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 Post subject: Re: LA SANG
PostPosted: 10 Jan 2010 6:48 pm 
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Thanks Tingra.

Here's a computer generated Babelfishtype translation..... so it's probably complete gobbledegook....but folk can get the gist me thinks.






"Brotherhood of La Sang, Llíria



The Franciscans of the convent of Llíria
"Drivers of the Brotherhood of the Blood?



Too often things are written about times past without a critical sense and that only a repetition-often plagiarized-from what others have written before. Studying historical societies is not a detailed description-sometimes tormenting-of events, buildings, characters and curious things considered, written in language that is indigestible heavy on the second line. The story is not to look barren and dry recreation of the past, but has to ask, interpret and reflect on past events to understand and help advance the process of knowledge of mankind.

Pardon the brief theoretical introduction, because I know that this book is not the most appropriate parties to make these reflections. But I consider necessary to understand what my attitude when modest attempt to study some aspects of the history of this town.



THE INHERITANCE OF FRANCISCAN



The history of recent centuries Llíria can not understand without understanding the influence exerted on the two llirianos installed Llíria mendicant orders in the second half of the sixteenth century. As you know, the Franciscans were first and then the Trinidadians who are temporarily placed in the "Font de Sant Vicent", "Fuente de San Vicente, during the second half of the sixteenth century. Later, already in the seventeenth century, they moved permanently to the gates of the town of Llíria. From the outset, the pastoral task of the religious began to influence social and religious life of those llirianos. This influence continues until the final secularization of the monks in 1835, is still present in the current Llíria walking towards the beginning of the third millennium.

Among the influences left by the Franciscan convents and Trinidadians have obviously disseminate their main avatars: "La Purisima" and "La Mare de Deu del Remei" with its corresponding Marian confraternities. Also worth noting the geographical division of people into two well-defined neighborhoods, "La Part de Dalt or Raval" and "Part of Baix," the top or Arrabal and bottom. But also the formation of two bands with the guilds that inherited the original spirit of rivalry that possessed the two mendicant convents. Ultimately the monks contributed to the embryo in Llíria exist in the future a kind of society from social anthropology semicomunal is called, which means divided into two opposing parties and rivals.

But in this book "Purissima" speak undoubtedly some influences only left us by the Franciscans. This order was one of the most influential in the medieval history of the Kingdom of Valencia. It was also the largest order in rural Spain. A popular saying sums up their strong presence:

"Qui per fra, qui per germa,

what is francisca tot mon.


"Whoever by friar, who by brother

everyone is a Franciscan "

Also, the city was richer, more Franciscans had. This is evident in the case of Llíria during the eighteenth century was a golden age for economic and population growth. However, in some years, and in 1870 the monastery came to have 82 Alcantarines religious and was considered one of the most important houses of the Franciscan province barefoot.

The first community of observant Franciscans who moved into the Fountain of St. Vincent was in 1562, on land ceded to them by the town. But 9 years later abandoned partly through unsafe place. In 1574 he held the Convento de San Vicente a new community of Franciscans, but this time the branch of the Alcantarines or barefoot. Eight years later he turned to leave, it seems that for the same reason than before. Already in 1603 finally found a community of Alcantarines inhabiting the new convent located just outside Llíria, on land also gave them the town. This attitude of municipal authorities was normal at that time, as the mendicant orders were the most requested by the people to pay them founded convents and spiritual services.

But let us now what interests us and talk about the influences exerted on the Franciscans Llíria City. In the book of festivals last year and I was able to write about the foundation of Confraternity of the Immaculate that established on December 8, 1664 in the parish of the Assumption. He commented that the fraternity was founded at a time of intense excitement and fervor immaculate in the various kingdoms of Spain, but also had to be mindful of the contribution and work of evangelization of the Franciscan convent of Llíria Alcantarines. In short, he ended by saying that the present Court of Mary can be considered the spiritual heir of that tradition llirianos immaculate emerged with the strength in times of Baroque.

The influence of Franciscan spirituality is also now observed in the presence of Calvary in Santa Barbara, built in the "Part Raval de Dalt or" zone of Alcantarines domain. Keep in mind that the Franciscan Order as we shall see later, was marked by the cult of painful Passion of Christ. The practice of ordeal was broadcast throughout Europe by the Franciscans, which since the thirteenth century were appointed custodians of the holy places of the Holy Land, by a bull from the year 1230 by Pope Gregory IX.



THE FOUNDATION OF THE BROTHERHOOD OF THE BLOOD OF JESUS



Personally I think there's another major influence on the Franciscan llirianos that until now nobody had noticed I refer to the founding of a new brotherhood of penitents name of "Jesus Christ Sang" already existed in the year 1574 and that has reached today with the name Brotherhood of the Holy Blood of Jesus Christ, "Blessed Sang Confradia of Jesus Christ." My hypothesis is that this new Brotherhood of Blood, came as a result of the work of evangelization of the Observant Franciscans first installed in the Fuente de San Vicente. To detect this influence is not necessary that any ancient document certifying the quote, because if ever the case, everything would be too easy. Simply understanding the social context of the time, bearing in mind some dates, re-reading a document and knowing where he walked Franciscan spirituality, one can deduce that the Brotherhood of Blood, owes its existence to work early the Franciscans exercised over those llirianos the time of rebirth.

Reading a document of 1574 deposited in the Archives of the Kingdom of Valencia in 1973 and published in the book of Sang de Luis Marti, offered some suggestions for my thesis. To understand my approach, and then briefly summarize the information you provide the document dated April 15, 1574. At that time there was a brotherhood in Llíria paraded in the processions of Holy Week and it was called "Brotherhood of Jesus Christ," which had its head office in the building known as "House of Jesus Christ." This brotherhood was founded in 1401 and was legalized for all purposes, statutes and ordinances passed by the competent authority. The document, which as I said is dated 1574, says that since a few years ago existed in Llíria a group of young singles that were intended to publicly disciplined in the procession on Good Friday. These young penitents, self-called brotherhood of alleged Brotherhood of the Blood of Jesus Christ. But members of the old Confraternity of Jesus Christ, in contempt, refusing to exist in Liria a Brotherhood of Blood with Casa own statutes approved. The following document outlines a conflict between the House of Jesus Christ and assumptions Brethren of Blood, when the latter wanted to use the community center and site of the first exit to join the procession on Good Friday. Finally got the Blood to storm the headquarters of the House of Jesus Christ by using a counterfeit keys. This prompted a lawsuit brought to justice and that is reflected in the document named. In short, that document, what interests us are the following items hold:

- That a few years before in 1574 he formed a new group of Liria's mission penitents flagellating themselves participate in the procession on Good Friday.

- The members of this group of penitents recently proclaimed brotherhood of a new brotherhood with the title of the Blood of Jesus Christ.

- The components of the new Brotherhood of Blood, had no community center, or statute and therefore were not legalized.

- The Brethren of the Blood of Jesus Christ did not get along with other colleagues in the century-old brotherhood of Jesus Christ.

After having removed the paper from 1574 the most interesting, as it can advance the hypothesis that the formation of this group of penitents-base of the new Brotherhood of the Blood-emerge as a result of the work of evangelization, and in particular pious practices promulgated by the friars of the Franciscan convent of Observant installed on the Source of St. Vincent from 1562 to 1571. But the approach of this hypothesis must reinforce it with more arguments than are those who argue in the next point.



THE CULT OF THE ISSUES AND THE ROLE PASSIONIST of penitents.



First, keep in mind the primitive Passionist vocation of the Franciscan order. As I said before, the Franciscans, which since the thirteenth century were the guardians of the holy places in the Holy Land in a special way were characterized by a fervent cult taxed the painful passion of Jesus Christ, although this practice was common to all mendicant orders. I remember, for example, San Francisco intense identification with the Passion of Christ. One of the most popular passages in the life of San Francisco, is referring to the stigma, when the friar suffered in her own body the pain that Jesus felt at the crucifixion. This is one of the most typical images of the iconography of San Francisco and is represented at Mount Alverno with the five wounds of Christ crucified printed on the hands, feet and side. Popular devotion to the five wounds, was also released by the Franciscans of the thirteenth century with the support of various Popes who spent a day in the calendar, so that the Church will celebrate this devotion. Among the various devices used by the Brotherhood of the Blood of Llíria is the representation of the five wounds that already appear in old prints. Other times it represents San Francisco with a cross in the hand or kneeling before Christ on the cross and nailed an arm in an attempt to embrace him. The Passionist tradition of the Franciscans was seen during the second half of the fifteenth century in the interest shown in a special way to promote devotion to the Cross and Passion. Among the devotions Passionist who spread the mendicant orders and especially the Franciscans, began to excel in those days the cult of the Precious Blood of Jesus Christ. But the issue of the Blood of Christ had been previously doctrinal controversy between the Dominicans and the Franciscans. Previously, these two mendicant orders, also maintained on the theological controversy inmacularidad Mary. And now again we find the Franciscans and Dominicans left facing doctrinally on whether or not the Divine Blood of Christ shed on the Passion and separated from his body. The controversy ended with the intervention of Pope Pius II in 1464. Curiously, the Franciscans were the branch of the observant, the same as those installed in the convent of San Vicente, the most prominent defenders of the theme of the Blood of Christ and the followers of the mystical view of San Buenaventura, when he said in one of his books: "Wine is the image of blood removed from the cluster, ie the body of Christ, pressed by the Jews at the winepress of the Cross.

Needless to say, in the fifteenth century the attitude and mentality of man before his death had changed as a result of wars, plagues, and epidemics. Now death is conceived more dramatically, as the greatest human tragedy. The religiosity of this era was marked by a popular mysticism which sought to imitate Christ. There was widespread the cult of "Seven Words of Christ on the Cross", but also to the vessels of the cross as the nails and crown of thorns.

As a result of diffusion across the passion that we observed, from the sixteenth century began to rely (often with the support of the Franciscans) early confraternities of penitents in the Iberian Peninsula adopted the name Brotherhood of the Blood of Jesus Christ or also de la Vera Cruz and had the mission of public flogging practice regularly. It is true that during the fifteenth century and existed in some cities in mainland guilds with the name of Vera Cruz and Blood of Jesus Christ. However, following the work of American anthropologist William Chistian and other prestigious Spanish researchers, the formal establishment of confraternities of penitents with the name of Vera Cruz and Blood of Jesus Christ who had publicly lashed innovative mission in the Holy Week processions, no been documented in the Iberian Peninsula until the sixteenth century. Thus, the Brotherhood of the Blood of Jesus Christ of Valencia was established in 1535. Also during this century guilds are founded largely Blood Valencia city: the Alcoi formed in 1545, Cullera did in 1546, the de Sagunto know with certainty that operated in 1570. Other stocks that had been Denia, Pego, Enguera ... The de Requena was established in 1560 under the name "Vera Cruz or Blood of Christ our Lord." The one we have seen Llíria was founded a few years before 1574. It tells the eighteenth century Dominican historian Josep Teixidor, which, with both growing devotion to the Blood of Christ, they pleaded with Pope Paul III to Valencia instituted the Feast of the Blood, which was achieved in 1540.

Despite all this, some authors find the source of such fraternities in the period of the conquest of Catalonia and Aragon, and others-as thought in the eighteenth century scholar-Orellana back to the missions of San Vicente Ferrer. However, do agree that most current researchers is to consider the sixteenth century as the era of expanding Passionist confraternities of penitents. As regards the case of Llíria, is highly questionable to attribute the origin of the brotherhood of penitents of Blood to the time when St. Vincent visited our city back in 1410. The old fraternity of Jesus Christ founded the 1401 does not appear to practice public flogging and we have to move to the year 1574 to find Llíria the existence of the first Passionist brotherhood of penitents.

The practice of flogging as a secular discipline, not monastic or ascetic, is much older than the time of St. Vincent, since 1258 was diffused from Perugia (Italy) to much of Europe. During the fourteenth and fifteenth century in Spain was celebrated flogging only on special occasions. Referring to the Crown of Aragon, there was already a tradition of penitents who made an appearance at times of major crises or during the preaching of St. Vincent Ferrer. For all that, King Juan I allowed the use of public flogging in 1394. The very popular sermons of St. Vincent fit frame them within a society facing a grave social crisis, economic and religious. So when the Dominican saint preached around everywhere, it was a crowd of penitents and flagellants, when they came to some people were accustomed to make processions in which flogged yelling "Mercy" and then St. Vincent preached. This had to happen in the summer of 1410 when the Dominican friar Llíria visited with the intention of moving in a procession of rogation to the dry fountain in order to bring out the water.

The new confraternities of penitents had significant success in the sixteenth century, to the point that flogging became an institution within these guilds. There was a parallel between the practice of flogging and the Passion of Christ. The penitents shed their blood in imitation of Christ and with intent to redeem their sins. The de Requena, for example, flagellation procession celebrating the night of Holy Thursday as follows: disciplining penitents marching, others impaled, and various ways of mortification, such as iron chains, ropes, hair shirts, etc ... "

But let us return to the thrust of this article and remember that the busiest period of the flagellants with the foundation of confraternities of penitents of the Blood of Jesus Christ, was in the sixteenth century, when it was founded in Llíria the new Brotherhood of Blood . The use of public flogging new brotherhoods involved in conducting such a break with previous practices of piety. For this reason the new lliriana Blood Brotherhood clashed violently with those of the Brotherhood of Jesus Christ because they both had a different vision of pious practices. The emergence of the Brotherhood of the Blood-social homeless in principle, statutes and approval confirms that officer was in a period of training. He was also a fraternity where members highlighted by youth, ie, the sector of the population more objective and more sensitive to innovations. And at that time the practice of flogging in the new brotherhoods passion was the fashion of the moment. Faced with this new attitude were members of the old Confraternity of Jesus Christ since 1401 live together peacefully in his home office. This was a brotherhood veteran of statutes and legalized by the competent authority, but a way of living and practicing different religious piety, if not opposed to the new style of public flogging. The success of the confraternities of penitents of the Blood of Jesus Christ made a rule that had many members, which would explain the force that would take the Blood of Llíria the detriment of the Brotherhood of Jesus Christ. Thus, the decline of the latter would be parallel to the vitality of the first, until it was time that the Brotherhood of Jesus disappeared. The Blood, by contrast, more and more fame, came to use social as the former parish house of St. Mary, to the extent that the guild gave him the temple its name and the church will be known as the Church of the Blood.

Ultimately, after the arguments that have been exposed, you can see more clearly that the 9 years that the Observant Franciscans lived in the convent of San Vicente was enough to spread the devotion in Llíria Passionist issues, and specifically to the Precious Blood of Jesus Christ that was fucking so hard at that time. There is therefore no coincidence that the Observant Franciscans, after 9 years of pastoral life Llíria 1571 and leave the guild was founded a few years before 1574.

Later, the chronicles of the monastery of San Miguel, we know that the devotees of the shrine maintained good relations with the penitents of Llíria. Every third Sunday of Lent the flagellants rose to San Miguel where they sang a Mass with sermon to Archangel. The devotees were also facilitated a series of remedies to cure them of wounds. Do not forget either the good relations existing between the devout and Franciscan spirituality both had a similar and a common project: to live in the ideal of evangelical poverty. Besides the devotees for some time belonged to the Third Order Franciscan and one of the practices of this institution was flogging the Sundays of Advent and Lent.

King Charles III (in the measures adopted by governments to reform the customs illustrated) prohibits the public flogging in 1777, but Pascual Madoz still gives us the news of the existence in Llíria in the early nineteenth century some flagellants since ancient time, every Thursday and Friday, rose to the hermitage of Santa Barbara where the presence of a large audience "were given lashes with iron discipline and a very sharp glass on his back, inflicting terrible injuries, from which sprang lots of blood. " This tradition tells us Madoz, who disappeared from the French war in 1809.

We could go deeper into the topic of penitents and the Brotherhood of Blood, but I prefer to dwell on everything in its origins and foundation, and do not want to tire or exhaust the patience of the reader. Because this article, which I acknowledge is too long, some may find it difficult to understand, but try to say things as clearly as possible to get an understanding the majority.

There will be opportunity at other times to continue talking about the strong influence of the Franciscans in the history of Llíria, because I think his presence is not valued enough in social and religious life of this town. In short, as we have noted throughout this article, the Franciscans not only influenced the devotion to the Immaculate and the existence of the Court of Mary, but also in other institutions which hitherto had not been appointed, as is For the Brotherhood of Blood, which even today enjoys popularity and is rooted in Llíria.

I would like this popular article has enabled them to better understand some aspects of the past Llíria Franciscan. Because everything is not well known can not be estimated and, furthermore, often correctly we must know the past to better understand the present world in which we live.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2010 12:51 pm 
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Grand Master
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tingra wrote:
La Sanch are supposed to be the keepers of THE GREAT RELIC......

anyone any theories to what this relic might be??????
i have read this a few times but never been able to discover much about it. If i had to put money on it i would say its something to do with blood :roll:
Any theories anyone?????


re-read this thread...to coincide with the crista thread (rlc)...

is the crista the relic?

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 Post subject: Re: LA SANG
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2010 1:28 pm 
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Queen Bee
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La Sanch haven't got the Crista.


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 Post subject: Re: LA SANG
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2010 1:30 pm 
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no....but they would really really like it :D


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 Post subject: Re: LA SANG
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2010 2:55 pm 
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well thank goodness!

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 Post subject: Re: LA SANG
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2010 4:10 pm 
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Sheila wrote:
La Sanch haven't got the Crista.


The more unfounded details concerning "La Sanch" I read about here on this forum, the more I believe there must be a parallel universe.

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 Post subject: Re: LA SANG
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2010 6:12 pm 
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Quote:
Le cloître des pendus.

Une fois la sentence de mort portée contre le condamné, les pénitents s’assemblaient autour de son corps, et s’en saisissaient pour le couvrir d’un linceul de leur confection. Ils lui appliquaient également quelques onctions sacrées, puis l’emmenaient dans le cloître « des pendus » afin que le cadavre fasse l’objet du rituel de « mort / réincarnation », adaptation des « mystères chaldéens », que les confrères ne célèbrent qu’en grand secret. Un à un, les pénitents posaient les mains sur le cadavre, puis prononçaient une prière à l’intention du mort. Ensuite, on jetait le défunt dans la tombe du cloître prévue à cet effet, qui s’étendait des abords de l’escalier central jusqu’au puits. La proximité des cadavres avec l’eau potable faisait craindre de la rendre impropre à la consommation, et ainsi des risques d’épidémies. Mais l’amoncellement des ossements non loin d’une source d’eau souterraine n’était pas sans raisons et revêtait un caractère religieux particulier, le puits ayant pour propriété de symboliser la notion même de « baptême mortuaire », rituel Chaldéen bien connu . Aussi ne se souciait-on pas trop des risques et se contentait-on de répandre quelques pelles de chaux vive sur les dépouilles, afin d’en brûler la pourriture. On en conviendra, ces pratiques rituelles et magiques font figure de curiosités, et il serait hasardeux, à première vue, d’en faire une généralité commune à tous les pénitents. Pourtant, nous lisons dans « l’Almanach Catholique Français de l’année 1921 » que d’une façon fort répandue, à l’exemple des pénitents rouges de Limoges, les confrères avaient la permission d’entrer « deux à deux […] dans le lieu où seraient les condamnés à mort pour les consoler […] de les conduire et les accompagner jusqu’au lieu destiné au supplice, et là, après les avoir vus expirer dans les tourments, prendre leurs corps, si autrement n’en est ordonné, pour les inhumer […] Le corps, détaché du gibet ou de la roue, était mis dans la bière par des confrères qui avaient acquis aux enchères le droit de remplir cet office. » La même pratique est décrite dans la revue de 1876 intitulée « Le Magasin Pittoresque », où les pénitents sont encore affublés de la « mission spéciale d’assister les condamnés à mort. A la nouvelle d’une condamnation à la peine capitale, la confrérie nommait douze visiteurs. Ceux-ci, couverts du sac de la pénitence, parcouraient la ville et quêtaient des aumônes […] C’était dans cette confrérie, assure-t-on, à qui s’offrirait pour remplir l’office le plus rebutant, le ministère le plus douloureux. Ainsi, le droit de détacher le supplicié du gibet, de l’ensevelir dans le suaire, était mis à l’encan et adjugé au plus haut enchérisseur. » Il est notable, en suivant ces deux récits, que les activités religieuses des pénitents conservent bien, en toutes circonstances et tous lieux, le caractère mortuaire qui les rend si pittoresques. Ajoutons de même que la notion « d’argent », de « monnayage du salut » revient systématiquement, associée aux fins dernières. Ce point précis, avec d’autres, devra attirer notre attention, car il s’agit là justement de quelques éléments que nous allons retrouver dans la Bible, interdits, car constituant les clefs du rituel Chaldéen des morts.


viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2706&start=0


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 Post subject: Re: LA SANG
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2010 6:31 pm 
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Has anyone found any links on the La Sanch ?
There are pictures on Google but not much information about them?

Kevin


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 Post subject: Re: LA SANG
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2010 7:06 pm 
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http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11638a.htm

"Black penitents
The chief confraternity in this group is that of Misericordia, or of the Beheading of St. John, founded in 1488 to assist and console criminals condemned to death, accompany them to the gallows, and provide for them religious services and Christian burial. The Archconfraternity of Death provides burial and religious services for the poor and those found dead within the limits of the Roman Campagna. Other confraternities of Black Penitents are those of the Crucifix of St. Marcellus, and of Jesus and Mary of St. Giles."

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 Post subject: Re: LA SANG
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2010 7:19 pm 
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Sheila wrote:
Quote:
Le cloître des pendus.

Une fois la sentence de mort portée contre le condamné, les pénitents s’assemblaient autour de son corps, et s’en saisissaient pour le couvrir d’un linceul de leur confection. Ils lui appliquaient également quelques onctions sacrées, puis l’emmenaient dans le cloître « des pendus » afin que le cadavre fasse l’objet du rituel de « mort / réincarnation », adaptation des « mystères chaldéens », que les confrères ne célèbrent qu’en grand secret. Un à un, les pénitents posaient les mains sur le cadavre, puis prononçaient une prière à l’intention du mort. Ensuite, on jetait le défunt dans la tombe du cloître prévue à cet effet, qui s’étendait des abords de l’escalier central jusqu’au puits. La proximité des cadavres avec l’eau potable faisait craindre de la rendre impropre à la consommation, et ainsi des risques d’épidémies. Mais l’amoncellement des ossements non loin d’une source d’eau souterraine n’était pas sans raisons et revêtait un caractère religieux particulier, le puits ayant pour propriété de symboliser la notion même de « baptême mortuaire », rituel Chaldéen bien connu . Aussi ne se souciait-on pas trop des risques et se contentait-on de répandre quelques pelles de chaux vive sur les dépouilles, afin d’en brûler la pourriture. On en conviendra, ces pratiques rituelles et magiques font figure de curiosités, et il serait hasardeux, à première vue, d’en faire une généralité commune à tous les pénitents. Pourtant, nous lisons dans « l’Almanach Catholique Français de l’année 1921 » que d’une façon fort répandue, à l’exemple des pénitents rouges de Limoges, les confrères avaient la permission d’entrer « deux à deux […] dans le lieu où seraient les condamnés à mort pour les consoler […] de les conduire et les accompagner jusqu’au lieu destiné au supplice, et là, après les avoir vus expirer dans les tourments, prendre leurs corps, si autrement n’en est ordonné, pour les inhumer […] Le corps, détaché du gibet ou de la roue, était mis dans la bière par des confrères qui avaient acquis aux enchères le droit de remplir cet office. » La même pratique est décrite dans la revue de 1876 intitulée « Le Magasin Pittoresque », où les pénitents sont encore affublés de la « mission spéciale d’assister les condamnés à mort. A la nouvelle d’une condamnation à la peine capitale, la confrérie nommait douze visiteurs. Ceux-ci, couverts du sac de la pénitence, parcouraient la ville et quêtaient des aumônes […] C’était dans cette confrérie, assure-t-on, à qui s’offrirait pour remplir l’office le plus rebutant, le ministère le plus douloureux. Ainsi, le droit de détacher le supplicié du gibet, de l’ensevelir dans le suaire, était mis à l’encan et adjugé au plus haut enchérisseur. » Il est notable, en suivant ces deux récits, que les activités religieuses des pénitents conservent bien, en toutes circonstances et tous lieux, le caractère mortuaire qui les rend si pittoresques. Ajoutons de même que la notion « d’argent », de « monnayage du salut » revient systématiquement, associée aux fins dernières. Ce point précis, avec d’autres, devra attirer notre attention, car il s’agit là justement de quelques éléments que nous allons retrouver dans la Bible, interdits, car constituant les clefs du rituel Chaldéen des morts.


viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2706&start=0


google translate:

The cloister of the hanged.

Once the sentence of death passed against the convicted, the penitents gathered around his body, and they caught him for the cover with a shroud of their making. They also applied some ointment to him sacred, then took him in the cloister of "hanging" so that the body is the subject of the ritual of death / reincarnation, "adaptation of" Chaldean Mysteries, "which the brothers do not celebrate that in great secrecy. One by one, the penitents laid the hands on the corpse, then uttered a prayer for the dead. Then they threw the deceased in the tomb of the monastery for this purpose, which stretched from the outskirts of the central staircase to the well. The close proximity to them with drinking water was afraid of making it unfit for consumption, and thus the risk of epidemics. But the pile of bones near a groundwater source was not without reasons and was of particular religious character, the well has the property to symbolize the notion of "baptism corpse, well known Chaldean rite. So we did not care too much risk and we were content to spread a few shovels of lime on the bodies, in order to burn the rot. We agree, and these rituals are magical figure of curiosity, and it would be risky at first glance, to make a generalization common to all penitents. Yet we read in "French Catholic Almanac for the year 1921" as a widespread manner, like the red penitents of Limoges, the brothers were allowed to enter "two to two [...] in place would be sentenced to death for the console [...] to drive and accompany them to the place destined to the scaffold, where, after having seen them expire in torments, take their bodies, if not otherwise Ordered, for burial [...] The body, detached from the gallows or the wheel was put in beer by colleagues who had acquired at auction the right to fill this office. The same practice is described in the journal in 1876 entitled "The Scenic Store, where penitents are still clad in the" special mission to assist those sentenced to death. A new sentence of capital punishment, the brotherhood called twelve visitors. They covered the bag of penitence, and through the city begging for alms [...] It was in this fraternity, we are assured, that offered to fill the office for the most repulsive, the Department the most painful. Thus, the right to remove from the victims of the gallows, to bury it in the shroud, was auctioned and awarded to the highest bidder. It is notable, using these two narratives, that the religious activities of penitents keep well at all times and all places, the mortuary character that makes them so picturesque. Let's add that even the notion of "money" and "counterfeiting of salvation is systematically associated with the last things. This point, along with others, should attract our attention, because this is just a few elements that we find in the Bible, banned as constituting the keys of the Chaldean rite of the dead.

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 Post subject: Re: LA SANG
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2010 8:25 pm 
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:D I think in the above you need to read beer as bier as in "La mise en bière est l'opération qui consiste à placer un cadavre dans un cercueil". ....which doesn't (unfortunately) refer to the body being preserved in beer!


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 Post subject: Re: LA SANG
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2010 8:54 pm 
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Spoil sport Sheila!

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 Post subject: Re: LA SANG
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2010 11:59 pm 
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Hi all , here is the french version translation to the above post concerning LA Sang real.

Kehveeneh

The cloister of the hung.

Once the sentence of dead reach against the condemned, the penitents assembled themselves around his body, and took possession of it to cover it with a linceul of their making. They applied him equally some sacred anointments, then took it in the cloister "of the hung" so that the corpse be the object of the ritual of "dead / reincarnation", adaptation of the "Chaldean mysteries", that the colleagues celebrate only in big secret. One to one, the penitents put the hands on the corpse, then pronounced a prayer to the intention of the death. Next, one threw the defunct one in the grave of the foreseen cloister to this effect, that spread itself approaches of the central stairway to the well. The proximity of the corpses with drinkable water did to be afraid of to render unsuitable it to the consumption, and thus risks of epidemics. But the amassing of the remains not far from a source of underground water was not without reasons and clothed a special religious character, the well having for property to symbolize the notion same of "funeral baptism", Chaldean ritual well known. Also was concerned one not too much the risks and was satisfied one to shed some peel lively lime on the remains, in order some to burn rottenness. One will suit some, these ritual and magic practices look like a curiosities, and it would be hazardous, at first sight, of some to do a common generality to all the penitents. Nevertheless, we read in "the French Catholic Almanac of the year 1921" that of a strong shed manner, to the example of the red penitents of Dismiss, the colleagues had the permission to enter "two to two […] in the place where would be the condemned to death to console them […] to drive them and to accompany them to the place intend for the torture, and there, after see them expired in the agonys, take their Body, so otherwise not some is ordered, to bury them […] The body, detached gibet or wheel, was put in the beer by colleagues that had obtained to the bids the right to fill this office." The same practice is described in the magazine of 1876 title "The Picturesque Store", where the penitents again are dressed of the "special mission to attend the condemned to death. To the new one of a condemnation to the penalty capital, the brotherhood named twelve visitors. These, covered with the bag of the penitence, traversed the city and sought charities […] IT WAS in this brotherhood, one assures, to that would offer itself to fill the office the more disgusting, the ministry more painful. Thus, the right to detach the torture victim of the gibet, to bury it in the suaire, was put to the encan and auctioned to the highest enchérisseur." It is notable, while following these two narratives, that the religious activities of the penitents preserve well, in all circumstances and all places, the funeral character that the so picturesque return. Let's add just like the notion "of money", of "monnayage of the good day" returns systematically, associated with the last ends. This precise point, with of others, will have to attract our attention, for it is a matter there exactly of some elements that we will rediscover in the Bible, forbidden, for constituent the keys of the Chaldean ritual of the deaths.


This is a very deep and mysterious writing.

kehveeneh


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 Post subject: Re: LA SANG
PostPosted: 26 Jul 2010 2:23 am 
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I would like to know more about la sanch. Very very interesting.


Kevin


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 Post subject: Re: LA SANG
PostPosted: 26 Jul 2010 2:32 am 
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Quote:
I would like to know more about la sanch. Very very interesting.

Just a thought Kevin, maybe if you stopped repeating other peoples posts and adding the word "interesting" to everything, and concentrated your time in reading books, you may learn something new. Do search the forum as well for info on la sanch, or look into Girona and its history.
Regards
Nic


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 Post subject: Re: LA SANG
PostPosted: 26 Jul 2010 11:46 am 
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Sheila wrote:
:D I think in the above you need to read beer as bier as in "La mise en bière est l'opération qui consiste à placer un cadavre dans un cercueil". ....which doesn't (unfortunately) refer to the body being preserved in beer!


:lol:
this is the problem with translations ;-)

thank goodness i am able to read the french :-)

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 Post subject: Re: LA SANG
PostPosted: 26 Jul 2010 3:06 pm 
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Roger wrote:
TCP wrote:
Sheila wrote:
La Sanch haven't got the Crista.


The more unfounded details concerning "La Sanch" I read about here on this forum, the more I believe there must be a parallel universe.

TCP


Tim, I'm a bit surprised that, with all your connections to a very wide variety of Iberian miscreants, you're not better informed on the Sanch and the Sang. Surely, you must know some of their more unsavoury patrons who are members of some of the same Orders?


Perhaps I'm better informed than you give me credit for, Roger! :wink:

TCP


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 Post subject: Re: LA SANG
PostPosted: 26 Jul 2010 3:07 pm 
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Sheila wrote:
:D I think in the above you need to read beer as bier as in "La mise en bière est l'opération qui consiste à placer un cadavre dans un cercueil". ....which doesn't (unfortunately) refer to the body being preserved in beer!


Oh, but Sheila, that would have made the tale just that much more interesting! Maybe you should have left that one alone! :lol:

TRCP


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 Post subject: Re: LA SANG
PostPosted: 26 Jul 2010 6:03 pm 
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Roger wrote:
TCP wrote:
Perhaps I'm better informed than you give me credit for, Roger! :wink:

TCP


Oh... Then you were being facetious, when scoffing at the preciously preserved skins?


Nope, not facetious - more like skeptical.

TCP


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 Post subject: Re: LA SANG
PostPosted: 26 Jul 2010 6:33 pm 
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Roger wrote:
If you're at all interested in the more repulsive aspects of those confraternities, that is.

How ugly does it get? :?


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 Post subject: Re: LA SANG
PostPosted: 26 Jul 2010 6:37 pm 
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the skins...
skins...preserved on the shrouds used to wrap them...
:!: :?:

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 Post subject: Re: LA SANG
PostPosted: 26 Jul 2010 7:45 pm 
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Roger wrote:
In that case, you need to inform yourself a bit more.
If you're at all interested in the more repulsive aspects of those confraternities, that is.


Oh, trust me, this new twist on old confraternities is quite educational! :lol:

TCP


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 Post subject: Re: LA SANG
PostPosted: 26 Jul 2010 7:50 pm 
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Just a thought Kevin, maybe if you stopped repeating other peoples posts and adding the word "interesting" to everything, and concentrated your time in reading books, you may learn something new.

I think this is the angriest i have ever seen Nic :mrgreen:

Bless him ...


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 Post subject: Re: LA SANG
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2010 1:11 am 
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Sorry about the post, my medicine clouds my typing. Ill try to quit saying the words interesting and
get to the point. I just finished it so I'm sure ill correct my grammer.....

Hey Nic sorry I got you upset :mrgreen:

Kevin


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 Post subject: Re: LA SANG
PostPosted: 02 Sep 2010 4:24 am 
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"Beaucoup de communistes et d'athées font la Sanch, il ne faut pas croire!"

Just read an (old) interview with a La Sanch member named Denis Ferrer. Another Q+A i found interesting was:

"Pourquoi cette fascination pour la procession de Perpignan?
Je pense que plus on avance, moins on sait où on va, plus on veut savoir d’où l’on vient."

Full interview here.


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