Arcadia Discussion Zone

BS paid Giscard in either cash or wine...i can't quite remember.

There is some evidence of this - the other church mentioned above, the fact that these were standard items from a local catalogue. I don't ever remember seeing tartan displayed in a station of the cross over this way, ditto the moon in the 14th. Perhaps it's in keeping with European traditions.

BS excavated within the church, is said to have found scrolls and parchments, dug up the cemetery, defaced tombstones, decorated his church inside and out in a provocative manner, undertook extensive building works financed with funds of unknown provenance and consorted with the high and mighty and the esoterically well connected.

Sauniere did strange things for a country bumkin abbe - perhaps he was just a strange man?

Perhaps he was, hottie.....perhaps he was. Now don't you go blowing the raison d'etre for all these poor folks posting their lil' hearts away....

Don't think anything I say around here will have any people tossing out any babies with the bath water.

(Least of all our mutual friend, the Mangey Marsupial from Mandurup. )

But it was Giscard he ordered the "diable" from, yes?

TCP

Well, as I've said, the striped pattern on the baby's diaper sure doesn't look like any tartan I've ever seen before. Isn't tartan usually plaid? And as for the presence of the moon I'd refer back to Matthew's and Mark's gospels.



So we've all been told. Some of it might even be accurate to a point.



Not to my mind, but then my own observations aren't exactly mainstream on forums such as this one.

TCP

Nevertheless, and for the sake of argument, let us assume the possibility that FBS was just a maverick cleric, (not necessarily only a grave robber, although this seems likely), so as to expand discussion, boy I'm off topic again, doing well today.
What, TCP, have you deduced from you own non-mainstream observations to disprove this, or are you not at liberty to divulge?
Were we not to dissect other villages and their environs in Europe around the same time with the same perspicacity, would we not perhaps turn up similar intriguing events and circumstances?

Does no one here read the fine articles given us by Andrew? Because of one of them, I detoured so I could visit a place he mentioned and it was a very worthwhile detour.
I call your attention to his article on Curiosities of Louis de Coma and his Stations of the Cross...and since he provides a wealth of detail, follow the link below:
http://www.andrewgough.co.uk/stations.html

The church isn't that old but what I found interesting was the Templar crosses on the doors, I'll try to attach the photo I took. The photos of the Stations that Andrew took are far superior to mine so enjoy those.

On the subject of St Joseph, if you do a google image search for St Joseph statue, you'll see at least a third of them show him with the child.

Are you sure they are TEMPLAR crosses?? The Templars used many variations on the cross patee.
Yes, I read that article, and didn't bother to reread it, although the pictures are good.
Take a closer look at stations 3 and 13, they are BOTH FEET, not a foot and a hand.
And why shouldn't there be a torch in a tomb?....It's dark in a tomb for Chrissake!!
I found too many long bows in the article to lend it too much credence I'm afraid.
But I gather you are in part supporting my assertation that if one looks deeply enough, there may be many RLC's and BS's to find.

They look suspiciously like Crosses of Malta to me...

TCP

Speaking of de Coma's Station 13, I am guessing that the plant is Mandrake, which is historically associated as growing beneath hanged men.



Photograph by Andrew Gough

This is a somewhat interesting note:

"Mandrake was also known to have narcotic properties and in Antiquity was often used as an anaesthetic for surgical procedures. The ancients were well aware of the fact that this powerful little plant could be dangerous if taken in excessive quantities and that the sleep it helped to induce could become a permanent state of being. However, since in those days safe and effective anaesthetics were not so easy to come by they felt compelled to experiment with the most promising plants they knew. Mandrake, along with Poppy, Thornapple, Henbane and Belladonna produced good results if one could get the dosage just right. The preferred method of administration was to make a concoction of some or all of these plants and let the patient inhale the vapours via a sponge, which if done properly, would induce a profound sleep, so the surgeon could go about his business of cutting and sawing off limbs."

http://www.sacredearth.com/ethnobotany/ ... ndrake.php

Nothing that I can prove or disprove vis-a-vis Sauniere, that's the rub. What was going on in that region at that time to fund Carlist operatives hiding out in the Pyrenees seems (to my mind) a good fit with some of Sauniere's "behaviors", but it's circumstantial evidence at best.



Outside of France?

TCP

Yes, of course some of us do. I've actually had a very keen interest in Fr. Louis since 2004, I just think a lot of well-meaning people are barking up the wrong tree in his case.

TCP

I don't see (or more honestly, know) why not. There are others far more knowledgable than me to comment on that. I'm not a trained historian.
France does appear to be "in the right place at the right time" for intrigue of this sort, thinking of the politics and religious aspects. Like a melting pot I guess.
I'm easily out of my depth here, and look forward to informed comments.

Did no one find this at all interesting? I was quite struck by it given that the mandrake sponge reference was completely separate from anything having to do with the Crucifixion. Recall that Jesus died (unexpectedly and strangely early) IMMEDIATELY after being offered a sponge. I know the drugged sponge thing has come up before as a theory, but I haven't ever seen a mandrake representation (that I know of) in a Crucifixion scene and wasn't previously aware that it was used as an anaesthetic, or commonly applied with a sponge.

Thanks, Sheila, good stuff. I see he references "The Passover Plot" which I think was my original exposure to the drugging scenario years ago. One has to wonder, if there is any truth to the theory, whether the spear thrust was a big "woopsie" as far as the end result. The inclusion of the mandrake in the de Coma panel is probably a reference to the mandrake growing at the foot of the gallows meme, rather than the sponge scenario, but who knows...I'm going to try to keep my eyes out for it in other Crucifixion works to see if it was more common than I realize.

I'm also of course still wondering what the Mandrake roots represent in the Reni painting below:

I assume the lady in question is so full of grief that she takes root of Mandrake....used for procuring rest and sleep for those in continued pain, also in melancholy and convulsions...Mandrake was used in Pliny's days as an anaesthetic for operations, a piece of the root being given to the patient to chew before undergoing the operation...and it expels demons from sick persons, as the demons cannot bear either its smell or its presence.

"Little Gallows Man"...isn't he supposed to grow wherever a hanged man spills his seed? Which I'd imagine would be an involuntary response to death by asphyxiation, though I can already see how some will spin it...

TCP

Perhaps she's Mary Mandragora:



(No! It's Saint John!!! )

TCP

Yes, it is.There maybe some statutes or paintings of St.Joseph without Christ, but most incldue the Christ child.St.Joseph is also shown with lilies.I have even seen a painting or two with St.Joseph with Jesus as a little boy in a workshop,I presume Joseph's were he did carpentry work.

Did Joseph only have one son?

it appears in the Bible he may have had other sons

One of them James the Just became leader of the Church of Jerusalem

not Peter

Joseph plays an interesting part ...early on ...his genealogy is important his Bloodline
and yet Jesus is God's son

Joseph is a carpenter (mason)...he is a Builder....after the beginning stories of Jesus's birth
Joseph drops off the radar screen...but his children remain

and they share that lineage touted as the lineage of kings