Arcadia Discussion Zone

Yep Paddy Awesome job

Habsburg connection
wasn't it De Sede who brought up the Habsburg meeting with Sauniere

Abbe Emile Hoffet was trained at the seminary school of La Colline Inspiree

A quote from a wise man

http://www.andrewgough.co.uk/lastmessage2.html
We have talked about Sion and Rosemerta ...Rose Mother

at the Tower of the sea
Notre Dame de Jérusalem, La Tour de Mare

Cocteau paints the Rose Virgin or Rose Mother

Two and two make four at last.

Well done Lovuian!

Notice the other rich symbolism - the hint of a dove in the base of the altar - the cross that thinks its a sword - or is it the sword in the stone?
And why should he have depicted the flowers in the way he has?

I am desperately looking around for the sevens but cannot see them.

Find the sevens Lovuian ....... find the sevens.

Only one slight, teeny-tiny problem, Lov - it's "Rosmerta" (not Rosemerta) and her name doesn't mean "rose mother".

TCP

No problem TCP
she holds the Cornucopia of Roses and fruits of the Earth


In Gallo-Roman religion, Rosmerta was a goddess of fertility and abundance, her attributes being those of plenty such as the cornucopia

She is a Mother
Our Lady of Lourdes
symbolism

TCP it is the symbolism of her that reflects the Mother...Fertility
*ro- (most) and *smert- (provider/carer) with the feminie ending -a giving us 'great provider/great carer' as an interpretation. Both interpretations fit-in with Rosmerta's iconography (bearing a purse and cornucopia) as well as her association with sacred water held by her patera (healing) and her association with hospitals.



She is standing by water that heals and roses at her feet

She is the Great Provider does that sound better for you

Rose Mother sounds better to me

And where did you get the idea that her cornucopia holds roses? Or is that your own add-on?

I'll bet you're really good at word association games, Lov. There's dozens of other goddesses you could have linked to Rosmerta and yet you choose the Virgin Mary, with whom, other than being female, Rosmerta shares no archetypal similarities.

TCP

Virgin Mary? for Our Lady of Lourdes
I don't think Bernadette said her name was Virgin Mary

She said she was the Immaculate conception....she is without original sin All Pure Mother of God
but she was stepping on roses

I'll let you read my article TCP
http://www.ufodigest.com/article/new-orleans-rosemerta-roseline-and-our-lady-sion

She is a 'flower queen"

but I will quote Professor Steve's article
Lov ya Seeker!!!
I have recently, that the name of several places in France - Rhedae/Rennes, Rouen/Rhodom, Rodez/Rhodes, are derived from the Greek Island of Rhodes, whose name itself comes from the rose-goddess Rhoda. Contemporary texts say that the red-haired Celtic "Redones" or "rose people" (Rutheni/Rhodanim) setlled both Rennes in the Midi and Rennes in Brittany - the name derives from the ethnic group. It is said that the resident goddess of Mount Sion-Vaudemont, the "other Sion" of the "priory of Sion" in Switzerland, is Rosemertha - the Rose mother. Interestingly, one interpretation of the King Arthur legends is that "Arthur" or "Ursus" was really Riothamus, a Dark Age Celt ruler of a "thalassocracy" that spanned Brittany in France and Cornwall in England. Many of the places near Breton Rennes are associated with Arthur and the Grail legends, and many of the Breton kings had Judaic names. And some derive Riothamus' name from... Joseph of Arimathea, the supposed bearer of the Grail to Glastonbury.

http://www2.fiu.edu/~mizrachs/poseur3.html

I can see how Steve came up with it and it makes very good sense
I think Jean Cocteau supposed Grandmaster of Sion may have thought so too
thus the chapel picture and I love Ren man's point about the sword and the stone

From My article
A statue of Rosemertha was uncovered at Sion. It is thought to be connected to Gnostic sexual rites. She was goddess of fertility. Gerard de Sede connected Rosemertha to the devotees of the Black Virgin of Avioth. Shepherds at Avioth found a statue of the Virgin in a thorn bush. The Virgin of Avioth was said to bring still born children who died momentarily alive so they could receive baptism. The children were then buried on the eastern part of the church. Rosemerta(Rose Mother) was attended by a group of dead children. "Rennes-les-Bains is located precisely on the Zero Meridian,(Roseline) which connects Saint-Sulpice in Paris". Saint Roseline was sister to Hélion de Villeneuve was a French-bornGrand Masterof the Knights of St. John. Roseline died on January 17,1329 the same day as Berenger Sauniere’s heart attack on January 17 1917 . St Roseline was said to have great power over demons and her feast day is January 17. Saint Roseline is connected with a miracle, in which the bread was going to distribute to the poor was transformed into a bunch of roses. In Priory documents January 17 is when the “Children of Vincent DePaul” were created in 1681.

I'm just relaying connections made also by others TCP
I'm sorry you don't get it

If this were nothing but a word association game you'd have won hands down, Lov. Somehow I don't think Bernadette thought the "Immaculate Conception" was anyone but the Virgin Mary. Gérard de Sède was a surrealist and "free associations" are their game. As for Steve, I well remember the discussions we had years ago on the previous "Arcadians" list regarding this very theory of his and I believe I'm on record as having disagreed vehemently with some of his word associations, but I'd have to let him speak for himself if he's up for defending them. A rose is a rose is a rose, as long as one is only speaking/reading English I guess.

You should hang out on some of the Magdalene forums where Starbird holds court, she'd love you.

TCP

Hey you asked ....Once a Maghead always a Maghead
I have great respect for Starbird...

Gerard de Sede was a Surrealist and I believe Cocteau was one too
Our Lady of Sion with roses around her

Yes, Cocteau was a Surrealist. "Our Lady of Sion" however is not the only Marian image associated with roses.

TCP

Our Lady of Lourdes had yellow roses at her feet. Our Lady of La Sallette had a crown of roses on her head. Our Lady of the Rosary is the term used to call Our Lady of Fatima which the word rosary means a garland of roses. Roses are important ancient symbol for a goddess Rosemerta and the Marian apparitions of Our Lady. Our Lady of Knock in Ireland wore a rose.

In Europe many churches are built on ancient pagan temples and example is hill of Sion-Vaudémont. It is the hill of Sion where pagans came to pay honor to the goddess of fertility Rosemertha (Rose Mother). In the 10th century it became devoted to the Virgin Marie.

the connection of the cornucopia ...is it is the CUP of abundance and grace
it never empties...like the Holy GRAIL

You can make all the "rose" associations with Rosmerta you want to, and you'll still be wrong.

BTW, a cornucopia isn't a cup - cornu copiae literally means "horn of plenty".

TCP

P.S. The Feast of Our Lady of the Rosary dates to the late 16th century, while the apparition at Fátima took place in 1917. Another fail.

TCP

TCP
don't you have somethin to do like go get a Valentine's card for your valentine


to tell you how interesting this is
look at the Swedish goddess


In Norse mythology, Sif is a goddess associated with earth.
The Bayeux Tapestry (1070s) shows a scene of feasting before Harold Godwinson embarks for Normandy. Five figures are depicted as sitting at a table in the upper story of a building, three of them holding drinking horns.


The title of Our Lady of the Rosary is also sometimes used in reference to the same apparition (although it was first used in 1208 for the reported apparition in the church of Prouille), because the children related that the apparition specifically identified herself as the "Lady of the Rosary". It is also common to see a combination of these titles, i.e. Our Lady of the Rosary of Fátima (Portuguese: Nossa Senhora do Rosário de Fátima).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_F%C3%A1tima

Our Lady of the Rosary is the title received by the reported Marian apparition to Saint Dominic in 1208 in the church of Prouille, in which the Virgin Mary gave the Rosary to him

The most generous donor was Simon IV de Montfort, leader of the Albigensian Crusade, and others followed his example.
West end of the convent church as it was rebuilt in the 19th century

The house thus established was intended partly as a refuge for women who had previously lived in Cathar religious houses but had formally converted to Catholicism, and partly the first established base of operations for Dominic and his followers. About twelve women, including Raymonde Claret, were the first nuns of Prouille


Cathar heresy which included the belief that Mary Magdalene and Jesus were "lovers."

Leo XIII claims that the Cathars were defeated not by human force, but by Mary's Rosary:

Le tour de Sorciere is not yet built when Poussin travelled through there on the way to Rome.





Teniers got his image from the collection of Archduke Leopold Wilhelm of Austria. Teniers was in charge of it.

Teniers was a member of the Guild of St Luke.

It was Archduke Leopold Wilhelm of Austria who found the 300 gold bees (Tears of Ra) in the grave of the Merovingian King Childeric II.



Napoleon (Bonaparte) had them sown to his coronation robe when he was crowned Emperor.


Interesting staff angles n'est-ce pas? ------ 36° Now what has angles of 36°?

Ouroborus throne too. Well it was he who stole the Templar documents from the Vatican.

Just think if it wasn't for The Thief of Europe we wouldn't know what the Pope's Seneschals did to the Templars.

I like this comment



PS
Whilst we are speaking about Bees, two French towns have bees in their crests : La Meilleraye de Bretagne, (a place heavily associated with King Arthur, the Holy Grail and Merlin). La Meilleraye de Bretagne is 20km south of Chateaubriand. The other Bee village is Mazamet, next to the village of Hautpoul.

Melleray Abbey (La Meilleraye de Bretagne)
A Cistercian Abbey founded by Foulques de Anjou

King of Jerusalem and one of the nine knights attached to Hughes de Payen. Fulk was (possibly) a Knights Templar Grand Master

Grand father of Henry II of England through his daughter Matilda.

In case anyone brings it up that Knights Templar were celibate. They weren't celibate they merely took a vow of chastity, something different altogether.

The problem is that this Sion:
http://photo-genic.photoshelter.com/ima ... KaYUxFwo_A
is not Plantard's Mount Sion (near Annemasse and Saint-Julien-en-Genevois), which is here:
http://g.co/maps/uwgdx

A bit off topic, but I thought I'd post this to place Mazamet and Hautpoul in some perspective for people who don't know the area.

Regards
Nic

Notre Dame d'Hautpoul - Reine de Lumiere - The White Lady of Legends

40kms north of Carcassonne.

The Cathar redoubt was all but levelled by the unstoppable Simon de Montfort in 1212.

But you don't want to know about the Cathars as Isaac Ben Jacob doesn't mention them.

So have hundreds of other artists. Cocteau didn't invent the association.

TCP

P.S. "Rosmerta" doesn't mean "Rose Mother"...

Poor example. Fulk was only associated with the Order for a brief period of pilgrimage from 1119 to 1121, after which time he became one of their patrons and subsidized them. This was well before their rule had been established, and there were married men among the original nine. Fulk was married to his first wife until her death in 1126.

TCP