Arcadia Discussion Zone

very "mature" Roger. btw you don't have to respond---Bill

Now I really don't want to put up a new theory ... but: As the city was gated, how was that at the river? Were guards watching on both sides? Is anything known about that situation? Just a thought.

Egi, in case you havn't already found it, a map of the area around "Temple of Villeneuve" can be found at http://www.templiers.org/paris.php The order moved into this headquarters in the late 12th century.---Bill

TCP believe me I'm glad you try to keep me grounded
I just give people credit for exploring this mystery and lets face it
Its fun

TCP your a LA kinda guy

I think your underestimating the ingenuity of the Templars


Bill knows horses and knows how to travel in rough conditions

Roger


Well talk about Fiction ....how do you know that the Captain of the Watch wasn't with a wench or playing cards with all the sentries that night
They could have been drunk or hey they could have been sympathizers

talk about Fiction ...it sounds like you knew the sentries on the wall that night ...
Its Dark ...who knows your not an eye witness
there might have been a fog or mist making visualization down to zero

Thanks for the words, Lov.---Bill

Thanks for the link. But still ... anybody (with little baggage) could have escaped through a flat boat at night even as the kingh's men were watching the all the roads. Was there a river guard? And some knight templars could have jumped into that boat anywhere outside of Paris, they just needed an hour to reach the river Seine. And then there were 9 hours night ... to travel on the river. In the morning they could have been at the atlantic coast and from there go to Scotland or Portugal.

Perhaps they sprouted wings and flew! Or the Mother Ship descended silently on the Lendit plain and whisked them away to Sirius!

The "eyewitness narrative" speaks only of the carts and horsemen taking to the roads. Let's stick to the parameters of the story, shall we?

TCP

OMG, this is turning into a screenplay...

TCP

You read my mind... except I didn't picture the Marmont, more like a random Starbucks somewhere east of the 101.

TCP

Well, this thread should actually be closed or it's going to turn into moon-dragon-pixies' adventure stories or something like that. I apologize for getting visions of boats on the Seine in the still of the night.

No templar fleet at La Rochelle. End of a story. Curtain.
Let's go somewhere else. Where to? Well, Hiseman's Colloseum are in town tomorrow and Chris Farlowe is one of the few singers who has not lost his voice over the decades of singing and shouting - as have Cocker, Stewart, Chapman, Burdon, et. al. And Clem Clempson ist still playing a mean guitar like he did 40 years ago.

[quote="Eginolf"
No templar fleet at La Rochelle.



Sorry to hear that Egi, I guess that means that if you and Roger and Tim say it, it must be true (no templar fleet at La Rochelle). I don't know if Andy will close this thread on your say so or not, but I would hope not as I disagree with you. I believe their was a Templar fleet at La Rochelle after the end of May in 1307.---Bill

Yes, you BELIEVE. But you should SEE the historical evidence: this guy Jean de Chalons did not even mention La Rochelle when he spoke about these notorious 18 ships. Also this guy was not a nice guy and actually a liar. And YOU rely on this?

Of course Andy will not close this thread and also I don't mind. I merely expressed my thoughts.

Yeah, I see its still here, and I certainly do not want to get one of these things going with you also, but there is much more then "Chalons" testimony. There is a statement by another source that tells of "de Molay" sailing to "La Rochelle" for a meeting with Clement in early 1307 with ten galleys. If at the time there were 8 other vessels already in La Rochelle (either galleys or shallops), that would make 18. Of course remember I am not stuck on 18, that number was only mentioned by "Chalons". At the time one vessel could have carried out the work that I discribed, and we certainly know there was at least one "galley" in La Rochelle, I just happen to believe there were more. Also remember, none were captured. As for Templars escaping from Paris, I do not see that as much of a problem. Templar headquarters was seperate from the walls around Paris, and at least several blocks north. The idea of these vessels going to Scotland and then Nova Scotia is not as far fetched as some believe.---Bill

I didn't know that one needed to sail to get from Paris to Avignon, did you Roger?

I believe the source for this tale is the irrepressible Niven Sinclair, forever tracking those eighteen Templar galleys so that "Prince" Henry could sail them to Nova Scotia nine decades later.

TCP

Bill

Oh Bill didn't you hear the news "de Molay" was a bad guy ... a heretic ...(sarcasm) he is the one whose testimony you can't trust ..ya he is the guy who was tortured and burned

bad witness bad testimony Liar and so is De Chalons guy bad witness Liar

see the same pattern bad guy, bad testimony ....when in doubt character assassination

thing is De Molay did make a few statements that were dead right

No this looks like a bunch of lawyers discrediting testimony of a witness that is crucial information
Now the lawyers are threw Case Close ...close this thread


I don't think so

Always an "if"...



Who said nothing of La Rochelle, but you don't seem to let that curb your imagination.



Of course it isn't far-fetched. There's just no evidence to show that it actually happened. Just a lot of "ifs"...

TCP

Oh, so now de Molay himself is the source! Funny how the parameters keep moving for the sake of convenience.

And now Jean de Chalons, who gave his "eighteen ships" testimony against his Templar brethren in an act of betrayal, is the "good guy"...

Lov, you and Bill should team up and write a book together. You're clearly on the same wavelength.

TCP

for Tim and Roger:

Could either of you recommend a trustworthy and accurate book on the Templars history for myself and anyone else interested.

Lets see, I'm trying to think how this works. I name my source, you find it on Wikipedia and you then attempt to discredit it. Thats the way I have seen it work with everbody you have argued with, so I think I will keep it to myself for a little longer. The source tells me 10 Templar vessels sailed through Gibralter in early 1307, so I'm sure you can find it if you are so inclined.---Bill

Malcolm Barber's The New Knighthood : A History of the Order of the Temple and The Trial of the Templars; Barbara Frale's The Templars: The Secret History Revealed; Michael Haag's The Templars: The History and the Myth: From Solomon's Temple to the Freemasons gives a pretty even-handed summation of the myths; Karen Ralls' Knights Templar Encyclopedia and The Templars and the Grail: Knights of the Quest also offer good contrasts between fact and fiction; Sean Martin's The Knights Templar: The History and Myths of the Legendary Military Order; and of course any of Helen Nicholson's books - The Knights Templar, A Brief History of the Knights Templar, Knight Templar 1120-1312, The Debate on the Trial of the Templars (1307-1314).

TCP

Yes I know how Wiipedia works and that is why I seldom use it.

You are almost always offensive to me Roger. btw, I don't know exactly how this happened so I am not pretending it is serious history. I only know that somehow "Nova Scotia" became involved and that you do not know everything that the Templars did.

Also, the source I am talking about is not "David Hatcher Childress", and while on this subject, I do not think anybody knows exactly what happened.---Bill

Thank ya Tim,appreciate it.

Hmmm. That same "notorious 'alternative reality' and revisionist fantasizer from the good old American tradition of PT Barnum" also happens to be the American publisher of a book called The Rise. Go figure.

It seems that the Knights Templar were very able to secret items and persons out of a fort under guard, this in answer to the "headquarters at Paris was being watched", so they could not have escaped by themselves or with any treasure

from "The History of the Knights Templar" by Addison

pg.190 "The Temple at Acre was a place of great strength, and surrounded by walls and towers of immense extent."

pg.191 "In the night Ganudini, with a chosen band of his companions, collected together the treasure of the order and the ornaments of the church, and sallying out of a secret postern of the Temple which communicated with the harbour, they got on board a small vessel and escaped in safety to the island of Cyprus." ---Bill

Yes I can, evidently you didn't get my point. If I thought somebody else had brought the Graal to Nova Scotia, I would leave the Templars alone. The only problem is they are the most likely candidates. hmmm, "Not-so-Rev-Jeff and Way-off-ward", how long did you spend coming up with these? ---Bill