Thomas D. wrote:
HOW DOES THIS QUICK SYNOPSIS HELP ?..........
Back in Feb '09 Roger said various things;
The "biographers" are describing it in its "adapted" form. The one that could be taken as Christian as well as Roman/Pagan.
The coins I pointed out, describe it as it was, in its raw splendour (leaving off the tara-diddles and jewels).
Cannot get more explicit than this;
Hi Tingra, eagle-eyed researcher of all researchers, I didn't mention the Bordeaux coin because I simply skimmed over it and because it's almost the same as another representation.
Hi Sandy, the Rodez coin is very interesting, isn't it? It's an out-of-scale deconstruction of the actual object.
I forgot to correct you in that Constantine did not bring it to France, he acquired it there. Ironically, it went back to more or less where it originally came from, when Childebert brought it back to St Germain des Pres (at the time Ste Croix et St Vincent).
Ever hear of the vacuum of the Lendit?
This sounds like someone who knows...
Now... you want me to tell you how it came to be in RLC and how Sauniere got it, and what he did with it, and why, and how it was spirited away? You don't ask for much, do you? You'd probably like my credit card numbers as well? Don't you think I've been generous enough
I don't see IMHO so it looks 'ex Cathedra',,,,,,,,
Wrong track. The premeditated and extensive christianisation campaign with regard to the object is probably at the source of its alleged Old Testament connections (it has variously been alleged to have belonged to Moses, Aaron, Solomon, etc. - all false, unless someone can explain how it became such a prominent feature of a pagan solar temple in the Lendit - most unlikely! It's defintely pre-Frankish, whether Germanic or Celtic or some other Gallic tribal origin - Henry d'Arthenay has been launching some interesting educated speculations as to its actual origin - religious, if not historical, ). In reality, its only proximity to anything related to the Old Testament lies in that it was purloined from Rome, by the Wisigoths, in conjunction with the remains of the treasure of Jerusalem. Hence, it would be "biblical" by contamination rather than by true origin.
Similarly, it purported ability to throw off "flammeches" may or not be ascribed to a desire to ape the legend of Moses' "flammeches". Note that small flames bursting forth from some prominent character's head (or hair) form a substantial part of many legends of the period.
Who jumped the Gun?
We do know that certain people took action to hide and preserve it at various times, so we can guess at their motives. We also know that, during dynastic shifts, efforts were made to retrieve it (Sauniere's time being no exception).
But we aren't in that phase yet, are we? We've still to find out what happened after it came to the Abbaye de Sainte Croix et Saint Vincent...
(I like to proceed in order... as Sheila will no doubt tell you!)
You can take this to the bank.........
The item is made of gold.
Doesn't sound like a guess......
I could take you to where the relic WAS... it's gone, as I've told you
The secret of success.......
Dumb luck, at first... then followed up by lots of hard work (and privileged access, that helps a lot) to make sure... However, I don't think the hard work (or access) would've amounted to a hill of beans without the dumb luck coming first.
Yes, and I believe that's all I've asked people here to do, based on my hinting and sometimes broad hinting, no ?
I have to give credit where credit is due. If I hadn't run into IBJ, the "dumb luck" portion of this would never have happened. His completely different approach to all this (which I scoffed at, at first) was what put me onto what the true subject of all this really was.
Which book ?
After proper identification, further research and consultation, this is actually a great find, Tingra, because it allows us to solidify the provenance of the object prior to its Gallic worship. I'll explain later.
You'll get credit in the book!
Just to clarify IBJ joined in to make a point.
Now you have to know that the object depicted on Merovingian coins goes by the following name: “CRISTA”. It is an exceedingly rare object, a unique one in fact, which symbolizes the power of Constantine. It is the real article, the only genuine Pax Chi-Rho.
It is called Crista because according to the historians, this object is like a crest, featuring two arcs which are affixed to the top of the object, and fall back downwards on both sides of it, exactly like the crested helmet.
However, the coins Tingra showed us date back to a time long before Constantine ever gained power, and even before Christ came into the world. Therefore, this symbol is clearly not Christian, and it is not even connected with Christ in any way, shape or form.
Ndawe asks who it serves?
At present, no one. It rests hidden, unused.
Which may be a good thing. I don't know.
Well... that's the fascinating quest. For me and the IBJ team, anyway. Tracing its meanderings through history, from the Abbaye de St Germain, to...???? It's the same object all right, there are no two alike. But perhaps it's best to simply see if you can find its track through time.
I did what I wanted to do. I made you conscious of its existence, and I believe we had fun doing it?. Do with that as you please, from there on.
No, Roger is quite impressed and pleased with you all.
I hinted, you found.
Looks like the question was asked.......
No, it's not a theory, but I'm not optimistic about the present "owners" agreeing to any sort of examination. We'll see what is brought on in the fullness of time.
Yes, it's as I keep saying, and as you can see, this is Cherisey's only real "code", which isn't really a "code" at all. Once you know what he's really talking about, it becomes fairly easy to follow.
I need to clarify why he's doing this... He's reaching out to anyone who also knows the whole story. People who don't know will not be able to follow. Logically, therefore, he's trying to talk to people who do know. And that's just a few groups.
Last bit for Tim. Yes, sovereignty has been exercised, without assistance of anything more than brute force. No real need of any legitimacy whatsoever, whether real or perceived. But that's not quite what we're talking about here. We're talking about being able to lay claim to the Imperial seat, to be Constantine's heir, and pretty much on the same basis as on which Constantine solidified his authority. The legend of a divine apparition and possession of a very real object, as a confirming sign.
Sandy, on the money as usual asked these questions....
You didnt answer these questions yet
) How do we know it is all related to this 'relic' that you both refer to? Have you seen it yourselves?
2) How are you going to show that this is all linked to Sauniere?
3) At the moment, i visualise this relic as an artifact, not very big, made of gold as you say, not attached to anything, in fact, imagine the people who wear crucifixes round their necks .... flat pieces of gold ..... thats how i view this relic, but obviously bigger. Would this be correct?
Is it associated or part of another artifact etc etc?
4) I know you know of it 'from privelege', but you said a colleague showed you. So how does that person know its related to Sauniere? Have you evidence of Sauniere finding this relic? Was it in the crypt under the church, buried with a Hautpoul family member? etc etc.
1) How do you think we know what it is?
2) By laying it all out in the next book.
3) Bigger than a crucifix, you wouldn't want it around your neck, unless you're one of those gangsta-rappers who "over-gold" instead of over-dose.
4) That's a compound question that has, amongst its premises an incorrect interpretation of what I said. But let me say that IBJ showed me what was in front of my nose. As far as where it was, I'll only say it came to RLC from Limoux, due to the Revolution.
That's all I'm going to say on that. I've already told you that I'm only interested now in seeing whether you can track its progress. I'm not interested in telling you all our secrets.
What a week that was in Feb 2009. Does that cover the main points Tim?
Anyone know about that 'next book' ?
One of the many threads on the subject "the Crista" yielded the following quotes back in 2010 underlining the
role played by 'Roger' IMHO.