Arcadia Discussion Zone

In the wider scheme vis-a-vis the Old Catholics, yes - but really these weren't even peripheral issues to the American "merry pranksters" (all of whom were married, but it wasn't their issue).



In a manner of speaking, yes - sort of. The Americans were re-working certain details of an historical narrative into their own myth of Templar survival, details that Plantard (thanks to Chérisey) conscripted for his own myth. Essentially, they didn't want Plantard in the game at all, so he stole their ball.



The Dead Sea Scrolls really didn't have anything at all to do with what the Americans were creating. They were working with a medieval narrative and tweaking it to their own purposes.



Gee, that's big of him.

TCP

Isn't this their way ...after what is it millions being infected with HIV in Africa and all over
He decides to change his position
but this is a perfect example of that the Vatican makes a mistake
he doesn't admit it but he changes it
the issue of infallibility is a major one

In the BBC Timewatch “History of a Mystery”, Jean-Luc Chaumeil said that Pierre Plantard found connections like other people found shamrocks.

Shamrocks
and then TCP
at Knock the hands of Magdalene at Rennes


Shamrocks and Ireland ....Knock is connected to the Marian visions

TCP


I agree Plantard was out ...he knew it... didn't like it and stole their ball
A wee bit of a war goeth on
North verses South

from what I see TCP the Americans leaned toward getting rid of celibacy...the "merry pranksters" rhymes with banksters
were married....yes

It is written that Peter was married...this fact has been around a LONG time
There are those prophecies of Fatima Salette Lourdes Knock...Malachy
Leo XIII own vision
all leaned for the Church to see infiltration by evil and possible destruction

The Marian legacy....goes back way back

A roundabout way of saying that Plantard never found an "enigma" he didn't try to insert himself into.



Among these men, celibacy really wasn't an issue, or a motivation. They were all about creating illusory "alternatives" - royal claimants, nobility, chivalric orders, churches, apostolic succession, even popes. Essentially re-writing history in order to place themselves in it. Just like Plantard, although they were very selective about who they let into their circle and who they didn't. As I've said before, it was an odd melange of the genuine and the fake. Some were just a little too fake and they didn't want that element in their midst.



It does indeed. One might say it pre-dates Mary herself.

TCP

...so how long does it take before people realise...and remember....that Mary was the church's substitute.

For goddesses, faeries and spirits...?

TCP

for the Queen of Heaven.

Rhea, Cybele, Astarte, Inanna, Ishtar, Aset...the list is pretty long.

well for the Voodoo
http://www.mysticvoodoo.com/yemaya.htm
it would be Yemaya
Yemaya is the Creation Goddess, and is often depicted as a mermaid. She is associated with the moon, ocean, and female mysteries. As such, she is the governess of the household and of matters pertaining to women including childbirth, conception, childhood safety, love, and healing. Extremely compassionate and merciful, Yemaya rules the dreamtime, oversees the Moon, deep secrets, ancient wisdom, salt water, sea shells, and the collective unconscious.

According to legend, Yemayá originated in Egypt as the Goddess Isis. It is thought by some that the Nubian slaves who returned to different parts of Africa may have brought Isis with them under the new name of Yemayá

...connection to New Orleans Voodoo
Erzulie
Goddess of love, art, and sex, each has additional areas of life which is theirs to defend and assist. Erzulie is three in aspect: she can be Erzulie Freda, a virgin goddess likened to the Virgin Mary; Erzulie Dantor, loa of jealousy and passion; or La Siren, a personification of the sea and goddess of motherhood.
Erzulie Dantor

Erzulie Dantor is the Voodoo goddess of love, romance, art, jealousy, passion, & sex. Erzulie Dantor is the patron loa of lesbian women, fierce protector of women experiencing domestic violence and patron loa of New Orleans. Beauty, love, and sensuality are her Creations. Emotions are what link her to the endless reservoir of universal creativity. Erzulie Dantor offers to you protection and possibilities beyond the imagination. Erzulie Dantor is a mulatto woman who is often portrayed as the Black Madonna, or the Roman Catholic "Saint Barbara Africana". She has tribal scars on her cheek, and is considered heterosexual because she has children, but she is also the patron loa of lesbian women. Thus, she loves women fiercely, and will defend them to the death. She loves knives and is considered the protector of newly consecrated Voodoo priests and priestesses, as well as of women and children who are victims of domestic violence, and women who have been betrayed by a lover. She is highly respected and much feared due to her Woman Power. Most Haitian women serve Dantor, and she is also the patron loa of New Orleans and so she is served by many there as well.


Christopher Columbus named the Virgin Islands after Ursula and her virgins.

Racial memory is a concept in Jungian psychology. Racial memories are posited memories, feelings and ideas inherited from our ancestors as part of a "collective unconscious"

TCP


Odd Melange of the genuine and fake
well said because that makes it more convincing

And these guys were wealthy who would pay big money for those things genuine to help their cause

What did western Europeans care for Rhea, Astarte, Inanna, Ishtar and Aset? Short answer - not a whit. If the church was plying Mary to the Gauls, Gaels, and Goths as a mother goddess substitute it would have been one of their own, not an import.

TCP

Sheila
St Ann
(Inanna)
is very special at New Orleans
Catholic women in New Orleans: "Saint Ann, Saint Ann, give me a man."
Matrimony
At the St Ann Shrine there is a imitation of Lourdes Grotto
No records exist that shed any light on why the Lourdes grotto was replicated at the Saint Ann Shrine. But several possibilities might be explored. From one perspective, the archconfraternity of Saint Ann invoked the healing power of that shrine in a city historically ravaged by diseases such as yellow fever and in great need of Lourdes' principal blessing-health. Duplicating this famous grotto might also have been intended as a practical method for increasing devotion to Saint Ann by tapping into popular Marian devotion, which had continued to swell since 1830 when she appeared at Rue Bac in Paris. Not to be discounted is the fact that the replica also recreated a French sacred spot in a city that has never lost sight of its French colonial past. Of course, Saint Ann herself is closely connected to France, her bones having been reputedly discovered in Brittany.

All over America are imitation Lourdes Grottoes similar to the one Sauniere made


Armand Hammer
His generosity and diplomacy were recognized around the world, and by the time he died, Hammer had won the Soviet Union's Order of Friendship of People, the U.S. National Medal of Arts (1987), France's Legion of Honor, Italy's Grand Order of Merit, Sweden's Royal Order of the Polar Star, Austria's Knight Commander's Cross, Pakistan's Hilal-i-Quaid-Azam Peace Award, Israel's Leadership Award, Venezuela's Order of Andrés Bello, Mexico's National Recognition Award, Bulgaria's Jubilee Medal, and Belgium's Order of the Crown.[21] Hammer hungered for a Nobel Peace Prize, and was repeatedly nominated for one, including by Menachem Begin,[22] but never won.

In 1986, Forbes Magazine estimated his net worth at $200 million

James Jesus Angleton, head of counterintelligence for the Central Intelligence Agency, said that the CIA has received evidence from the British secret service that Hammer laundered money for the Soviets.

The Codex Leicester (also briefly known as Codex Hammer) is a collection of largely scientific writings by Leonardo da Vinci. The codex is named after Thomas Coke, later created Earl of Leicester, who purchased it in 1717. Of Leonardo's 30 scientific journals, the Codex may be the most famous of all.

The Codex provides a rare insight into the inquiring mind of the definitive Renaissance artist, scientist and thinker as well as an exceptional illustration of the link between art and science and the creativity of the scientific process.

The Codex was purchased in 1980 by wealthy industrialist and art collector Armand Hammer from the Leicester estate, and renamed the Codex Hammer[1].

In 1994, Bill Gates bought it at an auction for US$30.8 million, making it the most expensive book ever sold, and he subsequently renamed it the Codex Leicester[2].

The Codex is put on public display once a year in a different city around the world. In 2004, it was exhibited in the Château de Chambord,

Charmboard what a coincidence

House of the Salamander

Oooh...could someone please tell me what that E/F symbol is next to the salamanders please. Only if you know that is...no guessing....i've had plenty of those

thanks.

hmm..i won't ask are you sure.....but bugger, that's boring....so why is it embellished with clanky bits and nooses/running bowlines then?
The only thing i know about him was that he ordered the horrific massacre of the Waldensians at Mérindol.

och, i'm going to have to do a bit of reading up then aren't i.

apologies for being off piste but isn't the knotted rope a sign of the Cordeliers?

...i saw a painting of him breathing in Da Vinci's last dying gasp...so much to read up on i can't keep pace....it was the rope i was interested in btw.

Quau canto. Soun mau encanto.

Maybe it is a good moment to talk about Las Encantados in their deep underground caves.


"On raconte qu'il existait autrefois dans le pays des êtres surnaturels, des Fées qu'on appelait et qu'on appelle encore "Las Encantados / Les Enchanteresses"; le jour elles se tenaient mystérieusement cachées dans leur demeures souterraines, dans des cavernes profondes que recelaient les flancs de la montagne qui porte leur nom. Ces Cavernes communiquaient, par un passage secret, avec les souterrains du Château de Rennes, bâti à Proximité de cette montagne"

"La montagne de Las Encantados domine au midi le territoire de Couiza, et à l'Est touche au village de Rennes. De nombreuses galeries, les unes à ciel ouvert, les autres fouillées dans le sous-sol, en ont déchiqueté les entrailles. Le percement de ces galeries a souvent mis à découvert des grottes des cavernes plus ou moins spacieuses, et dont la création s'explique par la filtration permanente des eaux pluviales".

"Cette Légende se rattache à l'existence sur le sol, à une époque très reculée, d'un peuple troglodyte, de race Gallo Celtique"."Les têtes blanches du pays affirment l'avoir entendu raconter par leurs pères et grands pères, qui la tenaient de leurs aïeux, et toujours sans variante, tout d'une pièce, comme une tradition sacrée."

"L'Encantado fait parti du ruisseau des couleurs où Bérenger Saunière allait jouer enfant et où plus tard il allait chercher des pierres sur une parcelle achetée au nom de Marie Denarnaud."



sourced from:
Louis Fédié: "Etude historique sur le Haut-Razès" pages 45-47-48.
Claire Corbu and Antoine Captier: "L'héritage de l'abbé Saunière".

My goodness Rodger
you have such potential to be a fantastic storyteller

but this just doesn't cut it

Business partner OMG! man ...

Now I ask you does this man look like his business partner
Rodger you know better tsk tsk tsk
Cmon tell the girl

Now Sheila outshines you in the Romantic department
It must be a ying/yang thing


Sheila ...I love it

The Enchanters who lived in the caves
now the French can tell a story

There is a bunch of things going on in that room at Chamboard Sheila
and the power of stones ...isn't it grand Sauniere might have believed in it or maybe Marie was the one who did
either way it has a Romantic feel to it

Ha!...since i am the least romantic person i have ever met...that made me laugh, nice one
...breathing in the man's dying breath was not necessarily a romantic gesture...and btw if Roger says they were business parteners then i would get reading up on what is beyond common knowledge because when pearls are cast they should be gathered & polished.

Not sexy enough, Sheila? Roger's right, it's "F" for François. He built the place.

TCP

don't quote sexy at me matey...i just meant it was not what i was interested in that's all.

If François is getting a snoot of anything in this rendition, it's Leonardo's beard.

TCP

Isn't that the way it always is around here though? Things look so "interesting" until the truth is revealed. Reminds me of the opening scene in the Da Vinci Code film.

TCP

it also looks like old LdV is having the last breathe squeezed out of him by the weight on his chest.

TCP...you should know why i'm interested in the F...and i thought it was an E btw...you know 'cos i've asked about it many a time...and to see a potential candidate with nooses et al. piqued my interest.

i've never seen it...i don't watch fiction films.

Se canto, que cante
Canto pas per iéu,
Canto per ma mio.
Qu'es aluen de iéu...

(Sorry, I just felt like singing...)



Oh, good! I'm all ears!

TCP

This dear be the Clan Douglas Crest


Your Scottish background should be tingling away
salamanders as amphibians.

they are NOT REPTILES

Leonardo da Vinci (1452–1519) wrote the following on the salamander: "This has no digestive organs, and gets no food but from the fire, in which it constantly renews its scaly skin. The salamander, which renews its scaly skin in the fire,—for virtue."[13] Later, Paracelsus (1493–1541) suggested that the salamander was the elemental of fire

The salamander became a symbol of enduring faith which triumphs over the fires of passion. It was the badge of Francis I of France, with the motto, "I nourish [the good] and extinguish [the bad]."

* gnomes, earth elementals
* undines, water elementals
* sylphs, air elementals
* salamanders, fire elementals.
The fairy folk is connected to the Sidhe




are a supernatural race comparable to the fairies or elves. They are said to live underground in the fairy mounds, across the western sea, or in an invisible world that coexists with the world of humans. This world is described in "The Book of Invasions" (recorded in the Book of Leinster) as a parallel universe in which the aos sí walk amongst the living.