Arcadia Discussion Zone

[4:157] And for claiming that they killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of GOD. In fact, they never killed him, they never crucified him - they were made to think that they did. All factions who are disputing in this matter are full of doubt concerning this issue. They possess no knowledge; they only conjecture. For certain, they never killed him.

The Templars said that the man that Pilate crucified was not Jesus Christ.

Did they?
Do you have a reference for that please?

so thats a NO then .....thought so

So, tell me why 1.5 billion muslims are told that Jesus wasn't crucified?

The same reason why billions of Christians believe he was 'resurrected'. Because they have been indoctrinated into their beliefs.

Hows that?

And while we are at it, who cares if 1.5 billion muslims dont believe Jesus was crucified. Were they there? Do they really know? Does anyone really know what happened? Why does citing what 1.5 billion muslims believe have any bearing at all on what happened 2000 years ago?

And for that matter, what did the Knights Templar 'really know'? 1000 years after the event?

Your arguments are never good enough Roscoe.

You dont think for yourself. You just spout these irrelevancies and from that we are suppose to think there is a big conspiracy .....you could have all the documents in the world and you would never know.

The Romans were excellent managers and kept good records. If we turned up a lost dossier of Roman files about crucifixions that took place between AD30 and AD33 in Judaea we would have alot more to go on!And that is the sort of evidence we need.

And i bet the name Jesus Christ would not be even listed .... it would be under a different name for a start *sigh*

How's that for thinking for myself?

Yeh, its about your level!

The Vatican has produced 800 documents showing the Templar Trials for public scrutiny.

yes i know, i have seen them....have you?

would bet that you haven't.

Have I seen them? What would you have me say? If I said yes then you wouldn't believe me, if I said no I wouldn't be telling the truth.

You acquiring a high opinion of me does not ride high in my ambitions.

You are so monotonous and boring.
You always resort to this kind of stuff.

Tingra, i asked him exactly the same about his stupid reference quote about the Temlars before, and this is what he said too.

Roscoe, no one has a high opinion of you at all. And no-one gives a shite about what you have to say, because you dont know what you are talking about.

Go and play with Rennes and Dippity and Lovuian

Roscoe's reference seems to be the Chinon Absolution parchment. Obviously, Roscoe has never read the document. Besides, if he can't use it, he'll merely say it's a Roman Church conspiracy.

One cannot rationally argue with someone who isn't at all rational.

I not only read it, but held it in my hand before you'd ever heard of it.
It isn't what you seem to think it is.

IF the Templars had ever promoted that well-known Islamic belief, THEN it would be a
'fact'. HOWEVER, since they did not ever promote such a belief, then it remains a Roscovian FANTASY.

Like pretty much all of your fanciful re-writing of history (yes, poppet, they WERE Benedictines. those "mysterious" Orval monks!)

Dont try to change the subject, where is YOUR proof that the Templars didnt believe Jesus was crucified Roscoe?
cmon, practice what you preach.....show us the evidence.
You accuse everyone else of lying so show us your proof you have seen those documents that incidently DO NOT say anything about the Templars denying the crucifiction, this is your chance to redeem yourself

No problem

Right after you show me your PROOF that Jesus ever existed. That's ramming your double standards right where the sun don't shine.

Concerning Jesus' executioner, Pontius Pilate, we have a considerable body of data that contradicts the largely sympathetic portrayal of him in the New Testament. Even among the long line of cruel procurators who ruled Judea, Pilate stood out as a notoriously vicious man. He eventually was replaced after murdering a group of Samaritans: The Romans realized that keeping him in power would only provoke continual rebellions. The gentle, kindhearted Pilate of the New Testament—who in his "heart of hearts" really did not want to harm Jesus is fictional. Like most fictions, the story was created with a purpose. When the New Testament was written, Christianity was banned by Roman law. The Romans, well aware that they had executed Christianity's founder—indeed the reference to Jesus' crucifixion by the Roman historian Tacitus is among the earliest allusions to him outside the New Testament—had no reason to rescind their anti-Christian legislation. Christianity's only hope for gaining legitimacy was to "prove" to Rome that its crucifixion of Jesus had been a terrible error, and had only come about because the Jews forced Pilate to do it. Thus, the New Testament depicts Pilate as wishing to spare Jesus from punishment, only to be stymied by a large Jewish mob yelling, "Crucify him." The account ignores one simple fact. Pilate's power in Judea was absolute. Had he wanted to absolve Jesus, he would have done so: He certainly would not have allowed a mob of Jews, whom he detested, to force him into killing someone whom he admired.

Crucifixion itself, a Roman form of execution, was forbidden by Jewish law because it was torture. Some 50,000 to 100,000 Jews were themselves crucified by the Romans in the first century. How ironic, therefore, that Jews have historically been associated with the cross as the ones who brought about Jesus' crucifixion.

And?
Where is the PROOF that the Templars denied the crucifiction?
practice what you preach....show the evidence.

I've already told you where to look. Are you terminally stupid or what?