Arcadia Discussion Zone

I don't feel threatend Tim. That is what I was trying to tell you, nor do I feel like a victim, but I do not like being laughed at either.---Bill

You have no control over other people's reactions, Bill. You play your hand and deal with the results. If you don't like the responses you're getting, then rethink your approach. It's really that simple.

TCP

The problem here is that in doing historical research -- and especially regarding the events being discussed here that happened seven hundred years ago -- there are exceedingly few facts, only interpretations of meager recorded data.

Don’t get discouraged Bill, Roger has strong opinions but no proof whatsoever. He likes to portray himself as an expert, but has consistently been recalcitrant to provide evidence of his expertise. Until he does, I give little more weight to his OPINIONS than to those of, say, for example . . . Jake!

Roger and Tim's opinions reflect the conservative position on these matters, but I learned long ago it is new interpretations that swim against the tide of accepted “facts” that usually lead to new truths (see: Galileo, Darwin, Wegener).
I have learned much from Roger and Tim's learned debate, and am learning much from this current debate. I greatly admire Roger and Tim's knowledge of these matters, but their great knowledge doesn't mean they are always correct in their conclusions.

I sincerely hope this current debate can keep going without descending into name-calling and resultant hurt feelings, which sadly happens a lot on this forum. This is the most interesting thread I have seen here in a while.

Jeff
http://www.thebrotherofjesus.com

They carried the Holy Graal - and you sincerely BELIEVE that? WHY would they hide it and not put in on display?


p.s.
thanks TCP for typing off the quotes from Helen Nicholson’s book. Very helpful. As is also Roger's source on the interview of Guillaume de Lege.

It had been put on display, in Charing Cross, Nova Scotia. In Joan Hopes secret city there was a memorial to a beloved queen. This display lasted quite a few years, at least until the city was destroyed.---Bill

Well, "mountains" may be stretching it, but I agree there is indeed a lot of DATA. There are mountains of INTERPRETATIONS of the data, but exceedingly few certain conclusions or facts. This is simply the nature of pre-modern historical research.

Tim, are you telling me that if a few people laugh at me, I must be wrong in my thinking? Let me explain my own rules of engagement for discussions on the internet (for myself). If you have ever traveled across the US using a CB radio you will notice many of the truckers making threats and poking fun at other drivers, not all of them mind you, but it seems like the ones that use the radio the most engage in this. Of course this is because of the anonymity they enjoy. In other words other then their handle nobody knows who they are. It is the same with some persons on these forums. My own rule is to assume I am in a bar drinking beer (or whatever you drink) with this person that I am arguing with. When I say I do not like being laughed at, that is the same thing I would tell you if you were sitting across from me in this bar. I don't expect everybody to act in this way, but it is the way I feel.---Bill

Thanks for your support "revjeff". I just checked out your website and see you are Luthern. I was raised in the Luthern Church myself. I would love to discuss some things with you, perhaps a little later this year---Bill

I don't know anything about ships of the time period or how many the Templars had or how sea worthy they were, but couldn't the Templars when given hints or some sort intelligence
months prior to their arrests, slowly started putting some of their money or other treasures
onto the various ships they own, and moved these items to safer places? If you had a ship leaving France for say Portugal or Spain,you could put the Holy Grail on it, sail off with your wine or what have you, and land at Lisbon or else where in Portugal or Spain. Take your goods off, including the Holy Grail, and who would know? No one would suspect a thing.

And why does everyone think only Columbus discovered America or whathave you? Was everyone so stupid back then they couldn't have sailed across the Atlantic Ocean and come to North America or places like Nova Scotia or Newfoundland? Of course they could have.

I just had a look at it. Oh me oh my - it is in LATIN!

No, Bill - because that would be putting the cart before the horse.



Your feelings are your own matter, no one else's. I'm sorry if you can't handle criticism, but again, that's your affair, not mine.

TCP

WHAT! I don't have any more time for this absurd argument, back to the original discussion.---Bill

Perfect illustration of the key point right here: start with a question, then endeavor to answer that question by examination of available data. Render a conclusion, and present it with backup. Keep an open mind to qualified criticism.

The pseudo-historian follows a different strategy: start with a question, then answer the question based on desired outcome. Examine available data and discount anything that argues against your conclusion. Present findings, and take umbrage at criticism.



Historians and archaeologists have determined that Europeans did explore the waters of the North American continent before Columbus. But they didn't arrive at that conclusion by asking "why not?" and then determining that there was no good reason to discount the possibility, ergo it "must" have happened.

TCP

Bad analogy, Jeff. Galileo, Darwin and Wegener could actually demonstrate their findings. Only two things can propel new interpretations against the tide of old facts: newer facts, and consumer gullibility.

I don't see too many new facts being proffered here, Jeff; then again, you had the same problem not long ago when you were preparing your book, as I recall.

TCP

Hey Bill
And Rev Jeff Hello

Yes there is a legend of the Red Beard living with the MicMaq's at Nova Scotia


Look at their flag
it is the red and white crusader cross
with the pentacle and crescent moon

"Míkmaq" means "the family":

Red Earth People

"Micmac Magic and Medicine"

megumoowesoo, the name of the Micmacs' legendary master magicians, from whom the earliest Micmac wizards are said to have received their power.

Now Bill yes maybe the Holy Grail or treasure was at Nova Scotia
but then maybe after the Great Expulsion
it was moved
to a safer location
let's face it
they didn't want the British to get it

but then there is Oak Island legends
the symbol of the Oak has meaning

It is interesting at how brutal the British were to the Acadians extremely so
the MicMaq and the French intermarried


According to the 2001 Canadian census[18] the largest ethnic group in Nova Scotia is Scottish (29.3%), followed by English (28.1%), Irish (19.9%), French (16.7%), German (10.0%), Dutch (3.9%), First Nations (3.2%), Welsh (1.4%), Italian (1.3%), and Acadian (1.2%). Peoples of European descent thus make up approximately 96.8% of the total population. Almost half of all respondents (47.4%) identified their ethnicity as "Canadian"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mi%27kmaq

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_Scotia

I get it.

At least I crossed the Atlantic Ocean on a 33-footer (without having autopilot or radio device) but my last latin lesson was way back in 1969 and my last french lesson was in 1972. I gotta wait for a Google Latin Translator.

No, Bill.
Please check this thread:
http://andrewgough.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3068&start=0

The scientific method begins with a question...and logic dictates that there has to be a desired outcome...evidence suggesting that the thought processes on this forum are working correctly.

And though, there are people here with extraordinary language skills, and people with big d....
databases (that don't impress me much)...what seems to sorely lacking is knowldege of 'management' skills.

Human Resource management KNOWS for a fact the benefits of brainstorming...how complex problems are often solved by people who are 'outside' the box. It's a forest-trees kinda thing. I would think any SERIOUS researcher would be looking for just such a scenerio.

I find it amazing that the people on this forum that have set themselves up as the 'experts' are the people who refuse to look at anyone else's information...only their stuff has any relevance, it's very closed minded...and yet...that is the very thing they accuse the rest of us of. You would think they would be smart enough to recognize their own flaws...especially after this length of time.

One would think that a FORUM is set up for conversation. And yet there are days where very little actual conversation takes place here.

That is all very interesting about the Mikmaq isn't it, Lov. If you get a chance and you havn't already, read "John Bear Macneils" book "Basket Stories", it is free and online. John discribes many ties between the Mikmaq and the Cathars, sadly he died a few years ago, but like "Joan Hope" he has friends carrying on his work. As I have said, I do believe the "Holy Graal" sat in a position of honor for many years at Charing Cross, and then when it became clear it was in danger again it was indeed moved to a safer location.---Bill

Tim, a question for you. You freely admit that Viking ships crossed the North Atlantic, but you deny the Templars, why is that? Do you believe they would have used more drinking water then anybody else? It would be obvious to me the Templars would have had better navigation skills. This is in reference to the castle remains at Charing Cross.---Bill

Wayward...

Can you send me the link to the basket stories (I'm lazy)...I had it saved to favorites but lost it when my computer crashed in Dec.

If you look at bow and arrow technology, it would seem it was developed in the Altai region...but then you have the long-bowmen from Canada. How did the technology cross the Atlantic ocean. Haplogroup X?

Eginolf, just to clear something up, by latter do you mean the "fighting back" or the "pseudo-historian-syndrome" could become pathological? The first part of your sentence says "business as usual", which could indicate latter to be either of the others.---Bill

I have to run right now, Dipity, but I send it as soon as I get back home. It is in my records, which are, hmmm.---Bill

Because there is evidence for the Viking excursions. I am open to the idea of Templar crossings but I'd like to see some credible evidence and that, to date, has been sorely lacking. These fantastic theories have nothing but hearsay to back them up. Why take these claims at face value? Why do you take them at face value?

TCP