Arcadia Discussion Zone

There are specific names for the hand "poses" for prayer - one way with fingers interlaced, the other with palms pressed together and fingers extended. Can't think of them off the top of my head, but in art they are meant to convey different things. One is plaintive/reflective and the other is reverential, but the actual terms for the poses escape me at the moment. I'll have to dig it up. I offered the info to Starbird once and she read me the riot act for it.

TCP

this is the Magdalene in Ireland
What is interesting the vandalism done to the statues there at Knock
Mother Mary's hands were broken and this statue the figures broken

there are other examples
if TCP or you Roger have a written analysis of it
please send it my way

who knows someone like a Irish historian maybe writing an article for Andrew and using my pictures soon
you never know
his theory is pretty cool but I don't want raid on his parade so to speak

but hey lets hear your guys

Well Bruce, have any of your "friends" ever told you that the movie Bloodline is based on a false premise? That maybe you have to re-examine and start again.

And that you might not have had any intention of 'pillaging' a tomb but that is exactly what you did and had you known a least a little about the True Magdelene theory than you would have known this from the get-go.

Why did you not consider going to the Police?

Why did you not question that it was FLAT OUT WRONG to poke and prod a body(or see evidence of someone doing it) that you knew nothing about and did nothing about except make it the focus of your movie?

So you "Virtually pillaged a tomb" (worldwide through your movie) of which you admit to, Now.

As for the Priory and its secrets.... What if is not the noble & poetic knights you expect them to be but rather a group of modern day political despots hell-bent on securing their own historicity through mediums such as your good self and your film?

Hi Bruce,

Welcome to Debunkers` Forum - they`re the majority.

People sworn to secrecy aren`t going to show their hand.

I wouldn`t tell just anybody either,but I would share the location with the proper officials,so they could investigate it professionally...Ben doesn`t seem to have the same reasoning.It`s very simple..people want to know what is the big hold up? A little less talk and alot more action.

Bruce,did Hammott show up to the Esoterikon 2010 show? If so any footage available from there?

You mean people that seperate the wheat from the chaff or to put more forthrightly, the lies from the truth, which is what Bruce states he would like to do.

If Bruce wants the truth he should be able to answer with truth the many questions posed, about the discrepancies in his movie, easily, simply and without deflection.


Of course people sworn to secrecy aren't going to show their hand - that's the definition of secret, dah

Patience dear Lady!
I'm sure Alexius/Konrad is already working on a 'translation' of it and will start emailing you copy any day now!


TD

Really? Is Ben registered on the Forum?



Its amazing how often you refer to these 'Visigothic successes' of yours as confirming 'Bens discoveries' and yet neither have been authenticated by independant, reputable bodies.
The only bits about all this that you are directly involved, namely the box and bottles, seem to be, erm...........open to question?



So its a team effort now is it? In the film there only seemed to be 'Ben' lying in the cave, sounds like you've turned it into a partnership or are you basking in a little reflected glory ?
Bill, from what Bruce says it would appear that DRAC are not believers and view you guys as, at best, time wasters. How would you respond to that ?



As usual you've said absolutely nothing to enhance the credibility of your claims or your own role in this. Your incongruous behavior at the Moot with the box from the cave left many of us feeling disquiet. I'm sure you can see that there is some way to go before any of this gains acceptence.
BTW Allying yourself with the honourable member from Tucson definitely doesnt enhance your credibility!

As HollyDolly suggested at this moment the 'body' is just as likely to belong to Davy Crockett as anyone else!

Lets be honest Bill, you're not even within shouting distance of being credible in any of this and affecting an insouciant air in your posts isn't going to change that.

BTW In an earlier post you said


Can you remind us of any independantly verified discoveries you have made since 1972?
It might appear to some that, after 38 years, these items being 'found' might be just a last desperate roll of the dice?

TD

Not I. I have assured myself that I have been shown footage of two different 'tombs'. So someone is lying to me if it is asserted that they are one and the same. The scenario shown in Bloodline, in the cave, while the third film is being filmed below also has unanswered questions. Why is Bill W looking down a blind hole, swearing, and not at the video monitor as he butchers away with his steak knives on stilts? Is this artistic licence purely for the film?

I care not an iota where any real tomb might be and I don't think it would change many people's lives whomsoever the occupant might be. A few might benefit financially.

Roger-you still didn´t get it! I do NOT talk for Ben or Bill (show me just one sentence I wrote about BILL KERSEY). I have seen things in Southern France,I met Ben 6 years ago, and all the stuff I have seen so far let me come to my opinion (MY OPINION) and my conclusion(MY CONCLUSION) which is that the tomb and the body (btw Ben never said it IS MM-he said It COULD be MM) is real. No matter what you think! I have seen things with my own eyes-so did you????? I do not make any cent with this story, nobody pays me for that, I just want to find the truth like most of the members here and in deed I once thought Ben has faked all this stuff but then he convinced me that it´s real! So tell me just one good reason to invenst many thousend Euros per year, investing time, climbing through wet bushes, buying expensive equipment if I wouldn´t be 100% sure Bens tomb is real???????????????????????????????????

But why would "Ben" take the DRAC to the wrong site, when he said he did want it to be properly excavated?

I'm sure less intelligent people then yourself, Pat, have allowed themselves to be conned because of their emotional involvment in a subject, not that I'm stating there's a con here but rather your question can be easily answered

Pat,
Here is a simple question for you............
Have you been to the cave and looked down into the 'tomb' to see it with your own eyes?

If the answer is yes then your opinion is important to support Ben.
If the answer is no then your opinion has no relevance to this discussion.

So which is it?
Ben 'convincing' you is not the same thing as Ben showing you
TD

And there, the case for the prosecution rests, m'lud....

VAM

Sorry, if that sounded too strident but the essential point is that we need to cut through the smokescreen, obfuscation and get to the nitty gritty.

If he's seen it with his own eyes then he should state it clearly and tell us what he knows.
If not then he should pipe down with the irrelevant hearsay.
Were not asking for GPS co-ordinates just something concrete to begin to answer all the questions that Bruces posts have raised.

TD

Good luck with that!

VAM

Oh dear...not looking good, and it would have been so cool...

But could one really have the gall to get the DRAC (and a load of others) involved in a complete hoax, thereby putting in jeopardy the reputations of your entire "team", Bruce, Rene and their backers, and others involved in trying to do their best to bring this investigation to fruition in the face of so much scepticism if not opposition? It seems so unlikely a betrayal. And yet...???

Dear Doubting Thomas, I too would need to put my fingers in the wounds to be convinced of such perfidy.

You can´t see it with your own eyes cos you have to use a remote cam which I didn´t because Ben did it several times. So your argument will be now-Ben has cheated me because he never showed how the cam is going down in the tomb. OK! Point for you-could be! I know its not like this but this is a different story! If you ask me if the upper cave exists I only can say YES!

Dear Rain,
In retrospect, on one hand, I do regret providing Bill W with some remote camera equipment and asking him to film, and then extract some hair for DNA testing. I do recognise that it is someone's corpse, but we don't know who. I can only say that I was carried away by the fervour of my quest at the time, as well as the authenticity of Bill W's claims. In my defence, I did insist to Bill W that he report it officially to the DRAC and that I professional excavation was undertaken. At that point he'd 'sat' on the 'discovery' for eight years or so, and I arranged, with the essential help of a English researcher and translator, to take Bill W to the DRAC in Montpellier. As for 'Bloodline' being based on a false premise, or being 'conned' by Nicolas Haywood, or Gino, or being too enthralled with 'Da Vinci Code-esque' secrets etc, again, I throw my hands up. Of course they could all be barking mad loonies...then again, maybe they were 'playing' me for a reason. I guess time will tell. Rain, it was an incredible journey, and I tried to make an intensely personal film, so you could feel and try and understand how I felt, as I progressed. The deeper I went, the more truth and evidence became very elusive commodities, so in the end, the film gave a platform of sorts for Thome, Sandri, Feral, Wilkinson, Kersey and Haywood's ideas, beliefs and claims. Are the right? Are they frauds? Are they well meaning fantasists? Maybe a little of all three. But I don't regret a single minute of any of this.
best wishes,
Bruce

Dear Pat,

I'm as confused as anyone about Bill W's 'tomb'. And my frustration, shown here on this forum, is that, having put so much time and effort into this, especially Bill W, I just want to know the truth.

Personally, as I write this, three years or so, after I met Bill W and yourself, I think he constant refusal to actually work with the DRAC and offically excavate the tomb, despite offers from Televison and privaye sources, just show that he doesn't have anything to deliver. But of course I might be wrong.

He took me to the cave site, in which he said he discovered the tomb, several times. he also took the DRAC there. I also have the original footage that he shot in there back in 1999 with his brother, when he said the camera fell down a crack in the cave floor and revealed the tomb. I also have the original footage which he shot using the remote camera down the shaft to film the corpse, and the footage shot in the same cave when he extracted the hair from the corpse. All of that footage clearly shows the same cave.

However, the DRAC geologists say that the rock structure of the small cave would make it impossible for a tomb to lie beneath the cave. Their words not mine. In addition to that, many people, perhaps yourself included, have exacavated that site thoroughly over the last year or so, and never found any shafts.

So is it there? I'd love to think it was. I'd love Bill W to go to the DRAC and start excavating. This is not a case of me vs Bill W at all. If he asked me to help I still would. I just think it's time to put up or shut up.

Can I also say that I do admire the time and passion you have put into researching and searching in the area. I've enjoyed our time together, even if it was exhausting at times, I've liked your team alot, and I will never forget the freak storm that hit us all that day on Cardou.

Pat, do what you can to get the truth out, I will help in anyway you want, if I can.
Best wishes,
Bruce

I like to also say, at the risk of boring you all with my numerous postings, that I have never seen the tomb with my own eyes, nor the shaft Bill W says he discovered. I have only ever been shown the footage by Bill W. But, as I stated earlier, the cave he took me and the DRAC too, is the same cave that he enters on all the footage, even the original footage from 1999, and the same cave that can be seen behind and above him as he operates the remote camera in the tomb.

But the really confusing thing for me, and frankly the rock (excuse the pun) that I based my belief in the veracity of the tomb in, was that, with my cameraman in early 2007, I personally drove Bill W to that same cave, dropped him off right outside, while he went into with the remote camera equipment, monitor and sticky-ended pole to collect hair. He had a factory sealed NEW tape for the camera that I gave him. He refused to allow either myself or the cameraman into the cave, but I did sneak a peak at him in there, about an hour or so later, packing up his equipment.

Let me also say it's only a small cave with one way in and out.

He comes out, gives me the rod with the hair on it. We go back to our based at Maison de Chapelier in Esperaza and review the footage of what he just shot. I see the sticky rod going down and 'grabbing' the hair for myself. I then bag up the hair (this is in 'Bloodline') and then we then go to the courier company and send the hair to the DNA Lab.

If the tomb under that cave isn't real, how on earth did Bill W pull this off? I was with him every step of the way EXCEPT in the actual cave. Food for thought.

what does your instinct tell you Bruce?

It's smells fish.

There we go, I'm sure that the terms that weren't coming to me yesterday are the above but in Latin. Merci, monsieur!

TCP