Arcadia Discussion Zone

http://www.allposters.com/-sp/Triumph-of-the-French-People-over-the-Monarchy-Project-For-an-Opera-Curtain-1794-Posters_i4047461_.htm

Jacques Louis David a opera curtain "The Triumph of the French people"
a procession of republican paragons at the center of which is a triumphal car who rolls over the debris of royalty and episocracy...in the front of the chariot muscled patriots about to plunge their swords into hapless fallen monarchs,
all viewed by hapless Hercules on whose lap Liberty and Equality sit ...and then a goddess with a Cornucopia is filled with flowers...me thinks she could pass for Rosemertha but Schama names her Cornelia "War Horn" ...I would argue with him there

pg 830 on Schama's Citizens

whats this opera about
this is all about the religion of the Republic
Robespierre is its prophet and true priest of the Supreme being

and she is in the Virtues of the Republic pg 770 of Schama
On her pedestal with her hat and cornucopia of flowers ...as the people below worship her

Eglantine says it so well "we conceive nothing except by images"
this is the imagery used by the propaganda machine of the republic

so true Eglantine so true

and TCP your not on a agenda are you

this is from Richard Webster a quote on a wonderful thread
Dreamers of the Vine

the goddess came up again in her book





Statue of Rosmerta and Mercury from Autun

her consort Mercury is interesting
She holds the cornucopia and Mercury the patera
A patera was a broad, shallow dish used for drinking, primarily in a ritual context such as a libation. These paterae were often used in Rome.


A bas-relief from Eisenberg (Deyts p.119) shows Mercury to the right and Rosmerta to the left. Rosmerta holds a purse in her right hand and a patera in her left. The inscription (AE 1905, #00058, see below) allows the figure beside Mercury to be confidently identified. In a pair of statues from Paris, one depicting Mercury and the other Rosmerta, she holds a cornucopia and a basket of fruits.

Rosmerta is shown by herself on a bronze statue from Fins d'Annency, where she sits on a rock holding a purse and, unusually, also bears the wings of Mercury on her head; and on a stone bas-relief from Escolives-Sainte-Camille (Deyts pp. 120-121) where she holds both a patera and a cornucopia.

Who is she Gallic/Celtic /Greek
her consort Mercury ...is Greek
Jufer and Luginbühl list 27 inscriptions to Rosmerta (p.60) from France, Germany and Luxembourg, corresponding mainly to the provinces of Gallia Belgica and Germania Superior. An additional two inscriptions are known, one from Dacia (AE 1998, #01100). The following inscriptions are typical: the first is from Metz (CIL 13, #04311 ) and the second is from Eisenberg:

Deo Mercurio et Rosmertae / Musicus Lilluti fil(ius) et sui(s) ex voto

Deo Mercu(rio) / et Rosmer(tae) / M(arcus) Adiuto/rius Mem/{m}or d(ecurio) c(ivitatis) St() / [po]s(uit) l(ibens) m(erito)

In two inscriptions (CIL 13, #04683 and CIL 13, 04705, both from Gallia Belgica) Rosmerta is given the epithet sacrum (sacred). This more lengthy inscription (CIL 13, #04208; AE 1967, #00320; AE 1987 #00771) from Wasserbillig in Gallia Belgica associates Rosmerta with the founding of a hospital:

Deo Mercurio [et deae Ros]/mertae aedem c[um signis orna]/mentisque omn[ibus fecit] / Acceptus tabul[arius VIvir] / Augustal[is donavit?] / item hospitalia [sacror(um) cele]/brandorum gr[atia pro se libe]/risque suis ded[icavit 3] / Iulias Lupo [et Maximo co(n)s(ulibus)]

The name is Gaulish, and is analysed as ro-smert-a. Smert means 'provider' or 'carer' and is also found in other Gaulish names such as Ad-smerio, Smertu-litani, Smerius, Σμερο, Smertae, Smertus, etc. (Delamarre p.277). Ro- is a modifier meaning 'very' 'great' or 'most' as found in Ro-bili ('most-good'), Ro-cabalus ('great horse'), Ρο-βιος ('great life') (Delamarre pp. 261-2). The -a ending is the typical Gaulish feminine singular nominative. The meaning is thus 'the Great Provider' and this accords well with her attributes.




Map showing the location of inscriptions dedicated to Rosmerta (in red), as well as to Cantismerta (green) and Atesmerta (blue).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosmerta



She is associated with Mercury...he is Greek and Roman...Rosemerta ...was Gaul/Greek/Roman

Her partner

Visucius was a Gallo-Roman god, usually identified with Mercury. He was worshipped primarily in the east of Gaul, around Trier and on the Rhine; his name is recorded on about ten dedicatory inscriptions. One such inscription has also been found in Bordeaux. Visucius is, along with Gebrinius and Cissonius, among the most common indigenous epithets of the Gaulish Mercury.[1]

The name has sometimes been interpreted as meaning "of the ravens"[2] or "knowledgeable";[3] cf. the Proto-Celtic roots *weiko- 'raven' and *witsu- 'knowing'.[4]

The variant or mistaken spelling Visuclus is also attested.[5]

In one inscription, Visucius has the epithet Solitumarus; the same inscription also honours Jupiter Optimus Maximus and Apollo.[5]

Another inscription is co-dedicated to Sancta Visucia, as well as to Mercurius Visucius.[6] This goddess, apparently a companion or analogue of Visucius, has sometimes been likened to Rosmerta or Maia, who also accompany Mercury on many Gaulish dedications.

One inscription dedicated to Visugius has also been found at Agoncillo in Spain; this may perhaps refer to the same deity.[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visucia

Uisucius
AKA Mercury Visucius

Maia(Rosemerta)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maia_%28mythology%29

in Greek mythology, was the eldest of the Pleiades, the seven daughters of Atlas[2] and Pleione.[3] She and her sisters, born on Mount Cyllene in Arcadia, are sometimes called mountain goddesses, oreads, for Simonides of Ceos sang of "mountain Maia" (Maia oureias) "of the lively black eyes".[4] Maia was the oldest, most beautiful and shyest. Aeschylus repeatedly identified her with Gaia.

Perhaps meaning "Mercury of the Ravens." His worship was clustered along the Rhine, but one inscription is from Bordeaux, and one from northern Spain.

If his name does refer to ravens, and given his worship on the border between the Gauls and Germans, this would make an interesting parallel to that of Odinn (Germanic Wotan), that other Mercurial figure, who is said to have two ravens on his shoulder, Hugin (thought) and Mugin (memory), who each day fly around the world and deliver Odinn news.



http://andrewgough.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2665&hilit=Dreamer+of+the+vine

I got the great pleasure of seeing Van Dyck's
Saint Rosalie in Glory

http://blogs.chron.com/artsinhouston/2009/04/why_van_dycks_st_rosalie_appea.html
She reminds me of someone who lived in a cave ...the picture is of flowing reddish gold hair, a crown of roses and a skull and cross bones
got to see it up close too

Rosalia was the daughter of Duke Sinibaldo, Lord of the Quisquina and the Roses, who was a cousin of King William II of Sicily.
In 1625 the city of Palermo on the Island of Sicily was suffering a period of plague. Saint Rosalia appeared in a vision to a hunter near a cave just outside of the city. Based on the vision the hunter went into the cave and discovered her remains. The following inscription was carved into the wall:

"I, Rosalia, daughter of Sinibald, Lord of Roses, and Quisquina, have taken the resolution to live in this cave for the love of my Lord, Jesus Christ."

Her relics were paraded through the streets of the city and three days later the plague miraculously ended. Her intercession was credited with saving the city and she was declared the Patroness of Palermo.

Sinibald, Lord of Roses, and his wife, Quisquina were believed to be descendants of Charlemagne, the first emperor of the Holy Roman Empire. They were prominent citizens in Palermo during the Twelfth century.

It is believed that Rosalia left her life in Palermo to live alone in the mountains practicing penitential acts so as to live in closer communion with God. She died in the cave around 1160 AD

You'd likely have to argue with Jacques-Louis David as well, as if the artist couldn't possibly have known or understood what his own intentions were.

TCP

Actually, Mercury is Roman, his Greek personification is Hermes.

The most common association of the Roman Mercury is with the Gallic Teutates.

You really don't seem to have any interest in - or, perhaps, use for - the concept of forced synchronization between Roman deities and the local gods in areas of conquest, which was a useful tool for the subjugation of captive peoples. Is it not useful to you, or is it over your head?

TCP

This quote is strange, very strange...

...You really don't seem to have any interest in - or, perhaps, use for - the concept of forced synchronization between Roman deities and the local gods in areas of conquest, which was a useful tool for the subjugation of captive peoples. Is it not useful to you, or is it over your head?

Tim is assuming the locals can't tell which god was Roman which were their local deities. Its broad sweeps like these which tells me Tim is out wingin' it on a prayer and hopes no buddy catches his agenda pitch.

Each of the conquered areas had contacts with outsiders. Some areas that were in convenient 'attack lanes' had been subsumed many times and got a plethora of these cultural tidbits to chit chat 'boot over an open hearth. Subjugation was by the sword, not by a flippant mention of yer fav'rit pagan 'thang'.

This name droppin' may have current applications in Hollyweird, but I doubt barbarians then were media savvy.

mercury was a messenger, and a god of trade, the son of Maia Maiestas and Jupiter in Roman mythology. His name is related to the Latin word merx ("merchandise"; compare merchant, commerce, etc.), mercari (to trade), and merces (wages). In his earliest forms, he appears to have been related to the Etruscan deity Turms, but most of his characteristics and mythology were borrowed from the analogous Greek deity, Hermes.

Like Hermes, he was also a messenger of the gods and a god of trade, particularly of the grain trade. Mercury was also considered a god of abundance and commercial success, particularly in Gaul. He was also, like Hermes, the Romans' psychopomp, leading newly-deceased souls to the afterlife. Additionally, Ovid wrote that Mercury carried Morpheus' dreams from the valley of Somnus to sleeping humans.[3]


When they described the gods of Celtic and Germanic tribes, rather than considering them separate deities, the Romans interpreted them as local manifestations or aspects of their own gods, a cultural trait called the interpretatio Romana. Mercury in particular was reported as becoming extremely popular among the nations the Roman Empire conquered; Julius Caesar wrote of Mercury being the most popular god in Britain and Gaul, regarded as the inventor of all the arts.[5] This is probably because in the Roman syncretism, Mercury was equated with the Celtic god Lugus, and in this aspect was commonly accompanied by the Celtic goddess Rosmerta. Although Lugus may originally have been a deity of light or the sun (though this is disputed), similar to the Roman Apollo, his importance as a god of trade and commerce made him more comparable to Mercury, and Apollo was instead equated with the Celtic deity Belenus.[3]

Romans associated Mercury with the Germanic god Wotan, by interpretatio Romana; 1st-century Roman writer Tacitus identifies him as the chief god of the Germanic peoples.

n Celtic areas, Mercury was sometimes portrayed with three heads or faces, and at Tongeren, Belgium, a statuette of Mercury with three phalli was found, with the extra two protruding from his head and replacing his nose; this was probably because the number 3 was considered magical, making such statues good luck and fertility charms. The Romans also made widespread use of small statues of Mercury, probably drawing from the ancient Greek tradition of hermae markers.



A three-headed image of a Celtic deity found in Paris; interpreted as Mercury and now believed to represent Lugus

t is possible that Lugus was a triune god, comprising Esus, Toutatis and Taranis, the three chief deities mentioned by Lucan. The "threefold death" in Celtic human sacrifice may reflect the triplicity of this god.

Sacred sites

High places (Mercurii Montes), including Montmartre, the Puy-de-Dôme and the Mont de Sène, were dedicated to him.
Lughnasadh ("Festival of Lugh") in Ireland, was commemorated on 1 August. When the Emperor Augustus inaugurated Lugdunum ("fort of Lugus", now Lyon) as the capital of Roman Gaul in 18 BC, he did so with a ceremony on 1 August (this may be purely coincidental, however). At least two of the ancient Lughnasadh locations, Carmun and Tailtiu, were supposed to enclose the graves of goddesses linked with terrestrial fertility.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lugus


Now if I was a corporation the god I would choose would be Mercury
he was a mischief maker and he was god of thieves
he stole for fun

Fascists seek to organize a nation according to corporatist perspectives, values, and systems, including the political system and the economy.

Fascists support a "Third Position" in economic policy, which they believe superior to both the rampant individualism of laissez-faire capitalism and the severe control of state socialism

and to make a point about Mercury and fascism
lets look at America
Mercury dime



The Fasces

The traditional Roman fasces consisted of a bundle of white birch rods, tied together with a red leather ribbon into a cylinder, and often including a bronze axe (or sometimes two) amongst the rods, with the blade(s) on the side, projecting from the bundle.[3] It was used as a symbol of the Roman Republic

Fasces are included in the national emblem of the French Republic.

even the Knights of Columbus



The Mace of the House of Representatives


on the Lincoln Memorial

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lincoln_Memorial_Inside.jpg

Some people don't know this but America isn't a democracy...its a Republic
the President isn't elected by the most votes of Americans
he becomes president by the most votes in the electoral college

Indeed. And a damned annoying cultural trait too.



Who likewise is derived from the pre-Celtic goddess Erce.



Which is rather ridiculous, considering the pre-Celtic origin of Belenus, or Bel, and the fact that his name never meant "shining" or "light" or anything solar, but "black"- same with his consort Belisenna.

TCP

Yo Tim, I find some aspects of this rather amusing dude. If ya look at how Tsarion presents his 'facts' and take on al of this Irish-celt biz he sees it in reverse order to what you mentioned.

Tsarion goes out from a much older tradition which went from the west to the east and then it became modified as it came back westward again. Yes, he documents the entire process. Do I agree with his pagan take on it all, no.. but the rest is definitely a do-able

Seein' as how Tsarion is as rabid a pagan as Roscoe claims to be, ya can see within the modern pagan-heathen realm the range of opinions is as great as the the number of Protestant sects that have come into being based on a single notion out of the Bible.

This tells me Tim, yer take is not on as solid ground as ya may think, Tsarion has a counter claim to much of what ya say here.I do not have Tsarion's major opus in front of me, but I recall him mentioning a spiraling-swirling effect taking place as the Irish thrust eastward post Atlantis period that it went down to the North African coast area to Egypt and came up thru Italy and the Balkans to get intermingled with the swarms of tribes comin' from the far east, these in turn got caught up with the swarms of post atlantis period folk tryin' to avoid bein' subsumed by the waves of invaders from the east.

The interminglin' with already intermingled waves of migration create the notion it all started in the far east, yes? Tsarion sez why was there such a ready acceptance of all of these ancient held proto-history Irish pagan belief structures as depicted by cave paintings in France + Spain which pre-date any of the subsequent swarms of Celts ya mention.

This aspect is conveniently avoided whenever the celts or their own progenitors are discussed.

Tsarion is pursuing his own agenda without benefit of scientific corroboration.

TCP

Well Tim, Tsarion has the linguistic elements based on extant pre-historic Irish, pre-celtic as occurin' prior to similar items appearin' in Egypt. That is one of several 'scientific' fact claims he makes.

I don't deny he has an agenda, that is loud + clear. He comes across like Roscoe,... its all pagan and stolen from them.

So he claims, but it's hogwash. Tsarion has about as much credibility as the Abbé Boudet did when he claimed that the ancient Celts spoke modern English.

TCP

Tim, let's put it this way. Tsarion published several tomes 'boot this stuff and I haven't come across any hostility against him to match what Gardner got when he was hypin' ye royal dwarf of Albany.

Since Tsarion posted his videos to You Tube, the royals haven't demanded that they be taken down. That alone helps his cause, yes?

I ain't into the pagan scene like you, Tsarion, Roscoe, Sandy, DVB and I am sure others on the forum into that genre who have their own pet theories, all equally valid, yes? If ya notice, I didn't include the Hi-gate hi-jinx krowd, they are in an orbit of their own makin'.

If we are to sample the folks with a pagan predilection and rate Tsarion for historical accuracy how would he fare?

That's likely because Tsarion is a New Age guru (and that's an insult to most New Age gurus) who isn't given the time of day outside of a very small circle of tinfoil hat enthusiasts. Serious people ignore him. Gardner, on the other hand, presented himself as a reputable scholar and historian seeking to break into a much more serious and qualified field of inquiry. He got noticed, and knocked back down to size in the process.



Why would they? They certainly didn't give a flying fig about Gardner's Stewart "pretender" so what makes you think they even know who Michael Tsarion is? David Icke called them all reptilian aliens and he's still on YouTube. How does this enhance Tsarion's credibility?



Equally valid? I think the term you might be struggling for is "accurate" - and Tsarion's swill is not in the least bit accurate.

And by the way, Tsarion's backwash doesn't fit the pagan brand, so making such comparisons is pointless.

TCP

Isn't it fascinating that on the Knights of Columbus logo the fascia of Rome is on there

and it isn't just America
France has it too

its also for the Canton of St Gallen Switzerland

following the Roman Empire's symbols
A message of United we are stronger

Lovuian, there is a'nuvver viewpoint ya overlooked, namely how the freemasons created safe havens in places like Sweden + Switzerland. This fascism biz has a lot to do with it.

Britannica Concise Encyclopedia: fascism

Philosophy of government that stresses the primacy and glory of the state, unquestioning obedience to its leader, subordination of the individual will to the state's authority, and harsh suppression of dissent. Martial virtues are celebrated, while liberal and democratic values are disparaged. Fascism arose during the 1920s and '30s partly out of fear of the rising power of the working classes; it differed from contemporary communism (as practiced under Joseph Stalin) by its protection of business and landowning elites and its preservation of class systems. The leaders of the fascist governments of Italy (1922 – 43), Germany (1933 – 45), and Spain (1939 – 75) — Benito Mussolini, Adolf Hitler, and Francisco Franco — were portrayed to their publics as embodiments of the strength and resolve necessary to rescue their nations from political and economic chaos. Japanese fascists (1936 – 45) fostered belief in the uniqueness of the Japanese spirit and taught subordination to the state and personal sacrifice. See also totalitarianism; neofascism.

If ya notice, no mention of napoleon and his national state with its structure conforming to the description above.

Check out these takes on fascism...
http://jonjayray.tripod.com/sweden.html
http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Fascism.html

There is a tendency to wanna see only the Italian variant and overlook all the other variations. IMHO the federation concept of Switzerland is the oldest continuous form of fascism in the EU arena. Sweden was fashioned into a fascist setup back in the 1880's.

The belligerent nations which tooted the fascist horn to include the U.S have always been controlled by a small top elite. The silly notion of democracy to select a house if marionettes is the biggest farce of all. When I read all the bullshit so-called history texts proclaiming the democratic transfer of power to a house of marionettes is a clear example as to how the top elite control info.

Put it this way. When the masons deposed the royals the French Rev, what did tey do? they had to find a way to get rid of the radical masons, read Robespierre + friends, by more controllable masons, led by Napoleon's coterie. It was a mason power play all along.

The same mason game was played 'tween masomic UK + masonic controlled amareekin colonials. ...same shit, just a different day. Even the Rooski's followed this pattern. Look at CFR, Trilat Com, Bilderbergers,etc, they are all part of this mason top elite.

Don't bother askin' to join, if yer the person they need ye'll be given an offer ya can't refuse.

The fasces represent the Roman Republic which preceded the Roman Empire.

TCP

http://www.languedoc-france.info/06141214_fasces.htm

for anyone interested in the subject.

But the electoral college is elected by citizen vote, and while they are free to choose whichever candidate they will, there is pressure on them to vote for the majority choice of their constituents?

Yeah Thorleif, all kinds a 'thangs' can happen when the stakes are that high... like them dicey hole punching mechanisms that leave a mark called a chad on a ballot. Florida had a monopoly on them in the Bush-Gore election. Then later on Diebold supposedly 'fine tuned the voting machines, the next election around. Ohio was mysteriously selected as being the pivotal, decidin' vote state, and as luck would have it, Ohio had a monopoly on dicey machines in that election.

http://www.howstuffworks.com/electoral-college.htm

I can imagine in the next comin' election that old fossil McCain will be foisted on folks again, along with Caribou Barbie. I can foresee McCain winning, then have a heart attack the minute after he is sworn in, so that an additional swear in can take place so that pallid Palin becomes the last U.S Prez, before the Republic disintegrates into anarchy. Ye olde sayin' of... shit happens, comes to mind.

Switzerland, like all modern EU area countries is controlled on all sides of the political spectrum by freemasons, so in actuality its merely a crap shoot, and slowly the opposition craps out.

Sheila says:

Well I am. And this is another reality:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/08/ ... adism.html

Regards to all

Wombat.

Okay, i admit i'm not very good with humour and leg-pulling and all that but, ...hope you're not advocating what i just read in your article....the sound of "good old fairplay America" blowing it's own trumpet...





What a load of LIES!
please tell me i've missed the humour?

Brought to you by GOLDLINE... (oh, help!)

TCP