competing to outdo the U.S. by introducing stricter measures.
I bet this is one race the United States is glad it lost, I wonder how it is about being number 2, though.

Rain, no insult intended and I'm sure I'll regret responding to this, but this is too controversial a subject to allow a generalized "the US started it" statement. For starters, humans have been participating in eugenics/genocide since the dawn of time in one form, or another, from flat out exterminations to laws proscribing who can marry who. The modern form that started in the 19th century is only different in that it incorporated science as a rationalization, which meant that there were a lot of "progressive" supporters who believed they were "improving the world" to go along with the usual sadists and racists - this was because of the growing scientific understanding of genetics, something that is starting to rear it's ugly head again in the late 20th/early 21st centuries with genetic screening. While some of the American laws were certainly abhorrent, they were concentrated primarily on the mentally ill and criminal populations and reflected thinking that was echoed throughout the Western world at the time. Take a look at who some of the famous Eugenics supporters were for an eye-opener. Also take a look at what the Germans did in Namibia and then tell me they learned from the Americans.

Napoleon put paid to that, or more correctly the last Holy Roman Emperor abdicated rather than have Bonaparte get his mitts on the crown.

Robert Feather had access to do tests on the lance, albeit in a limited time frame. If I remember rightly (probably wrongly) the nails attached to the lancehead were of an earlier dating.

Caelum believe or not I thought about it but there is a very good reason why I start there. In the first section it actually starts to talk about the youth and how important they were believed to be in the next generation. We know about "Hitler Youth" what is not spoken about or understood is how far back this all started. For instance Plantard was called "Captain W.A.Y." and headed catholic youth squads as part of the gaullist strategy on cultural intelligence or C.O.I.N. The PoS called itself boy's scout club for this very reason and identified itself as post war manifestation of this type of operation. What it means as you so correctly put it, there two sides to every story. What you're seeing now in the introduction of M.K. Ultra actually started before that. When you see a creation of what looks like innocent institutes for the advancement of mankind is the result of all of this. In other words what we do today directly derives from what happened in these programs but they started before the wars. The U.S. had a lot more information, planning and intelligence a lot earlier then has been discussed and since this is very serious business Caelum and it is a political storm brewing it's best to get the facts straight. There were a lot of documents along with other things that the PoS, Synarchists etc... that are pre-1945 that have been mentioned but the content hasn't been identified. The seeds of why governments and the Catholic church address the matter of what seems like small policies and cults is because there is dangerous exponential growth when left unchecked as you see with what started with a small beer group that grew into the third reich or even the PoS that has grown into the epic RlC saga and franchise.

You have a choice here, Caelum, and I see you've made it. I was going to expand on what I had posted it was basically a work in progress as you can see elsewhere I was waylaid. If you don't feel you need the information or it's to controversial to discuss I won't discuss it.

Before I leave it alone, I do have one very telling question for you Caelum, The Priory of Sion story that all know is fiction but what do you think is behind it i.e. what model do you think it was based on? In other words what is the Priory of Sion?

I think he said that it was similar to a 1st century Roman nail, but there wasn't much more to it than that in terms of any actual testing, etc.

I think both were devotees of Rudolf Steiner.

Rain, It's not my place to ask you, or anyone else to stop discussing anything, but if I think something is inaccurate, or too generalized, I am going to respond.

As I said I didn't have time to further elucidate plus it's an extraordinarily complicated subject and it wasn't inaccurate.

I'll repeat the question as it was edit.

Thank you again for recommending this; it's an excellent book. I've been reading it while I'm in France, and I'm so glad I brought it with me.

Walter Horn, who's narrative drives the story, really was an exceptional person; the right person in the right place at the right time, as it were, to find what might otherwise have been lost. His academic background, and his coming from Germany, made him ideal for his task of tracking down the crown jewels of the Holy Roman Empire; and it was striking that, while he was properly loyal to his adopted country, and loathed nazi-ism, he also had great compassion for the suffering of the civilian population of Germany post-WWII, and much of the detail about what it was like to be in Germany in 1945 was also very interesting. It's also worth noting that his mission, and that of others like him, was as much about protecting the cultural heritage of Germany and Austria, as it was about repatriating works of art that had been looted by the Nazis from countries that they had occupied.

The focus on the occult aspects of Nazi-ism was very interesting, as was that on their appropriation and corruption of German academia in the 1930s. The chapters "Himmler's Scholars", and "Hitler's Fairytale Kingdom" were particularly interesting, as was that on Exernsteine, and Wewelsburg Castle. Perhaps because of the enormity of everything else they did, this aspect of the Nazi regime hasn't previously been given as much attention as it should have. This book does so, in a very sober, factual and non-excitable way.

A very good read. Thanks again.

I am glad you enjoyed it Richard and another great synopsis by you

I found the whole thing fascinating, the political manoeuvring of various Nazis by the Americans into local government in order to facilitate the re building of the devastated city, the historical aspect of it all including the location, buildings, monuments and relics and most of all the details of the events as they occurred in that short period of time leading up to the war trials …….all in all a very good read.

Rain wrote:



More incoherent gibberish IMHO

Actually i agree strongly on this point.

The Synarchic aspect is another salient point but if Sparty says its gibberish then it must be right? Him being the resident expert and all that

Perhaps it's cos your the Holy Roman Empire that he made the effort to reply to your post and no others take it as a compliment.

Welcome to the shit list Rain

It sort of makes you wonder how many epidemics were actually controlled experiments.

TCP

Fair enough, I stand to be corrected. I'm in a hyper sceptical mood at the moment. I think the supposed MK-Ultra link is seriously over-stretching...

The MK-Ultra link is gibberish, of course, but the largely American influence on modern Eugenics is not. It is being revived under several different covers, in America. And while America has been the birthplace of several very popular counter-culture movements and trends, it should not fool anyone. It remains a fundamentally fascist place, at heart.

As "THE HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE" I found I had to delegate the responsibility of a lot of tasks and weed out the, well, basically the weeds. So anyway Spartarse among others went on my ignore list awhile ago. I found it brought peace to the Empire. (oops almost said Kingdom)
Further to that I had to spruce myself up a bit and crack open a thesaurus, overcome my dsylexia that I was unaware I had until it was pointed out to me & practice the rythym of ventriloquism so there would be exquisitely streamlined Syncopation between me and my sub-units, principalities, duchies, counties, Free Imperial Cities and domains.


Thank-you on behalf of "THE HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE" Tingra for wheeling out the Welcome wagon.
The shit list does have it's perks, for instance you must have a budget for the party, & don't be surprised if I dress up as a jongleur de gestes, it is fancy dress isn't it?

Some of the counter-culture movements originate out of seemlingly innocuous institutes set up for the purposes of research. These include the Esalen Institutue, SRI, Institute of Noetic Sciences.
One of favourite books was/is the THE FUTURE OF THE HUMAN BODY by MICHAEL MURPHY. It was supposed to have been derived from over 3,000 individual studies and papers.
When I looked closely into the funding of it - I realised it had a murkier background.
I had always known where some of the funding had come from on SRI and the Noetic Sciences because they are quite open about military contracting, it was the others that were not so obvious that.... I don't know what to say. It's all quite disheartening and I think I'm just a hippy at heart, a high maintenance one because I like my Prada but still a hippy.

Hmmm.... sounds like a great name for a film - "The Hippie Wears Prada".

And what's your fav Enid Blyton book hotspur? I bet it's The Naughiest Girl in School.

The only dress code is chain mail, it helps when you have to fend off those blows chucked at you from all directions
i knit myself a snazzy little dress with some wire wool, looks lovely with a pair of steel tipped Jimmy Choos, sling back of course.....i will send you the pattern

oh, i almost forgot, the tin foil hat is a must have even for THE HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE but look on the bright side, its great for a bad hair day.

Some of the West's most respected progressive organizations were initially funded by trust funds belonging to the 13th directorate of the KGB, at Banque Lambert, in Bruxelles.

With the new reality imposed by US Homeland Security fiats, investigating and culling your donor lists is an essential element of survival.

But it appears that right-wing terrorism benefits from considerable protections.