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 Post subject: Re: Berenger Sauniere's Regalia some questions
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2011 3:01 am 
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Saint Philomena is connected with the anchor

http://holysoulshermitage.com/2011/08/26/16-holy-souls-hermitage-heroes-and-heroines-the-great-virgin-martyr-philomena/

Saint Philomena and Mary Magdalene together just scroll down on the link
The documented cure of Ven. Pauline Jaricot, foundress of the Society for the Propagation of the Faith, which occurred at the Mugnano tomb of Philomena, took place with proximate involvement and knowledge of Pope Gregory XVI.[18] The pontiff met with Jaricot in Rome while she was gravely ill with heart disease and heard directly from Jaricot of her intention to travel to Mugnano, for the specific purpose of petitioning the martyr Philomena for a cure so as to serve as a supernatural manifestation of God’s desire to have the martyr raised to the liturgical veneration of the altar. The documented cure took place on August 10, 1835, with a complete and instantaneous healing of Jaricot with regard to her heart and overall health

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 Post subject: Symbolism
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2011 11:43 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Berenger Sauniere's Regalia some questions
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2011 4:36 pm 
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Saint Philomena has her hands damaged also but in a similiar form as Magdalene at Rennes Chateau
her knee is bent and her hands are placed on her thigh

She carries the lillies
(fleur de lis)

Another help was the cure of the near-dying Venerable Pauline Jaricot, founder of the Society for the Propagation of the Faith,[11] at Philomena's shrine on 10 August 1835

Jaricot's fortune was stolen by Bishop Dubourg's minion and some unscrupulous businessmen
She was visited by Dubourg and supported the missions in America
Pauline Jaricot was born in Lyon on July 22, 1799.
the Living Rosary took pennies and ended up accruing a large fortune
used for charitable works

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 Post subject: Anchor
PostPosted: 04 Oct 2011 1:23 am 
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St. Philomena with an anchor. Why is she associated with the anchor, L.?

How old is that stone carved with a fish and the PAX?

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 Post subject: Re: Berenger Sauniere's Regalia some questions
PostPosted: 04 Oct 2011 1:43 pm 
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On 24 May 1802 in the Catacombs of Priscilla on the Via Salaria Nova an inscribed loculus (space hollowed out of the rock) was found, and on the following day it was carefully examined and opened. The loculus was closed with three terra cotta tiles, on which was the following inscription: lumena paxte cumfi. It was and is generally accepted that the tiles were in a wrong order and that the inscription originally read, with the leftmost tile placed on the right: pax tecum Filumena (i.e."Peace with you, Philomena"). Within the loculus was found the skeleton of a female between thirteen and fifteen years old. Embedded in the cement was a small glass phial with vestiges of what was taken to be blood. In accordance with the assumptions of the time, the remains were taken to be those of a virgin martyr named Philomena

The belief that such vials were signs of the grave of a martyr was still held in 1863, when a 10 December decree of the Sacred Congregation of Rites confirmed a decree of 10 April 1668.

The spread of devotion to her in France as well as in Italy was helped when Saint John Vianney built a shrine in her honour

Devotion included the wearing of the "Cord of Philomena", a red and white cord, which had a number of indulgences granted to it, including a plenary indulgence on the day on which the cord is worn for the first time. There was also the chaplet of Saint Philomena, with three white beads in honour of the Blessed Trinity and thirteen red beads in honour of the thirteen years of the saint's life.

notice the number thirteen

According to Sister Maria Luisa di Gesù, Saint Philomena told her she was the daughter of a king in Greece who, with his wife, had converted to Christianity. At the age of about 13 she took a vow of consecrated virginity. When the Emperor Diocletian threatened to make war on her father, her father went with his family to Rome to ask for peace. The Emperor fell in love with the young Philomena and, when she refused to be his wife, subjected her to a series of torments: scourging, from whose effects two angels cured her; drowning with an anchor attached to her (two angels cut the rope and raised her to the river bank); being shot with arrows, (on the first occasion her wounds were healed; on the second, the arrows turned aside; and on the third, they returned and killed six of the archers, after which, several of the others became Christians). Finally the Emperor had her decapitated. The story goes that the decapitation occurred on a Friday at three in the afternoon, as with the death of Jesus. The two anchors, three arrows, the palm and the ivy leaf on the tiles found in the tomb were interpreted as symbols of her martyrdom.

"Filumena" meant "daughter of light". (It is usually taken to be derived from a Greek word meaning "beloved".

On 14 February 1961, the Holy See ordered that the name of Saint Philomena be removed from all liturgical calendars that mentioned her

Heres the controversy
Her relics had been questioned a priest said that the vial was just perfume not blood
an archeology team found he was wrong ...the phial contained not only blood but a bone chip

A traditionalist Catholic group associated with the Society of St. Pius X sees the 1961 removal of the feast of Saint Philomena from those calendars in which it was inscribed as "the work of the devil in order to deprive the people of God of a most powerful Intercessor, particularly in the areas of purity and faith at a time when these virtues were so much being challenged as they continue to be up until now!

Another group claims that Saint Philomena has given further revelations even in the twenty-first century.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philomena

this is a message from Saint Philomena
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3kD57apxuI&feature=player_embedded#!
The enemy will not prevail
Pope Gregory XVI referred to her as the “wonder-worker” of the nineteenth century. Bl. Pope Pius IX declared her the “Patroness of the Children of Mary.”

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 Post subject: Re: Berenger Sauniere's Regalia some questions
PostPosted: 04 Oct 2011 6:10 pm 
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lovuian wrote:
A traditionalist Catholic group associated with the Society of St. Pius X sees the 1961 removal of the feast of Saint Philomena from those calendars in which it was inscribed as "the work of the devil in order to deprive the people of God of a most powerful Intercessor, particularly in the areas of purity and faith at a time when these virtues were so much being challenged as they continue to be up until now!


TPF, perhaps?

TCP


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 Post subject: Re: Berenger Sauniere's Regalia some questions
PostPosted: 04 Oct 2011 10:45 pm 
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Quote:
TPF, perhaps?

TCP

Don't know TCP
but it is interesting that some of these traditionalists don't look on Pope Benedict as the rightful pope :shock:

The two most prominent societies of traditionalist priests - the SSPX and the FSSP - claim to have a presence in 31 and 14 countries respectively. A large share of their members in each case are stationed in France.

Two other societies, the SSPV and CMRI, are based in the United States and also claim a presence in many countries, especially the CMRI.

For purposes of comparison with mainstream Catholic organisations, the Knights of Columbus in the United States are stated to have 1.7 million members, the Neocatechumenal Way is reported to have around 1 million members,[53] and Opus Dei is claimed to have 87,000 members.

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 Post subject: Re: Berenger Sauniere's Regalia some questions
PostPosted: 04 Oct 2011 10:51 pm 
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lovuian wrote:
Quote:
TPF, perhaps?

TCP

Don't know TCP
but it is interesting that some of these traditionalists don't look on Pope Benedict as the rightful pope :shock:

The two most prominent societies of traditionalist priests - the SSPX and the FSSP - claim to have a presence in 31 and 14 countries respectively. A large share of their members in each case are stationed in France.

Two other societies, the SSPV and CMRI, are based in the United States and also claim a presence in many countries, especially the CMRI.

For purposes of comparison with mainstream Catholic organisations, the Knights of Columbus in the United States are stated to have 1.7 million members, the Neocatechumenal Way is reported to have around 1 million members,[53] and Opus Dei is claimed to have 87,000 members.


Oh yes, I know. I've been studying the long and complicated lineages of the episcopi vagantes for quite awhile now.

TCP


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 Post subject: Re: Berenger Sauniere's Regalia some questions
PostPosted: 04 Oct 2011 11:24 pm 
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what is fascinating is that you find that the traditionalists Catholics viewed the Vatican
as evil when they took away the Tridentine Mass or Vatican II

the church has its factions
Saint Philomena plays a part in this controversy

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 Post subject: Re: Berenger Sauniere's Regalia some questions
PostPosted: 10 Oct 2011 2:08 am 
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Philomena's body was found in the Catacombs
The Catacombs are sunk deep in the earth, 30 to 50 feet below the surface-----and are reached by a steep stairway, They consist of long narrow passages opening out into chambers and shooting off into long branches in a maze of cross streets. In order to avoid detection by the Roman guards. the entrance was carefully concealed. If discovered the arrangement of the underground citadel afforded easy hiding.

The pagans cremated their dead, a custom abhorrent to Christians. Like the Jews they preferred to bury their dead, in the custom of the time, in vaults cut out in the rock, as in the Sepulchre.

The Catacombs are enormous: over 6 million Christians are buried in them, as a result of 300 years of 10 bloody persecutions. There are over 60 Catacombs alone around Rome, while others are scattered over different parts of Italy, France, Greece and Asia Minor

France Catacombs

The Catacombs of Paris or Catacombes de Paris are an underground ossuary in Paris, France. Located south of the former city gate (the "Barrière d'Enfer" at today's Place Denfert-Rochereau), the ossuary holds the remains of about 6 million people[1] and fills a renovated section of caverns and tunnels that are the remains of Paris' stone mines. Opened in the late 18th century, the underground cemetery became a tourist attraction on a small scale from the early 19th century,

Image

PAX TE CUM FI LUMENA
PEACE BE WITH YOU, PHILOMENA
on May 24, 1802 that excavators came on a loculus or chamber that had never been violated
She is Patroness of the living Rosary and therefor has roses in her hair
It was said she had many visions of the Queen of Heaven.

PATRONESS OF THE CHILDREN OF MARY by Pope Pius IX, obtain for me a tender and true devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, Queen of the Most Holy Rosary.

It was during this time that Christianity first appeared in Marseille, as evidenced by catacombs above the harbour and records of Roman martyrs.[15] According to provencal tradition, Mary Magdalen evangelised Marseille with her brother Lazarus.

It seems Marseille also had its catacombs
The Catacombs in Marseilles in the 12 th century were revered shrine of the Black Madonna

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 Post subject: Pyramid
PostPosted: 12 Oct 2011 12:59 am 
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Here`s and upside-down pyramid for you L., it`s from the Gathering on Wall St.

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 Post subject: Re: Berenger Sauniere's Regalia some questions
PostPosted: 12 Oct 2011 2:49 am 
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isn't that interesting Renne

there are three triangles here at the stained glass window at Rennes
they point downward
Image
Image

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Berenger Sauniere's Regalia some questions
PostPosted: 12 Oct 2011 3:05 am 
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the Knights of Columbus have the fascia on their emblem and anchor and the triangles
symbol of France
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America
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Germany
the Human Rights Bill of France
http://amazingdiscoveries.org/albums/p/3/Human-Rights-France.jpg

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 Post subject: Re: Berenger Sauniere's Regalia some questions
PostPosted: 16 Oct 2011 10:55 pm 
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John Vianney was an ardent devotee to Saint Philomena
His body was found incorrupt

He wore the double knotted cord in the shape of a triangle similiar to Sauniere
Image

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Berenger Sauniere's Regalia some questions
PostPosted: 16 Oct 2011 11:15 pm 
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By 1790, the French Revolution forced many loyal priests to hide from the government in order to carry out the sacraments in their parish. In order to attend Mass, even though it was illegal, the Vianneys travelled to distant farms where they could pray in secret. Since the priests risked their lives day by day, Vianney began to look upon priests as heroes. His First Communion lessons were publicly carried out in a public home by three priests. He made his first communion at the age of During the Mass, the windows were covered so that the light of the candles could not be seen from the outside. The secrecy of his Catholic practices continued, especially during his preparation for confirmation.

An example of the "Underground Church"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Vianney

Throughout France there was a saying, "There is a holy man in Ars; go and see him." And people did - between 1830 and 1845 an average of 300 people visited Ars every day to meet with St. John Vianney. He slept only two hours a night so he could serve all the pilgrims, and spent up to 17 hours a day hearing confessions.

The Curé of Ars also ate little, dressed in old clothes and slept on a hard bed. He was said to have been attacked by the Devil regularly, including one famous incident in which the Devil set the saint's bed on fire.
http://www.sacred-destinations.com/france/ars-shrine-of-st-john-vianney

It seems the Devil has a history of attacking Cures in France
this is the lamb on the seven seals found in Ars France

http://www.flickr.com/photos/paterjpm/4803563538/

It looks familiar like Sauniere's lamb and seven seals
on his regalia
Image

there is a difference from Vianney and Saunieres
the Sauniere seven seals don't have the cross on them
which is interesting

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 Post subject: 7 Seals
PostPosted: 18 Oct 2011 1:43 am 
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"The 7 Seals".

The 7 seals of Sauniere don`t have crosses on them, but the

lamb is laying on a big cross.

Image
A portion of the gold plates are sealed as well, they are said to contain
similar information to the Book of Enoch - the world is not ready for it.

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 Post subject: Re: Berenger Sauniere's Regalia some questions
PostPosted: 18 Oct 2011 5:00 am 
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By Golly Renne
your right Sauniere's is lying on the cross
Good spotting

The Revelations


The Book of Enoch is not considered canonical by most churches, although it is by the Ethiopian Orthodox church. According to Western scholars the older sections of the Book of Enoch (mainly in the Book of the Watchers) date from about 300 BC and the latest part (Book of Parables) probably was composed at the end of 1st century BC.[28] It is generally accepted by scholars that the author of the Epistle of Jude was familiar with the Book of Enoch and was influenced by it in thought and diction.[29] Jude 1:14-15 quotes 1Enoch 1:9 which is part of the pseudepigrapha and is also part of the Dead Sea Scrolls [4Q Enoch (4Q204[4QENAR]) COL I 16-18].[30]

The Epistle of Jude, often shortened to Jude, is the penultimate book of the New Testament and is attributed to Jude, the brother of James the Just.

And James the Just was brother to Jesus

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 Post subject: Re: Berenger Sauniere's Regalia some questions
PostPosted: 18 Oct 2011 10:42 am 
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TCP wrote:

Oh yes, I know. I've been studying the long and complicated lineages of the episcopi vagantes for quite awhile now.

TCP



May I ask, what is it that so fascinates you about the Catholic Church?

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 Post subject: Re: Berenger Sauniere's Regalia some questions
PostPosted: 18 Oct 2011 2:12 pm 
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hotspur wrote:
TCP wrote:

Oh yes, I know. I've been studying the long and complicated lineages of the episcopi vagantes for quite awhile now.

TCP



May I ask, what is it that so fascinates you about the Catholic Church?


Its history, and its power.

TCP


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 Post subject: Re: Berenger Sauniere's Regalia some questions
PostPosted: 18 Oct 2011 2:37 pm 
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TCP wrote:
Its history, and its power.
It's power consists of black magic and satanism, I'm shure about that.


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 Post subject: Re: Berenger Sauniere's Regalia some questions
PostPosted: 18 Oct 2011 11:24 pm 
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TCP have you heard of
Saint Vincent of Lérins :wink:

The "Children of this Saint Vincent" from Marseilles and the Abbey of Lerin

It was said to be a place where Saint Patrick from Ireland studied for a year

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 Post subject: Embroideries
PostPosted: 25 Oct 2011 1:38 am 
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Chagall custom embroideries.

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Last edited by Renne on 26 Oct 2011 1:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Berenger Sauniere's Regalia some questions
PostPosted: 25 Oct 2011 4:11 am 
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[img]I spoke with a retired bishop yesterday and asked him about older vestments
("double knotted cord in the shape of a triangle").
He gave a somewhat long exposition of how some of the evolutions happened...
the cord which joins the two sides of the stole was in common usage. This was to keep the stole in its proper place (the lengths the same on both side) and to keep the stole from migrating from its position (seems with some of the more corpulent priests the stoles ended up almost under their armpits if not 'restrained').
It is the stoles that are considered 'preaching' stoles, which are worn over the surplice, cotta or rochet which are connected by the cord.
Stoles which are worn over albs but under chasubles or dalmatics were usually held in place by the cinctures.

The 'pocket' stoles (so called because the ends were so large as to appear to be an attached pocket) were popular during the eras of the Cure d'Ars and Sauniere. With such a heavy end on the stole it really required something to keep it in place, hence the cord between the two sides.

Stoles continued to be made with the connecting cord, not just in the RCC but also in the Church of England.[/img]


Attachments:
stole 2.jpg
stole 2.jpg [ 95.8 KiB | Viewed 2006 times ]
Stole 1.jpg
Stole 1.jpg [ 87.13 KiB | Viewed 2006 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Berenger Sauniere's Regalia some questions
PostPosted: 25 Oct 2011 4:26 pm 
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Gabriele
thank you so much for asking Merci'
Gabriele wrote:
[img]I spoke with a retired bishop yesterday and asked him about older vestments
("double knotted cord in the shape of a triangle").
He gave a somewhat long exposition of how some of the evolutions happened...
the cord which joins the two sides of the stole was in common usage. This was to keep the stole in its proper place (the lengths the same on both side) and to keep the stole from migrating from its position (seems with some of the more corpulent priests the stoles ended up almost under their armpits if not 'restrained').
It is the stoles that are considered 'preaching' stoles, which are worn over the surplice, cotta or rochet which are connected by the cord.
Stoles which are worn over albs but under chasubles or dalmatics were usually held in place by the cinctures.

The 'pocket' stoles (so called because the ends were so large as to appear to be an attached pocket) were popular during the eras of the Cure d'Ars and Sauniere. With such a heavy end on the stole it really required something to keep it in place, hence the cord between the two sides.

Stoles continued to be made with the connecting cord, not just in the RCC but also in the Church of England.[/img]


I am not surprised that the Church of England also used them

the interesting part was the style of the triangle and the tassels meaning ...seems from the Bishop just a matter of convenience to keep the stole together
In your pictures we see they could have been kept together with one cord
Sauniere and the Pope and Saint Vincent opted for the triangular tying of the cord with the tassels
as you see with the pictures of the anchor
Jesus called his disciples fisherman of men
I submit Knots to a fisherman and sailors are important
To me it represents a style passed along by a certain group in the clergy
Sauniere Pope and Saint Vincent adapted this style and promoted it

Interesting note on tassels symbolism
in Freemasonry the tassel
TASSEL consists of a cord with tassels on the ends. It alludes to the Care of Providence which surrounds and keeps us within its protection while we govern our lives by the four cardinal virtues: temperance, fortitude, prudence and justice. The tassel may also represent the Mystic Tie, that sacred bond which unites men of diverse opinions into one band of Brothers.

Freemasonry had infiltrated the church and they knew it
Soon the tassels and triangle disappeared from the style in the future decades
http://www.pagrandlodge.org/mlam/apron/

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 Post subject: Re: Berenger Sauniere's Regalia some questions
PostPosted: 26 Oct 2011 12:26 am 
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This is from Ben Hammotts brilliant work
its the Breastplate of Sauniere's book found at the museum but then removed
Anybody know why?

Image

Tria Sunt Mirabilia: Deus et Homo; Mater et Virgo; Trinus et Unus.'

'Three are the Marvels: God and Man; the Mother and the Virgin; the Three and the One.
Source
http://benhammott.com/sauniere-bookplate.html

The Latin inscription reads: 'Centrum In Trigono Centri'

The English translation is: 'The Centre in the Triangle of the Centre

The BS is on the triangle pointing downward

Sauniere in his regalia
Image

Image
Vincent De Paul

Vianney
Image
Cure of Ars
there is a miracle of wine and flour(bread) connected there

Pope Pius the XI...here is wearing the Triple Tiara
Image

Pope Pius X
Image


Now look at the Saint Sulpice Jacque Olier
Image

he is not wearing the triangle or the tassel but the tassel hangs to the side of the wall

stained glass of Olier
Image

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