Arcadia Discussion Zone

aah!

Am I being blackballed? If so, would anyone care to break ranks and tell me why?

Not at all, John, and thank you for looking at the thread.

Good call on the mahl stick. I looked into these, and they are described as follows on Wiki:



An example of such a self-portrait below, by Catherina van Hemessen, mid-16th century.

Thanks Richard

I'm not spending a great deal of time here nowadays, but when I do visit I can't help feeling uneasy by the number of threads that cease activity as soon as I post something on them. Is it something I've said, have I upset someone?

An interesting thread by the way. You're lucky to live so close to these megaliths; when I lived in the Uk I had to travel many miles in order to visit these sites. Have you visited Carnac yet; if your intrigued by Stonehenge and Averbury, then that place will really confound you. I have located several sites here in Spain that I plan to visit the next time we travel south, if my new Satnav manages to find them, that is.

With regard to the few observations I have made regarding the siting of burial mound above stone circles. I would be very interested to know if you come across a similar arrangements on your travels.

John

Definitely not John, it's been a bit quieter here in general . Nice to have your input as always. How is the website, I've not popped in for a while ?
Regards
Nic

Check out the standing stones south of Formaselle. Not far from Salamanca, at the portuguese border.

Nic

Thanks for the kind words; The winter jobs took longer than expected and family visitors have now returned to the Uk, so its only within the last week or so that managed to turn to the website. I'm not happy with the way I'm introducing this proposal on the "Home" page so I'm playing about with that at the moment, then I can turn my attention to writing up my thesis. I've also reviewed the data I have on these divine radiances, more to check that it hasn't been superceded, but also to consider its presentation. Give it a week or so and then you should start to see it coming together.

Eginolf

Thanks for the pointer. Just checked it out on Google earth, the scenery is stunning and plenty of stone age activity to examine. I would suspect from the granite formations that there may be a few monasteries in the area. I also caught sight of the stone circle just below the village. My sister lives in the hills to the west of Granada, and we have discussed travelling on into Portugal from there, so its definitely on my list of places to visit. Not sure if that corresponds to the wifes list, she has vineyards on hers.

John

If you do so, then don't miss Monsaraz (near the spanish border, up north), a place that has a real Cromlech (Olival da Pega, 14 km from Monsaraz), had a "city of the dead ones", has a castle from the 13th century and a Templar Church (standing isolated on a little hill). It's all there to create a new mystery à la RLC. You can even make Monsaraz (aka Mont Sarras) the place where (according to legend) some guys left the Holy Grail. (Now watch out for Blythe Beige!)
And don't forget: The city once belonged to the Knight Templars.

http://www.superstock.com/stock-photos-images/1848-254183

http://passionsvoyages.free.fr/Portugal/PortugalVilles/X.Monsaraz.htm

There exists a letter that shows that the Knight Templars of Mallorca were warned of the ambush already by 1306.
A few weeks after the raid of October 1307 some Templars from Mallorca took their precious stuff and went to Portugal. They didn't hide these things at Tomar which was their stronghold at the time and thus well known to their enemies. AFAIK they put their things into Monsaraz castle. So you just might take your chances.

Egi, do you have a little more information on this "letter"?---Bill

would be interesting. Considering that it was the 10th month of 1307 before the "surprise" arrests were made I would find it odd that Templars knew about it almost a year prior to it happening. What do I know though

Eginolf

argh; looks like you've beaten me to it.

Thanks for the Monsaraz reference, and do please keep them coming. Your right about the place, a quick glance reveals a Carnac-like landscape with its many dolmen. I did find one archaeological reference that touches upon the use of these tombs(?) http://nia-era.academia.edu/MiguelLago/ ... _Alentejo_
I know we joke, and I haven't had time to explore your reference, but I wonder if you know how interesting it might be that you cite a continued focus upon the dead in this area during the middle ages, and almost in the same sentence you mention a connection with the mythical Holy Grail?

John

Arnault de Castelvi, the Templars' chief in Palma, got a letter from his collegue Garcia Ferrandez where Ferrandez informed Castelvi to sell all posessions and deposit the money with some good friends as he (Ferrandez) is afraid the order might get destroyed soon. That very letter today is to be found in the "Archivo de la Corona de Aragon" in Barcelona, designation "templarios 18".

I'm sorry but after quick check I found out that the cromlech of Monsaraz/Xerez is an articifial one and was created in the 70's when people collected these stones and put them around that menhir.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cromlech_von_Xerez
>>>
The smaller stones were found in 1968 at a deeper position and placed around the large menhir, then later moved to its present site, to protect them from flooding by the Alqueva reservoir.

Of course I know.
According to the grail legend Perceval, Bors and Galahad went to Sarras to hide the holy grail there.



... and one for your wife:
they've got delicious wines at Reguangos de Monsaraz.

BTW.
two more portuguese cromlechs:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almendres

and then this grave:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/34259015@N03/5081090422/in/photostream

Thanks for that Egi, but to say I am challenged in research would be an understatement (as I'm sure you know), and not understanding spanish doesn't help. I guess what I'm saying is I cannot find this letter , and I would be eternally grateful if you could supply a link. The letter itself being in spanish should not be a problem.---Bill

Hi Egi

Thanks for the heads up on that. My interest was actually in the archaeology uncovered at Olival da Pega, plus the many other dolmen in the region http://www.megalithic.co.uk/article.php?sid=13848

Great stuff

John

I'm sorry I don't have that letter nor a link. You might have to ask german author Gottfried Kirchner who quoted it in his book on Templars in Mallorca and showed the letter in his TV documentary on the same subject ("Terra-X").

If you go to the website of the "Archivo de la Corona de Aragon"...you can search through reams of registros & documents to your heart's content...i gave it a go yesterday but soon realised life is too short and got back to something more interesting ...obviously it would have been easier if i even spoke a word of Spanish and actually knew what i was looking for.

I don't have the book, but you might be able to trace it from this documentary -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn87-M0kNSU

17 minutes, 17 seconds in, I think... and some great footage of Templar sites in Spain.

Not sure what this discussion is doing in the Windmill Hill one...sorry Windmillers.

Yep, that's the one. Great you found it. I saw that on TV years ago. It starts with the dragon cave where in 1329 five men went down to look for the dragon or whatever. It was 22 (!) years after the bust of the order, and these 5 men who went down the cave were on a mission: They had the order by the governour of the island to look for the Templars' treasure.

a double 17, no coincidence.

No moderator here anyway. So what.

I had pictured you as being fluent in at least 5 languages

I think I got it, thanks! Now I have to talk to a friend that speaks spanish.

In the film they didn't use that very letter. You can see that this paper that Kirchner is holding in his hands and where he's reading from is not dating from the 14th century. And there's only the right upper corner be shown, not the whole piece of paper.

Earlier on today, for no particular reason, I walked a 15 mile sort-of-radius around the base of Windmill Hill, thus seeing it from every angle. It wasn't a proper circle, because I actually went up onto the hill as well, but I basically went west from Avebury, so the hill was to my north, then north up to the top of the hill, then out the other side, then headed east up onto the Ridge Way, and followed that south and then west back into Avebury. The hill is very anonymous from most angles, but has real prominence from the north side, west of the little village of Winterbourne Monkton, from where it appears as a long escarpment. The hill itself is covered in a carpet of wild flowers at this time of year.



Passing through Winterbourne Monkton, which is essentially at the foot of the hill, and the nearest settlement, I visited the church of St Mary Magdalene.



It's been much rebuilt, but the chancel dates from the early 12th century. The village was aquired by monks from Glastonbury Abbey in 928 AD.

Some more shots of the interior, including these massive tree trunks that used to support a belfry ...



... the tiling on part of the floor ...



... and this stained glass window depicts the saint to whom the church is dedicated.

Very nice Richard, thanks for sharing your walk.

Did you also see the stones in the graveyard?
http://www.megalithic.co.uk/article.php?sid=10045

The font is early Norman, with what may be the figure of a "Mother Goddess" on, (picture at the bottom of the page linked to above) and also here -

http://www.thechurchphotographer.co.uk/ ... alene.html

Also I've a feeling the village appears as a plot location in a book, perhaps one by George Sims?

Unfortunately I didn't pay much attention to the font. I need to start looking stuff up before I go to it.

I have noticed, in Avebury village itself, and in other villages thereabouts, various items of pre-Christian iconography, like heads of Green Men above doors and suchlike, many images of animals, even a little stone circle in someone's garden in East Kennett, as if the area reflects some superficial or not so superficial, conscious or not so conscious melding of old and new religions.

Btw, this is the other stained glass window in Winterbourne Monkton church.



Anyone local-ish thinking of visiting Avebury at the moment, be warned that it was absolutely heaving with people yesterday, as you might expect on a Saturday in August, but once out of the stone circle and into the open country beyond I saw barely a soul in five hours, just the occasional walker or tractor driver. Bit quieter when I got back there late afternoon, and lovely coming down off the Ridge Way into a sun drenched village, listening to the soft coo-ing of the pigeons in the little copses around the henges. There's a lot more to Avebury than its standing stones, particularly the Ridge Way immediately above and the adjacent sarsen fields on Fyfield Down.