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 Post subject: The Castillon Diary: Game Over
PostPosted: 04 Sep 2010 1:21 pm 
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Acolyte
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[WARNING: This is a long post, so if you've been following this topic the last few days and do not want to recap all that's happened, or just want to go straight to the juicy bits: Scroll down to about where the pictures begin and read down from there]


For some time now a certain diary of one Rodrigo Saenz de Castillon has been said to contain a first hand account of his meetings with several famous personages of the 19th and early 20th century, has been circulating here at Andrew Gough's Arcadia, as well as other places on the internet. The entries of this diary are full of extraordinary meetings with larger-than-life personalities that at times, to put it gently, stretch the boundaries of probability and belief. One such entry was posted recently by forum user alexius on 1 September 2010:

alexius wrote:
The following may throw some light on the Johann Orth affair. I obtained this from Twyford and make no comment on it. Don't shoot the messenger.

The following are entries for May 1900. Castillon has been spending some time as a guest of La Diva [Emma Calve?] at her "little castle" i.e. the Chateau de Cabrieres in the Aveyron.


The party of guests comprised Castillon of course, JB described as La Diva's manager; CD a composer and his mistress EB the wife of a prosperous Parisian banker and previously mistress of GF another composer, she is an accomplished "amateur" singer; P a Polish exile, a pianist; Leconte, "a symbolist poet, effete and languid, writer of erotically charged verse usually about the devotees of Sappho on the Island of Lesbos and other like classical themes. CD is at present setting some of these to music." [the words in inverted commas are Castillon's own]; Marcel "a novelist of fragile health who is writing the novel of the 20th century having tired of and been revolted by what he calls the sweaty, heaving, realism of Zola and his clique of the late 19th."; JO "an odd fish, big, burly man with the appearance of a common labourer or deckhand rather who claims to be an English citizen, despite a pronounced guttural teutonic sort of accent, ship-owner and mercantile trader operating out of Gibraltar. Has a yacht moored at Port-Vendres."; JO's wife Molly "she is definitely teutonic, Viennese actually, plump, attractive embonpoint, blonde, singer in light opera and operetta."; the Ser "apparently the high-priest of the Symbolists and a founder of the Rose+Croix. So very interesting company and as far as the ladies are concerned quite a nest of nightingales." This house-party lasts from the 14th to the 17th May. Castillon grumbles about being alone following the desertion of Semiramis but nevertheless confesses to enjoying himself immensely.

Twyford identified (to his own satisfaction) most of the personages behind the initials and Castillon given pseudonyms as follows:-

CD = Claude Debussy who was a member of Rose+Croix
EB = His lover, Emma Bardac, later his wife.
P = Paderewski
Leconte = Pierre Louys
Marcel = Proust
JO = Johann Orth
Ser (sic) should be Sar = Josephin Peladin


This diary entry reads like a yearbook of some of the most distinguished artists, writers, and personages of 1900. Sounds almost too good to be true. Could all of these stars of the age have possibly come together at the medieval castle of Cabrieres in the Causses of France on the specified dates (May 14, 15, 16, 17 1900)?

As much as I wanted to believe (even though no evidence whatsoever has as yet been provided of this diary's existence beyond words), I began to notice some inaccuracies in the account. The first of these was the line:

Quote:
JB described as La Diva's manager


"La Diva" as pertains to the Castillon Diary is identified as Emma Calve, one of the greatest sopranos of all time. During the year 1900 Calve was singing under contract with the Grau Opera Company, the entity that held the lease of the Metropolitan Opera House in New York. The Grau Opera Company took its name from Metropolitan Opera General Manager Maurice Grau whose tenure was from 1898 to 1903. During this year of 1900 Emma Calve was under the exclusive management of Grau as she had been previously, and still was after 1900. When I pointed out this fact in this post I provided scans of contemporary newspaper accounts that in no uncertain terms confirm the professional relationship between Emma Calve and Maurice Grau as that of artist and manager. At this time I also introduced the idea that the pianist I. J. Paderewski(P in the Castillon account) was touring America, as well as putting the finishing touches on his opera Manru which would premiere the following year. I also mentioned that Paderewski and Grau were acquainted with each other at this time, and thus P would have known that JB were not the initials of Calve's manager. The veracity of the newspapers was challenged by Hugo Furst:

Hugo Furst wrote:
Then the initials bit. Who is to say if in esoteric circles that Grau dude didn't go by a'nuvver handle as Twyford seems to think he did. Point I make is, Emma baby only had 1 manager, yes? uh, folks there is a 'thang' called the ergo factor, yes?
...
BTW, use of doubles has happened many times thruout history. The fact Emma wasn't able to sing and had to cancel her opera dates, tells me, that was a cover pretense so that she could be else where durin' that time and could re-surface in say Havana, etc. Just look at who owned the NY Times, need I say more? Thorstein's bit of research only re-inforces this cover story IMHO.


There were more posts following, and even though it is well documented and demonstrable that Maurice Grau was the one and only manager of Emma Calve in the month of May 1900, the doubters still refused to accept the truth. Renne(the author of the afore mentioned UFO Digest article on the Castillon Diary) had this to say:

Renne wrote:
The mgr. you mention was the mgr. for the American tour.

The "Orient" performances were in Russia where the opera season is in the winter. Emma Calve returned by ship to Paris earlier in May to perform at the Paris Exposition and afterwards she and her friends returned to her castle for a get-together. Rodrigo was a newspaper reporter who covered the arts and Calve, he was a big fan and she appreciated his articles about her.


I then replied:

Thorstein wrote:
Even worse! For him not to know the name Maurice Grau as a reporter of the arts is almost unforgivable. Before the Met, Grau had dealings at Covent Garden. His name was well known in the European opera circles. It was in London that he met Paderewski. How could a reporter who most likely had written of Grau previously inexplicably refer to him as JB instead of GM in his diary??


her excuse:

Renne wrote:
Great articles, very informative. I don`t think that newspaper reviews of her performances would have included the name of her mgr. The guests were new to him and only introduced using their initials.


I said:

Thorstein wrote:
The intrinsic problem I see with Emma Calve's involvement in this Diary is that whoever is writing these entries shows a very rudimentary understanding of the world of opera which Calve is inseparable from. Mary Bennett herself said Castillon was an art reporter... if that's the case, his lack of knowledge makes him untrustworthy, and makes you wonder whether he simply would have invented a review of Meyerbeer's Robert le Diable rather than sit through it. I understand how some people could find it not easily approachable, or be star-struck by the costumes and the orchestra, but it is a performing art which is dissected, reviewed, and captured on a daily basis. There is hardly any aspect of opera, its performers, and peripheral characters that is not documented.


After this exchange, Team Castillon continued to stick to their guns:

Renne wrote:
JB, JB, who could that possibly be?!!

I wonder whether Alexius could tell us.

Here`s a clue, JB would not be a good escort for a visit to a priest,

you would need someone else for that.


Notice that up to this point no reasonable explanation for why "JB" would have been introduced as Emma Calve's manager has been fielded by Team Castillon (Renne, alexius, twyford, Hugo Furst) Though it has not been posted by them yet that JB could possibly refer to Jules Bois, I will say this in the case that after today that suggestion is put forth. It is true that Jules Bois and Emma Calve were engaged, but they did not announce it until 1903 (published in NYT), and they never did marry. There is a report from the years after 1900 that states that although there were rumours that Emma Calve was to be married, she never did. This is two suitors AFTER Bois. The only question here is, why would a not-yet-fiance be introduced as a "manager" in the presence of people who were acquainted with the real manager?

I decided then to turn my attention to the matter of dates. The Wikipedia entry for Calve's 1899-1900 year says only "Travel in Orient." This would present a perfect opportunity for a journal to appear that sheds light on this vaguely described year. However, my involvement with opera told me that the diary was by far too convenient, and inaccurate to be believed.

The Castillon Diary asserts that:
alexius wrote:
This house-party lasts from the 14th to the 17th May


Let us see where Emma (the owner of the castle/hostess) was on these dates. For this portion of my research I used mainly the British Library's British Newspaper Archive. Each scan contains information on the name of the publication, the date published, and the issue number if available.

The New York Times reports that the opera season at Covent Garden, London opened on Monday, 14 May 1900:

ImageImage

But as Hugo/Jake doesn't trust the NYT, let's turn to the Brits themselves:

Image
On Saturday, 12 May 1900 The London Graphic reports that Mme. Calve will likely take the stage on Thursday, 17 May 1900


On Friday, 18 May 1900 The Pall Mall Gazette confirms that Emma Calve made her season debut on Thursday, 17 May just as The Graphic said:
Image

Also on Friday, 18 May 1900 the Glasgow Herald's London correspondent confirms that Calve performed on the 17th, and adds one more piece of information- Emma Calve arrived in London THE NIGHT BEFORE her performance:
Image

What does this mean for the Castillon Diary? It means that if Emma Calve arrived in London on Wednesday(16th) evening, she was traveling that entire day as well. Her castle in the Cevennes is rather a long way from London. Using transportation and the infrastructure available to her in her remote part of southern France in 1900 how long do you suppose that trip might take? This of course precludes her from shuttling back and forth from Cabrieres to London to spend time with her friends during the four days Castillon claims she was in residence. The critics who submitted reports to their journals are to be considered eye-witnesses, as they were present in the theatre and laid eyes on Calve and place her in London on the 16th and 17th of May. Their accounts appear in different publications and so corroborate each other. What kind of hostess leaves her "get together" halfway?

Emma Calve WAS NOT, by published eye-witness testimony, in her castle in France on the 16th and 17th of May 1900. Castillon is wrong about this, just as he was wrong about the initials of Emma Calve's manager. What else could this diary entry have gotten wrong?

As demonstrated in a previous post of mine, during the Spring of 1900, pianist and composer I. J. Paderewski was on a North American recital tour sponsored by Steinway and making his way from West to East across the U.S. Mainland. Castillon says Paderewski was at Emma Calve's castle from 14 May to 17 May, 1900:

alexius wrote:
P a Polish exile, a pianist ... Twyford identified (to his own satisfaction) most of the personages ... P = Paderewski


Unfortunately for Team Castillon, Paderewski was placed in New York on the evening of May 12, as he gave a recital at Carnegie Hall (Birmingham Daily Post). The article also tell us that Mr. Paderewski "sails for England in the Oceanic on the 16th inst." :
Image

There is only one conclusion... Paderewski was categorically NOT on the European continent on the 14th, 15th, or 16th of May. As an Atlantic crossing by ship in those days was at least a 2 to 3 day affair, it is safe to say that he was not on the European continent on the 17th or 18th of May either thereby missing the entire party. Castillon asserting that Paderewski was in France during those dates crosses the line from factual inaccuracy to flat out fabrication and dishonesty.

Facts:

1. An anonymous man posts a Castillon diary entry he received from another anonymous man (Colin H.?), sight-unseen.

2. Castillon was wrong about the name of Emma Calve's manager, a man he would have known if he was any type of reporter on the arts. If he reviewed Calve's performances, he was there. If he was there, he had a playbill. In the playbills the name Maurice Grau appears prominently wherever the name Emma Calve appears, just as in the newspapers.

3. Castillon claims Emma Calve was present at her castle in France from May 14-17 1900. As I have shown she was not in France, but in London on the 16th and 17th, facts backed up by multiple published sources.

4. Castillon lies about the presence of Ignacy Jan Paderewski at Calve's castle. If the "get together" took place from the 14th to the 17th of May 1900, Paderewski could not have been there as he boarded a ship in an American port on the 16th for a trip that would take 2 to 3 days. He could not have possibly reached European shores until after the party was over.

5. No single shred of evidence for the existence of this diary has ever been presented beyond the posted words(and only words) of Renne (Mary Alice Bennett), alexius, twyford, and Hugo Furst.
Conclusion:

The Castillon diary is riddled with inaccuracies, anachronisms, and blatant lies. I am not the first to point out errors and inconsistencies contained in the journal entries( a search of the posted contents of this site will reveal that this diary was suspect from the beginning). Given this it is safe to say that the Castillon diary is a fabrication in its entirety. The case for authenticity is not helped by the refusal of the perpetrators of this hoax to provide any images or submit the journal for independent verification. As I said a few days ago:

Thorstein wrote:
You cannot reveal that which does not exist, eo ipso the Castillon diary does not exist.



R.I.P. Castillon Diary


edit- spelling fails


Last edited by Thorstein on 04 Sep 2010 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Castillon Diary: Game Over
PostPosted: 04 Sep 2010 2:09 pm 
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Well done Thorstein!! Finally!!! Let's hope that's enough proof! Although, this didn't seem to be - posted in March 2009... :?

Renne wrote:
Well the time has indeed come to wrap the Castillon diary up. To end the charade, the deception, the lies (strong that but true I think); to call off the hoax. Yes I made it all up. It was all the product of an over-active (hyperactive?) imagination and a lifetimes reading in French literature and history, esoteric cults, fin de siecle art and social mores, conspiracy theories, modern-day paranoia and so on and so on. Mea culpa. Mea maxima culpa. I knew the jig was up when asked for scans or photocopies. And your last e-mail decided me. I didn't realize you were a Christian writer I just thought you were another "great conspiracy theory" fanatic, a dweller on the lunatic fringe of rationality. I did you a rank injustice. A thousand and one sincere apologies dear lady. I realize I have lost a valuable friendship but as they say honesty is the best policy.
And so,
Farewell from
Colin H
Sad fantasist, would-be poet, part-time painter and hopeless romantic.


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 Post subject: Re: The Castillon Diary: Game Over
PostPosted: 04 Sep 2010 2:10 pm 
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Personally, i think the 2010 Arcadia Research Trophy should be awarded to this young man for his outstanding example of super sleuthing.

That was some post Thorstein !


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 Post subject: Re: The Castillon Diary: Game Over
PostPosted: 04 Sep 2010 2:27 pm 
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Now for your next mission, our Icelandic warrior -

It is now time to turn those skills from the time-wasting shenanigans of those rather pathetic falsifiers to the crux of the matter Thorstein - whence came Sauniere's fortune and is there still a real treasure to be identified? (No pressure then :wink: )

Take this shield (bouclier) and this sword (epee) and a draught of this wine (le vin de l'alchimiste) and Godspeed...next year in Valhalla...

_________________
Ingeniosis apertum, Stolidisque sigillatum.


Last edited by ndawe on 04 Sep 2010 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Castillon Diary: Game Over
PostPosted: 04 Sep 2010 2:38 pm 
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Quote:
Sheila wrote:
Personally, i think the 2010 Arcadia Research Trophy should be awarded to this young man for his outstanding example of super sleuthing.

That was some post Thorstein !




seconded, third and fourthed

Outstanding work Sir !
Huzzah!

TO DO LIST.

1. Call taxi for MAB
2. Call Sisters of Mercy re Twyfords return
3. Call Hotel Boscolo ref Champagne Reception
4. Book ringside seats for the shameless rebuttal.

TD :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: The Castillon Diary: Game Over
PostPosted: 04 Sep 2010 3:03 pm 
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Thorstein wrote:
R.I.P. Castillon Diary


That was OUTSTANDING!!! This needs to be posted on the Arcadia main page as an article, with a link posted anywhere and everywhere on the Web that "Team Castillon" has left their calling card. They need to be smoked out of the bushes once and for all.

And for you, my friend, the Grand Cross of the Ordre Prieurale du Hareng Rouge, with oak leaf clusters, cape and sword. A grateful nation hails you for your selfless service and devotion to the cause.

Image

TCP


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 Post subject: Re: The Castillon Diary: Game Over
PostPosted: 04 Sep 2010 3:26 pm 
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Nicole, when did the Vikings take over? yer post here is a puzzler to me...

Take this shield (bouclier) and this sword (epee) and a draught of this wine (le vin de l'alchimiste) and Godspeed...next year in Valhalla...

I didn't know Vikings used French to describe their weapons of war, nor did they drink French wine on their forays. if the same 'krew' which owns the NY Times + the London Times had an agenda to support or conceal, they have all the means to do it, yes? To include the use of photo op doubles.

I am still waitin' for the diary owner to tease the forum with a few diary photö's. As Yogi Berra said,,, the game ain't over 'til its over, and the fat lady sings...

I am not sayin' the fat lady in Yogi's quip is Emma, but the association of the 2 is spot on, IMHO. Its up to Alexius to concede defeat, if what T-stein sez has any validity. Its a brand new ballgame, to continue that metaphor, if Alexius dangles some juicy bait to the forum. The name of the game here is patience, sumfin Tom D lacks.

BTW T-stein, in the spook trade, mis-disinfo is published all the time to allow for 'plausible deniability'. That'd give cover to all of those esoteric oriented folks to cover their tracks if they went to these clandestine meets.

How many times were misleadin' stories created when Bush or Clinton were Prez to cover the time they were out of country? Just recently Cameron went to Afghan to visit the troopies, when was his departure reported in UK papers?

Yer use of newspapers of that time is like usin' Wiki today, yes?

_________________
By all means, be my guest, to be truly gallic + egalitarian... ladies first.


Last edited by Hugo Furst on 04 Sep 2010 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Castillon Diary: Game Over
PostPosted: 04 Sep 2010 6:32 pm 
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TCP wrote:
And for you, my friend, the Grand Cross of the Ordre Prieurale du Hareng Rouge, with oak leaf clusters, cape and sword.

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: The Castillon Diary: Game Over
PostPosted: 04 Sep 2010 6:42 pm 
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Bethania, is it part of this...If you've been reading along, you'll know that "the Herrings" is an affectionate reference to the Ordre du Hareng Rouge, ...
tweleve.org/maranatha/22667-michaels-thread

My point is, why didn't Tim quote his source for that phrase.

_________________
By all means, be my guest, to be truly gallic + egalitarian... ladies first.


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 Post subject: Re: The Castillon Diary: Game Over
PostPosted: 04 Sep 2010 8:40 pm 
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Hello everyone ....

I am not remotely interested in thsi diary at all. Not one iota.

However, i would be dishonest if i didnt say how much i like what Alexius writes on this Forum. I just like his/her style.

Thats the posts here.

Dont care about the diary ; )


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 Post subject: Re: The Castillon Diary: Game Over
PostPosted: 04 Sep 2010 8:46 pm 
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Hugo Furst wrote:
Bethania, is it part of this...If you've been reading along, you'll know that "the Herrings" is an affectionate reference to the Ordre du Hareng Rouge, ...
tweleve.org/maranatha/22667-michaels-thread

My point is, why didn't Tim quote his source for that phrase.


Because, you "trusting" fool, I AM THE SOURCE FOR THE PHRASE.

©TCP All Rights Reserved


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 Post subject: Re: The Castillon Diary: Game Over
PostPosted: 04 Sep 2010 8:55 pm 
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bergeredearcadie wrote:
Hello everyone ....

I am not remotely interested in thsi diary at all. Not one iota.

However, i would be dishonest if i didnt say how much i like what Alexius writes on this Forum. I just like his/her style.

Thats the posts here.

Dont care about the diary ; )


I actually like Alexius too, I just wish he'd use his powers for good instead of evil. Perhaps if "Alexius" were to depart (with the diary) and the man/mind behind the moniker could come back as someone else, we could start again...? It could be one of those little skeletons in the closet no one talks about...

TCP


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 Post subject: Re: The Castillon Diary: Game Over
PostPosted: 04 Sep 2010 8:58 pm 
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Because, you "trusting" fool, I AM THE SOURCE FOR THE PHRASE

Oh, this Forum makes me laugh.

It really does.

There are some dumb people here : )

I mean, no offense, and i get things wrong too ... but come onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn ....


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 Post subject: Re: The Castillon Diary: Game Over
PostPosted: 04 Sep 2010 9:08 pm 
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bergeredearcadie wrote:
Oh, this Forum makes me laugh.

It really does.

There are some dumb people here : )

I mean, no offense, and i get things wrong too ... but come onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn ....


It's not a matter of "dumb", Sandy. I think we can all accommodate "dumb", but "destructive" has its limits. The man was thrown off and banned once, and got right back on under another pseudo within minutes and nothing whatsoever was done about it. Notice that he chimes in on every thread now with the same off-topic swill just to derail every thread he can. Why are we putting up with this?

TCP


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 Post subject: Re: The Castillon Diary: Game Over
PostPosted: 04 Sep 2010 9:10 pm 
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Hugo Furst wrote:
if the same 'krew' which owns the NY Times + the London Times had an agenda to support or conceal, they have all the means to do it, yes? To include the use of photo op doubles.


Prove it. Kindly give us your sources that support your view about a conspiracy that explicitly involves Emma Calve, Ignacy Paderewski, Maurice Grau. As for your "doubles theory" Give me verifiable proof that these people were actually in another place and not where the world saw them. Please explain to me why you dismiss the reports from several eye-witness critics? Royal Opera House/Covent Garden seats several hundred people (including a lot of common folk) who all heard Emma Calve sing on May 17th, and saw her arrival in London on the night of the 16th(take a moment to realize you are calling every one of the ticket holders, including the Prince of Wales, a liar :lol:). In any case even if, and that is a very big if, "doubles" were being used how do you account for the fact that they gave performances. You can dress a person any way you like but the virtuosity of the people in question cannot be transfered! Surely it would have been noticed if Paderewski and Calve's performances were "off" in the slightest, remember these people had huge followings of fans who know their stuff and audiences in those days would not hesitate to boo or riot if they thought a performance was bad. BTW, I did not reference the London Times above.

Hugo Furst wrote:
I am still waitin' for the diary owner to tease the forum with a few diary photö's. As Yogi Berra said,,, the game ain't over 'til its over, and the fat lady sings...


Oh but it is over... The Castillon diary has been PROVEN by the above post to contain an impossibility. Paderewski was not anywhere near Europe at the time Castillon "saw" him at Emma Calve's castle. Doesn't matter if new entries of the journal "appear" or not, by being proven a liar, NOTHING connected with Castillon can ever be considered truthful. You and your friends are the ones that have a lot of homework to do to prove that this diary is real, I merely present you with the impossibilities and factual errors that assault the eye when reading that garbage. The burden of proof that this diary is real is on you and Team Castillon :lol:

Hugo Furst wrote:
if what T-stein sez has any validity.


Everything I've said is contained in the historical record, whereas the Castillon Diary is a fantasy...

Hugo Furst wrote:
That'd give cover to all of those esoteric oriented folks to cover their tracks if they went to these clandestine meets.


Prove any of this.

Hugo Furst wrote:
Yer use of newspapers of that time is like usin' Wiki today, yes?


No, not quite. My use of newspapers of that time is like using today's newspapers, in fact. Wiki is not accepted as a primary source in research. Contemporary journals are.

If you continue your approach via the conspiracies/coverups/doubles route, provide sources next time. As regards Emma Calve, and Paderewski we deal in facts, not "coulda/woulda/shoulda"

Hugo, just give it up and be a man. Admit you were wrong, and let's move on.


Last edited by Thorstein on 04 Sep 2010 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Castillon Diary: Game Over
PostPosted: 04 Sep 2010 9:12 pm 
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Why are we putting up with this?

I dunno.

I know some sites appear to be much stricter in 'netiquette'.
But i suppose the owners dont want to stifle free speech and all that.


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 Post subject: Paderewski
PostPosted: 05 Sep 2010 12:05 am 
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Image

The opening of Covent Garden look under "Covent Garden - May 19, 1900" in the British Library archives,
no mention of Emma Calve.

Thorstein is not a real person, he is Castillon enemy Thomas D. presenting clippings with added dates.

P = Paderewski who played in the USA in 1896, not 1900.

Do you have any articles with the actual dates on the newspaper pages rather than just the I.D. stamps?

"Madame Calve will probably appear...." Covent Garden was an annual event, she missed one year,

these reviews could have been from any year.

Thank you for the kind comments about Alexius, I too enjoy his posts.

You are doing your research from Iceland? By the way Mr. Thor`s hammer, Castillon was Jewish.

All we know about you Thorstein is that you are an RLC skeptic and cut and paste wizard, Re: your Crista collage.

From the N.Y. Times:

MME. CALVE IN BAD TEMPER.; Displeased by Criticism, She Says She Will Not Sing Here Next Season.

A dispatch from Albany yesterday stated that Mme. Emma Calve, the dramatic soprano, had resigned from the Abbey Grau Opera Company, and would not sing here next season. This was the final outcome of an exhibition of personal pique by the singer on the stage of the Opera House on Tuesday evening.

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Last edited by Renne on 05 Oct 2010 2:25 am, edited 5 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Castillon Diary: Game Over
PostPosted: 05 Sep 2010 12:56 am 
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Renne wrote:
P = Paderewski is a guess by the translator.


"P" is not just described by that letter alone. The diary writer also attaches the details "P a Polish exile, a pianist." Any candidate to be P will have to fit ALL of those characteristics.

Renne wrote:
Do you have any articles with the actual dates on the newspaper pages rather than just the I.D. stamps?

"Madame Calve will probably appear...." Covent Garden was an annual event, she missed one year


Yes, but be honest and finish the sentence: "Madame Calve will probably reappear on Thursday" a specific and verifiable time was given by the article for the date of Calve's season debut (the next Thursday after date of publication). The newspaper reviews appearing in later (and different) journals confirm what was said in that first article.

I have the entire articles as PDF files, showing the dates and the Masthead of the publications. As I said, all of the articles referenced can be found in the British Library Archive of British Newspapers at http://newspapers.bl.uk Access to the articles in full is not free, in fact it cost me a few £ to access them. It's a small sum, but really if you want to look at the articles for yourself you will no doubt not mind paying. Searching the database without an account will still reveal to you all of the date and publication information (even highlighting the keyword searched for, and a small image of the keyword within the document), but you just wont get a look at the article in full without paying. The Publication names, dates, and issue numbers appear on the article page on the archive websites. My purpose in providing those to you in the scans is obviously so that if you have an interest in verifying my claims, you may do so. After all, it is irresponsible and dishonest to make a claim or an allegation without a factual basis.

Quote:
"could have been from any year"


No, not really. See above.


Now, as you no doubt are aware, I do not have anything to prove to the world. I am not the one trying to pass off a hoax as the genuine article. I have thus far been very transparent and cooperative in illustrating my points of view to you, though I had no need. You and the other members of "Team Castillon" have not been at all cooperative and have as yet not provided a single piece of evidence for ANY of your claims.

I must now ask you to do me the same kindness and provide me with your sources, and any information relevant to this inquiry. You thought to question the veracity of my newspaper clippings, but yet neither you nor any of your friends have provided any sort of image (piece of evidence) of your own. Rather unfair, isn't it?

Since I know there will be nothing forthcoming from team Castillon to satisfy my questions, it would be best if you (all of you) let the subject drop here and now to save yourselves future embarrassments. I still have a surplus of materials I did not use in my posting. This is a long-dead horse, stop flogging it.

R.I.P. Castillon Diary


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 Post subject: Re: The Castillon Diary: Game Over
PostPosted: 05 Sep 2010 1:58 am 
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I think what is bein' glossed over in all of this, fiction or not, is what I said all along. Its only a love story 'boot un-requited love. My prolongin' the agony was to prove my point 'boot the reason why Tom D is on the forum at all. He is not here for makin' any positive contributions. He is a catalyst for destruction of the forum.

How come I am the only one who sees his role in all of is. I certainly don't trust mass media manipulation. Apparently T-stein didn't read what TCJ sez 'boot meetin' Rumsfeld and the rest of his gang of kosher Pentagon insiders.

Yo Tim, are ya sayin' ya also run the blog where I found the order of the red herring, as well? How come Tim, ya haven't clued T-stein in to how many doubles are used in the film industry? A real classic example, who was the guy impersonatin' Rudolf Hess in Spandau? Read what David Irving has to say 'boot that in his study of Herman Goering.

In the spook world the motto of mossad sez it all, yes? The diary just brought out how use of creative historic scenes as a backdrop has permeated he entire RLC enigma. Does the phrase smoke + mirrors come to mind? Like Sandy, I was never interested in the veracity of the diary as an historical document. I was fascinated as to how a book like that that catches attention, just like KMG's book that she insists she is the present day incarnation of The Expected One.

She didn't get raked over the coals the way the diary did, how come? If ya can't see the difference here, yer really blind, I got a spare set of trifocals if ya need them, and they are not rose colored either.

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 Post subject: Re: The Castillon Diary: Game Over
PostPosted: 05 Sep 2010 2:21 am 
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Congratulations Thornstein
This is the first time I have seen a researcher debunk a Diary when they haven't seen it :lol: :lol: :lol:
dang your good

I'm impressed how much work did you do on this....amazing all on a Diary that hasn't been seen
One wonders why ... Your a Crusader against false Diaries I see

I would give these words of caution to members of the forum
When you have people accuse people of lying and fraud this is quite dangerous for a open forum
I have noticed now this tactic is being used lately not just by you but by others too

and then as judge and jury announce that this research can now shut up...how did you say it GAME OVER
I didn't see a court in the room
It has to be frustrating to want to see the Diary when the owner doesn't want it seen
And I understand the skepticism and therefore your not believing it
That isn't helping the Diary's cause
I understand your position
I can understand wanting to see proof but who are you to demand anything
Last I saw no subpoena has been issued for evidence :?:

My point is why place the evidence with a prejudiced jury...that would be foolish
and lets face it from the comments above the jury is prejudiced



What happens is any new researcher will be hesitant to come here and show us their research for fear of
being accused of Lies Fraud and deceit...even some have been threatened with lawsuits :roll:

I WARN ALL that this will stifle the freedom of the forum

It has happened with others Baigent, Ben Hammott ,and now the Diary group...

I offer words of Caution

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 Post subject: Re: The Castillon Diary: Game Over
PostPosted: 05 Sep 2010 8:23 am 
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Quote:
Renne wrote:
Well the time has indeed come to wrap the Castillon diary up. To end the charade, the deception, the lies (strong that but true I think); to call off the hoax. Yes I made it all up. It was all the product of an over-active (hyperactive?) imagination and a lifetimes reading in French literature and history, esoteric cults, fin de siecle art and social mores, conspiracy theories, modern-day paranoia and so on and so on. Mea culpa. Mea maxima culpa. I knew the jig was up when asked for scans or photocopies. And your last e-mail decided me. I didn't realize you were a Christian writer I just thought you were another "great conspiracy theory" fanatic, a dweller on the lunatic fringe of rationality. I did you a rank injustice. A thousand and one sincere apologies dear lady. I realize I have lost a valuable friendship but as they say honesty is the best policy.
And so,
Farewell from
Colin H
Sad fantasist, would-be poet, part-time painter and hopeless romantic.



Did you not read this confession Lovuian?
What part of this did you not understand ? :shock:

Do you feel that falsity should be challenged or accepted?
Who was it that once said

"there are lies, damned lies and Diaries ?" :wink:

This is, allegedly, a Forum for investigating the Truth about RLC and other items. The Diary has been touted as a rich seam of historical information on the subject. When challenged those who support it have failed to offer the merest scintilla of proof that it exists.
Moreover, it has been shown to contain more factual impossibilities, things that physically could not have happened.
Opera is, clearly, a subject that Thorstein knows a lot about. He has spent time and money looking in public records and found that specific details from the diary are entirely fictional.

The only logical conclusion to all this is that the 'Diary' is nothing more than a fiction.
We even have Colin, 'the sad fantasist' confessing!

There was the bizarre suggestion today that my efforts to help nail this fiction are designed to destroy the Forum! :roll: Can I suggest to you that any forum that accepts such tawdry fakes has pushed the self destruct button. :shock:

When we grow up we learn that nothing in life is black or white, that life is simply many shades of grey. But thats not entirely true.
A LIE IS A LIE IS A LIE !
Everyone makes their own choices. Thorstein has decided to look at this from a stand point of his special interest and decided that it doesn't stand up.

Thorstein, you'll note that it begins................
The personal attacks will mount against you because they cannot attack your evidence.

There has been no evidence that the 'Diary' exists. Indeed we have a confession from the writer himself that HE MADE IT UP! Thorstein has proved that factually, it CANNOT be what it proports to be.

Lovuian, this isn't a faith based Forum.

TD. :?


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 Post subject: Re: The Castillon Diary: Game Over
PostPosted: 05 Sep 2010 1:40 pm 
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Its not a courtroom either TD
I just saw TCP call Baigent a liar and fraud just because he may have mixed up his sources
these are hefty charges


I saw it happen with the Hammott team
just people accusing them of deception when all they were doing was sharing their findings

I'm just saying by repeatedly doing this we never will get to see other researchers work
I like a open forum to share ideas not use it to persecute them



:roll:
I feel like this is wasted space
If its a lie and you all know its a lie
and you saw the person apologized for the lie
then why are we wasting the space and time on this?

:roll:
No there is more to this than that
you know it and I know it

But go ahead knock yourself out
spend hours on it
and show everybody who you really are


:wink:
What I see is a bunch of people beating pummeling whipping up on some people who apologized
there is no forgiveness here
What did he say
He who hasn't sinned pick up the next stone
its not a faith based forum...yes I can see that TD

Thornstein congratulations you just figured out something we figured out about 6 months ago
I hope the time effort was worth it
I have to admit I enjoyed reading the articles and congratulate the Castillion team on spurring you on
to give us a glimpse of them
Research is never a waste when it gives us a glimpse of the times when Emma lived
She is a fascinating character

So continue pummeling and beating up
but remember the cruelty is being seen by many

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 Post subject: Re: The Castillon Diary: Game Over
PostPosted: 05 Sep 2010 2:46 pm 
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Lovuian,
Do you know the difference between researching facts and creating fantasy?

Lets put this in a comic book context so you can maybe grasp the concept more easily.
You once shared your love for comic book stories.

Whilst reading and enjoying them do you, for one second believe they depict real events?

MAB and Twyford and various other characters aren't sharing with us a 'factional' document, something acknowledged as fantasy by them but written in the style of century old diary.
If they were and admitted it as such then none of would be wasting an instant of E-space.

However, what they are doing is trying to pass off a deeply flawed fictional work as a real historical document despite its flaws being exposed repeatedly.
This would all finish if they clarified that it is a fictional work but as they keep insisting its real it will continue to be judged on its merits.

Can you not see that fake is fake ? :shock:

If you got paid in counterfeit dollar bills would you spend time admiring the workmanship and trying to understand the forgers point of view or would you call foul ?

TD


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 Post subject: Re: The Castillon Diary: Game Over
PostPosted: 05 Sep 2010 3:22 pm 
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Do you know Thomas
what is fact today can be tomorrow fiction

in the 1500's...it was a fact that the earth stood still and the Sun moved around the Earth

until Galileo came around and said the earth moved instead...he was brought by the Inquisition and tried with lots of facts
and was found guilty

I know Thomas D you know all the facts
Do you know what is fake you do know what is fake? :shock:
just remember NASA said there was no water on the moon in the 1900's and today we found surprise that is NOT a fact

Sometimes Historical Fiction is closer to the truth than the historical account
because if the person who wrote the truth ...would be jailed or imprisoned like Galileo was

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 Post subject: Re: The Castillon Diary: Game Over
PostPosted: 05 Sep 2010 3:30 pm 
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That was brilliant work. Thank you for having the energy to take this on. I thank you and so does Emma Calvé!!!!!! :D :D :D

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