Knights Templar early years ..

TCP · **Posted:** 06 Jul 2010 9:07 pm

jim wrote:

Roger wrote:

[
but I do know MANY of the facts.... :lol:

We're all glad you know many facts Roger, and that you've certified that the things you know are indeed facts and not just your opinion or the opinion of somebody else whom you happen to agree with.

Well, that's very gentlemanly and sporting of you, Jim.

As you may recall, when I first joined this forum, Roger couldn't stand me at all, and put me through the same wringer that Mr. Butz is employing now. And I can assure you it wasn't my say-so or mastery of the subtle art of persuasion that cooled his jets - he held out for the documentation, which is posted here for anyone to examine.

TCP

revjeff · **Posted:** 06 Jul 2010 9:51 pm

TCP wrote:

So now that you've crossed the line from dismissive comments to libelous accusations (i.e. "false-pretenses", "lying") kindly furnish us with evidence you've collected detailing my perfidy. :twisted:

TCP

"thus there was no possibility for me to claim it by inheritance 97 years after the fact"

Don Íñigo de Arróspide y Valera claimed the VACANT Title in 1999.

revjeff · **Posted:** 06 Jul 2010 9:56 pm

TCP wrote:

As you may recall, when I first joined this forum, Roger couldn't stand me at all, and put me through the same wringer that Mr. Butz is employing now. And I can assure you it wasn't my say-so or mastery of the subtle art of persuasion that cooled his jets - he held out for the documentation, which is posted here for anyone to examine.
TCP

Documentation relevant only to the fact that you have a one-off Honorific Mickey Mouse title.
Nothing else.

TCP · **Posted:** 06 Jul 2010 10:36 pm

revjeff wrote:

TCP wrote:

So now that you've crossed the line from dismissive comments to libelous accusations (i.e. "false-pretenses", "lying") kindly furnish us with evidence you've collected detailing my perfidy. :twisted:

TCP

"thus there was no possibility for me to claim it by inheritance 97 years after the fact"

Don Íñigo de Arróspide y Valera claimed the VACANT Title in 1999.

Vacant only since 9 October 1998 because the previous holder since 9 February 1985, his cousin Don José Luis Patiño y Cobian, failed to satisfy payment of the inheritance taxes and had his carta de sucesión revoked. It's all outlined in detail here, I hope your Spanish is up to speed:

Vizconde de Perellós

I do have to correct myself on one point, however - the grandfather of Don Íñigo (and great-grandfather of Don José Luis), Don José María Arróspide y Álvarez, bought the title out of abeyance from the Spanish government in 1917, not 1907. My bad.

Anything else you want to throw at me?

This is really a fascinating exercise, Mr. Butz, as your "pattern" reveals who exactly is coaching you. I wouldn't want my IP address winding up on that man's tracking log, or vice-versa. :lol:

TCP

TCP · **Posted:** 06 Jul 2010 10:43 pm

revjeff wrote:

TCP wrote:

As you may recall, when I first joined this forum, Roger couldn't stand me at all, and put me through the same wringer that Mr. Butz is employing now. And I can assure you it wasn't my say-so or mastery of the subtle art of persuasion that cooled his jets - he held out for the documentation, which is posted here for anyone to examine.
TCP

Documentation relevant only to the fact that you have a one-off Honorific Mickey Mouse title.
Nothing else.

That's your value judgment, Mr. Butz. The Instituto da Nobreza Portuguesa, which regulates the use of titles of nobility in Portugal, accords the Duke of Bragança the right to make such concessions to Portuguese nationals (within the framework of laws of the Portuguese Republic) and foreigners via the statutues of those dynastic orders (Vila Viçosa, São Miguel da Ala, and Santa Isabel)which the Republic concedes to him as his birthright. And that's good enough for the Cronista de Armas of Spain and the Spanish Ministry of Justice. "Mickey Mouse" is in the eye of the beholder, but for you to state that any illegalities come into play are grounds for libel. Your "coach" knows a little about how litigious I can get when provoked... :twisted:

TCP

TCP · **Posted:** 06 Jul 2010 10:49 pm

Roger wrote:

No, he didn't ''claim'' it, Butthead. You're obviously quite out of your depth... It' actually becoming painful to watch..

Given the "nuggets" he's coming up with, I think you'll find my prediction yesterday regarding who his source is to be right on the money.

TCP

TCP · **Posted:** 06 Jul 2010 10:53 pm

Roger wrote:

No, he didn't ''claim'' it, Butthead. You're obviously quite out of your depth... It' actually becoming painful to watch..

Let him be, Roger - this is just getting interesting. :twisted:

TCP

revjeff · **Posted:** 07 Jul 2010 2:19 am

TCP wrote:

Let him be, Roger - this is just getting interesting. :twisted:

TCP

Interesting? More like hilarious. Now you're getting absolutely paranoid! First I was getting my info from Coppens and & McGowan, and now none other than Paul Smith is coaching me! (I assume that's who you're referring to, maybe I'm wrong.)

Calm down boys. It's nothing so cloak and dagger. I just happen to teach at a large university where there are experts on European history and heraldry and genealogy.

Yes, I admit I am getting help. And boy, are you two giving my colleagues a lot of chuckles!

TCP · **Posted:** 07 Jul 2010 6:03 am

revjeff wrote:

TCP wrote:

Let him be, Roger - this is just getting interesting. :twisted:

TCP

Interesting? More like hilarious. Now you're getting absolutely paranoid! First I was getting my info from Coppens and & McGowan, and now none other than Paul Smith is coaching me! (I assume that's who you're referring to, maybe I'm wrong.)

Calm down boys. It's nothing so cloak and dagger. I just happen to teach at a large university where there are experts on European history and heraldry and genealogy.

Yes, I admit I am getting help. And boy, are you two giving my colleagues a lot of chuckles!

Bull. Every little stinkbomb is right out of the you-know-who's playbook, including the mistakes. You don't even have the basic comprehension necessary to formulate your questions, which thus far have been practically word-for-word rehashes of past performances by "he whose name shall not be mentioned." Yesterday you told Roger you "knew people who knew" me; today it's "university colleagues who are experts" on blah blah blah. Although your story keeps changing from day-to-day, at least you admit the obvious - that you're being coached. How interesting to learn that history faculty at Penn State are so well-versed in me, right down to personal details! So, after I make a few inquiries with the Penn State IT Dept. tomorrow to assess the university's policy on misuse of campus resources, I guess a note addressed to the deans of the Theology and History departments (with screen shots so you can't delete your libelous comments) would be in order. I hope you're not up for tenure review anytime soon.

TCP

TCP · **Posted:** 07 Jul 2010 6:09 am

revjeff wrote:

TCP wrote:

So now that you've crossed the line from dismissive comments to libelous accusations (i.e. "false-pretenses", "lying") kindly furnish us with evidence you've collected detailing my perfidy. :twisted:

TCP

"thus there was no possibility for me to claim it by inheritance 97 years after the fact"

Don Íñigo de Arróspide y Valera claimed the VACANT Title in 1999.

By the way, Mr. Butz, this is the one that clinched it. You-know-who fell into the same pothole a couple of years back. I see he's not above setting up a shill to take the same fall.

TCP

revjeff · **Posted:** 07 Jul 2010 7:07 am

TCP wrote:

Bull. Every little stinkbomb is right out of the you-know-who's playbook, including the mistakes. You don't even have the basic comprehension necessary to formulate your questions, which thus far have been practically word-for-word rehashes of past performances by "he whose name shall not be mentioned." Yesterday you told Roger you "knew people who knew" me; today it's "university colleagues who are experts" on blah blah blah. Although your story keeps changing from day-to-day, at least you admit the obvious - that you're being coached. How interesting to learn that history faculty at Penn State are so well-versed in me, right down to personal details! So, after I make a few inquiries with the Penn State IT Dept. tomorrow to assess the university's policy on misuse of campus resources, I guess a note addressed to the deans of the Theology and History departments (with screen shots so you can't delete your libelous comments) would be in order. I hope you're not up for tenure review anytime soon.
TCP

Oh, please, bring it on! But I'll be a pal and save you the trouble: I am teaching no summer courses and have not been in my Penn State office for a month. You must be really getting desperate to stop my personal research into your shenanigans now!

And, indeed, I have recently been contacted by someone who knows you very well. And I assure you it is not Paul Smith! :roll:

This person knows you personally (not just through forums or e-mails). Maybe that will give you a clue.

revjeff · **Posted:** 07 Jul 2010 7:13 am

TCP wrote:

revjeff wrote:

TCP wrote:

So now that you've crossed the line from dismissive comments to libelous accusations (i.e. "false-pretenses", "lying") kindly furnish us with evidence you've collected detailing my perfidy. :twisted:

TCP

"thus there was no possibility for me to claim it by inheritance 97 years after the fact"

Don Íñigo de Arróspide y Valera claimed the VACANT Title in 1999.

By the way, Mr. Butz, this is the one that clinched it. You-know-who fell into the same pothole a couple of years back. I see he's not above setting up a shill to take the same fall.
TCP

Come on, Tim. You yourself noted how easy it is to dig all this stuff up:
http://www.andrewgough.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9926&highlight=#9926

"Paranoia will destroy ya" - Ray Davies

jim · **Posted:** 07 Jul 2010 12:43 pm

From a guy who self professes he goes undercover to infiltrate various groups just for his and his buddies "secret pleasures". Exactly the same thing he is caught red handed doing here on this forum.

And who really cares about the con-mans meaningless titles, they are just tools he uses in this game of infiltration and deceit. Whether it's all for some kind of sick personal pleasure or some other type of gains I am not all that sure.

TCP · **Posted:** 07 Jul 2010 3:16 pm

jim wrote:

From a guy who self professes he goes undercover to infiltrate various groups just for his and his buddies "secret pleasures". Exactly the same thing he is caught red handed doing here on this forum.

"Secret pleasures" - that sounds so prurient! You're really good at creating salacious gay imagery, you must practice a lot... :wink:

Well, actually Jeff, "infiltration of various groups" is Roger's assessment; I've just let it ride. There are people here that think I work for the Order of Malta - I let 'em think it. You've said recently that you're convinced I'm a devout Catholic using "pagan" as a cover - good. If my "other" life is all a smokescreen, then there's really no need for me to "infiltrate" Catholic groups. Maybe the RCC sent me to "spy" on Arcadia! :lol:

jim wrote:

And who really cares about the con-mans meaningless titles, they are just tools he uses in this game of infiltration and deceit. Whether it's all for some kind of sick personal pleasure or some other type of gains I am not all that sure.

Just as well, because you never will be sure. But it obviously bothers you, otherwise you wouldn't expend the time and brain cells posting your little letter-bombs. If you were as disinterested as you claim to be, you wouldn't bother.

TCP

TCP · **Posted:** 07 Jul 2010 3:21 pm

revjeff wrote:

TCP wrote:

revjeff wrote:

"thus there was no possibility for me to claim it by inheritance 97 years after the fact"

Don Íñigo de Arróspide y Valera claimed the VACANT Title in 1999.

By the way, Mr. Butz, this is the one that clinched it. You-know-who fell into the same pothole a couple of years back. I see he's not above setting up a shill to take the same fall.
TCP

Come on, Tim. You yourself noted how easy it is to dig all this stuff up:
http://www.andrewgough.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9926&highlight=#9926

"Paranoia will destroy ya" - Ray Davies

What a coincidence that you would go right to an old post by "M. Norton" - as if you were completely unaware of who the man behind the pseudo is. :lol:

Thanks for underscoring my point so perfectly.

TCP

TCP · **Posted:** 07 Jul 2010 3:32 pm

revjeff wrote:

:lol: Oh, please, bring it on! But I'll be a pal and save you the trouble: I am teaching no summer courses and have not been in my Penn State office for a month. You must be really getting desperate to stop my personal research into your shenanigans now!

If you call regurgitating old posts from a banned felon "research" - the funny thing is that you simply post what he tells you to, without reading down the old thread to see how it backfired on him. Hence you leave yourself open for the same result.

revjeff wrote:

And, indeed, I have recently been contacted by someone who knows you very well. And I assure you it is not Paul Smith! :roll:

Oh no, he just feeds you "M. Norton's" old posts, but he's not "you-know-who"... :roll:

revjeff wrote:

This person knows you personally (not just through forums or e-mails). Maybe that will give you a clue.

No clues needed, this proves to me you're lying through your teeth.

TCP

TCP · **Posted:** 07 Jul 2010 3:40 pm

revjeff wrote:

:lol: Oh, please, bring it on! But I'll be a pal and save you the trouble: I am teaching no summer courses and have not been in my Penn State office for a month.

Thanks, pal! But I'll go to the trouble anyway. Whether you are or you aren't misusing campus resources, you aren't doing your department any favors in the professionalism arena, and your dean may take a dim view of his faculty putting their credentials and the school's reputation to poor use.

TCP

jim · **Posted:** 07 Jul 2010 3:42 pm

TCP wrote:

jim wrote:

From a guy who self professes he goes undercover to infiltrate various groups just for his and his buddies "secret pleasures". Exactly the same thing he is caught red handed doing here on this forum.

"Secret pleasures" - that sounds so prurient! You're really good at creating salacious gay imagery, you must practice a lot... :wink:

Well, actually Jeff, "infiltration of various groups" is Roger's assessment; I've just let it ride. There are people here that think I work for the Order of Malta - I let 'em think it. You've said recently that you're convinced I'm a devout Catholic using "pagan" as a cover - good. If my "other" life is all a smokescreen, then there's really no need for me to "infiltrate" Catholic groups. Maybe the RCC sent me to "spy" on Arcadia! :lol:

jim wrote:

And who really cares about the con-mans meaningless titles, they are just tools he uses in this game of infiltration and deceit. Whether it's all for some kind of sick personal pleasure or some other type of gains I am not all that sure.

Just as well, because you never will be sure. But it obviously bothers you, otherwise you wouldn't expend the time and brain cells posting your little letter-bombs. If you were as disinterested as you claim to be, you wouldn't bother.

TCP

"Secret pleasures" - that sounds so prurient! you'll have to ask Roger about that, I was just quoting him.

jim · **Posted:** 07 Jul 2010 3:55 pm

TCP wrote:

Well, actually Jeff, "infiltration of various groups" is Roger's assessment; I've just let it ride. There are people here that think I work for the Order of Malta - I let 'em think it. You've said recently that you're convinced I'm a devout Catholic using "pagan" as a cover - good. If my "other" life is all a smokescreen, then there's really no need for me to "infiltrate" Catholic groups. Maybe the RCC sent me to "spy" on Arcadia! :lol:

TCP

"Do you have any idea how many members in good standing of those organizations would be denied the sacraments for life if they ever spilled their guts in the confessional?

It ain't all that difficult to "infiltrate", and a good number of them are RLC/POS "enthusiasts" (mostly cheering for the other side, I might add).

TCP"

Sounds more like taking pride in your ability to disguise and infiltrate. Who knows what your game is here.

jim · **Posted:** 07 Jul 2010 4:12 pm

Roger wrote:

Quote:

expend the time and brain cells

Time... yes, but I see little evidence of the other.

Enough to spot a phony or two.

jim · **Posted:** 07 Jul 2010 4:18 pm

Roger wrote:

Enough to spot a phony or two.

I'll wager you couldn't "spot" your own behind with both hands, if the lights are turned off

another of your so called "secret pleasures" I presume.

jim · **Posted:** 07 Jul 2010 4:58 pm

Roger wrote:

jim wrote:

Roger wrote:

Enough to spot a phony or two.

I'll wager you couldn't "spot" your own behind with both hands, if the lights are turned off

another of your so called "secret pleasures" I presume.

Ah... yet another "gay" reference? I'll have you know that, despite my defense of Tim (not that he needs it at all) this doesn't make me homosexual. I am irretrievably, abysmally and unrepetently heterosexual, with all the grief and aggravation that comes with it.

Nice going with the innuendoes, though... it establishes your level rather nicely. :wink:

Don't tell me your only "secret pleasures" are watching Tim going under cover to wreak havoc on unsuspecting Catholic pseudo-orders and POS forums.

revjeff · **Posted:** 07 Jul 2010 5:33 pm

TCP wrote:

Whether you are or you aren't misusing campus resources, you aren't doing your department any favors in the professionalism arena, and your dean may take a dim view of his faculty putting their credentials and the school's reputation to poor use.
TCP

How so, since I never quoted my colleagues and never used the school's name in any argument?

Tim, since you are now in near-histrionics accusing me of libel, show me just one example. You will note that all I have ever done is quote your own words, and occasionally comment on your words and give my opinion as to your credibility. I have been very careful about this. :wink:

In fact, if you review the last few pages, you will see your "buddy" Roger has come closest to actual libel.

With friends like that, who needs enemies?

jim · **Posted:** 07 Jul 2010 6:02 pm

Roger "I'll be glad to elucidate, for the comprehension-impaired...

I meant that it provides me with some pleasure to see Tim, with his background an open book and quite apparently in conflict with the "pious" pretenses of those "orders", putting the lie to the facades displayed by the other members, who are not quite as forthcoming about their own "contradictions"...

If you don't get it, I can go hunt for some crayons and a large piece of construction paper... think it might help?"

Yes, please do. Draw me a picture of Tim in a cape saving the world from the "pious" pretenses of those "orders". He really is the "Caped Crusader", and you his "Boy Wonder".

VeryAngryMother · **Posted:** 07 Jul 2010 6:16 pm

Bloody Nora! give it a rest you lot. :roll:

VAM

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