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 Post subject: d'Hautpoul, De Ros, DeVeaux, Guerrard, Godin
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2010 5:09 pm 
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I need help.

I am investigating the above names. The problem is, most of the 'hits' that I get back are in a foreign language...mostly French...imagine that :lol:

All of the above families are related. Most can be found in Burke's Peerage. Descendants from all of the above families ended up in Charleston, SC...33 degree parallel?

And they all are referenced here:
http://www.regulargrandlodgevirginia.com/files/HISTORY_A_PR.pdf

I'm still reading the above document. (I am from Virginia, the shield includes the numbers 95 or 9th day 5th month...the beginning of the Festival of Lumeria. The 7 Stars could be an allusion to the 7 Society of the University of Virginia...Thomas Jefferson's school).

The d'Hautpoul's are related to the De Ros', and a De Ros' married a Maude/Matilda De Veaux. The Deveaux are from Normandy. They were related to William the Conq. and recieved lands in England for fighting with him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_de_Ros,_2nd_Baron_de_Ros
http://roseredcowgirl.tripod.com/daisemingerstree/id33.html
http://www.1066.co.nz/library/battle_abbey_roll1/subchap180.htm#_note-138

Desendents of the DeVeaux's, Godin's, Guerard's, LeSurrurier's, and deCoure's married into and were well known to the Mazycks's from St. Martin...and they were all Huguenots. The Mazycks's also moved to Charleston after the Revoking of the Edict of Nantes. The Mazyck's property was the home to the Charleston Liberty Tree (druids?) where the Son's of Liberty would meet. The roots of the tree were made into canes...one was given to Thomas Jefferson.

St. Martin and Isle de Re are known for...sauniere/salt...the huguenot symbol is called the languedoc.

Thomas Jefferson owned Natural Bridge....which borders ARCADIA, Virginia.

Are you positive that what we are looking for is NOT in the US?

What does this say?
http://www.octonovo.org/RlC/Fr/docu/Ritprimitif02.htm

Anyone know where I can find the Castle of Vaux?

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 Post subject: Re: d'Hautpoul, De Ros, DeVeaux, Guerrard, Godin
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2010 6:22 pm 
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Roger wrote:
Oh boy.....

I wouldn't know where to begin to disentangle this mess for you.

Definitely off the tracks.

The only connection to the New World, in all of this, is in the nature and identity of the religious organizations (outwardly Catholic, almost exclusively) that figured prominently in the colonization of Canada.


But...I just showed you several other connections.

I can connect the d'Hautpoul's to the French families that ended up in America...families that were French Royalty, masons, artists...connected to all of the events and places surrounding the Mystery of RLC...the place names originally used in america were even the same (many names have been changed since then).

The Cathars and followers of Waldo were not Catholic, by the way...

So how can you say what you said with such certainty?

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 Post subject: Re: d'Hautpoul, De Ros, DeVeaux, Guerrard, Godin
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2010 6:26 pm 
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Did you happen to catch the Bees on the coin from page 12 of the masonic link above?

The bees represent the Wisdom of Ormus.

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 Post subject: Re: d'Hautpoul, De Ros, DeVeaux, Guerrard, Godin
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2010 7:05 pm 
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Roger wrote:
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But...I just showed you several other connections.

I can connect the d'Hautpoul's to the French families that ended up in America...


Umm... no. Publish the genealogies, and you'll see where they err.

I've already posted portions of my family tree on this forum and got hammered for it. The lines are in Burkes Peerage, the Lyons Court, etc. etc which is the best references that I can come up with. I am a descendant of all of the families that I have previously mentioned, and I live in the US. As a matter of fact, anyone want to help me find a tombstone in St. Martin?

As to the "wisdom of Ormus"... I have to smile...

The Waldensians were most definitely NOT Cathars, although the amalgam has been made several times by hurried and dyspeptic clerics.

Other than this happens to be the place where you live, why do you want to find connections between this affair and the New World, particularly the Virginia area?


I believe it has something to do with the Auld Aliance between France and Scotland...because these families can also be found in Scotland and married into Scots families.

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 Post subject: Re: d'Hautpoul, De Ros, DeVeaux, Guerrard, Godin
PostPosted: 12 Jan 2010 1:43 am 
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Serendipity, a forum member wrote extensively of her family ties to Huguenots and other family ancestry that includes Matilda of Tuscany. It seems these Huguenots were a bit clannish, yes?, I wonder if they did what Royals do and marry 1st cousins of different branches of the family to keep it a tightly knit krew, which is obviously what happened in yer family history.

Most likely yer gonna find a cross-over ancestry to this huguenot lady once they hit Charleston and were confined to the 13 colonies 'til they finally expanded westward. Roger makes a case for the French migration to Canada, but, if ya recall Napoleon sent his agents to New Orleans to see what the Louisiana territory had to offer him. He sold it to Jefferson just to keep the UK from takin' it as a war trophy. Earlier on French Jesuits opened a settlement in misery, er ah, Missouri at St. Louis. These small chapel sized hamlets were the basis of the French claim to the Louisiana Territory.

if ya recall, said New Orleans was the sie of the last battle of the war of 1812, which happened after a peace treaty with UK was signed, It seems perfidious albion was up to its dirty tricks reputation + attempted to seize the Louisana territory if they succeeded in eliminating Andrew Jackson's presence there. A well know song commemorating this battle of New Orleans and its humiliation of the UK, resulted in that very song being re-translated by Lonnie Donergan who in his revision of history erased any mention of the bloody British by usin' the term the rebels.

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 Post subject: Re: d'Hautpoul, De Ros, DeVeaux, Guerrard, Godin
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2010 12:13 pm 
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I can't understand why Roger would be looking for Catholics in Cananda when in France the mystery surrounds groups of people who were enemies of Rome...the Cathars, the Waldensians..the entire south of France was known as a hot bed of heretics. People who just would not give up their old religions for the Universal Church/Government.

So why are you looking for Catholics in Canada?

And why Canada? The Huguenots ended up all over the world...including South Africa where a huge monument has been erected in memory of them. The exiled French went to colonies in Florida, Massachusettes, Virginia, South Carolina and Georgia. They named an island in Nova Scotia "Oak Island" and one in North Carolina by the same name (as above/north, so below/south).

Many of the families that left France were prominent people.
http://huguenotsocietyofamerica.org/?page=Huguenot-History
Quote:
The Huguenots were French Protestants. The tide of the Reformation reached France early in the sixteenth century and was part of the religious and political fomentation of the times. It was quickly embraced by members of the nobility, by the intellectual elite, and by professionals in trades, medicine, and crafts. It was a respectable movement involving the most responsible and accomplished people of France. It signified their desire for greater freedom religiously and politically. [b]The names of Huguenot leaders at that time included the royal houses of Navarre, Valois, and Condé; Admiral Coligny, and hundreds of other officers in the military.[/b] Marguerite d'Angoulême (pictured right), whom scholars have called "the first modern woman," was an early supporter of reform in the Catholic Church. She influenced her brother, Francis I, to be lenient with the Huguenots.


As Esther Forbes, wrote in Paul Revere and the World He Lived In (Boston: Houghton Mifflin Company, 1942):

Quote:
France had opened her own veins and spilt her best blood when she drained herself of her Huguenots, and everywhere, in every country that would receive them, this amazing strain acted as a yeast.


They acted like royalty because the were royalty. They married into the same families they had always married into....other royalty. Especially the royalty that had just been kicked out of Scotland...bonnie prince charlie's family...the Jacobites.

If you read their letters and books you will see that they communicated with other family members in other Huguenot areas...the De Veaux's had family members in Georgia, South Carolina and Nova Scotia...they were hedging their bets.

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 Post subject: Re: d'Hautpoul, De Ros, DeVeaux, Guerrard, Godin
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2010 1:04 pm 
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....


Last edited by Sheila on 14 Mar 2010 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: d'Hautpoul, De Ros, DeVeaux, Guerrard, Godin
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2010 1:19 pm 
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Top O the day to ya Sheila!

I get the feeling we are gonna find out we are related...I would be honored.

Dig around Sheila...'cause the history written by the powers that be are not entirely accurate...and sometimes are an out and out falsehood.

The French and Scots have the Auld Alliance, which is old enough, but I'm thinking it goes back even further than that. Research this week has taken me back to the Titans.

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 Post subject: Re: d'Hautpoul, De Ros, DeVeaux, Guerrard, Godin
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2010 1:35 am 
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Youz guyz are mentioning connections and such, how do ya think this set up will pan out? The US taxpayer is expected to foot the bill here, but they are officially bankrupt due to the derivatives fiasco...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4axRYJymHI

The loonie is bein' hyped up to have parity with a US buck, so I can imagine the Canucks ain't gonna be happy to see their country go in debt to bail out their southern neighbors. The kicker here is, the UK + France are heavily invested in Canada.

IMHO, this will force France + UK to get involved in buyin' all the toxic debts still bein' haggled 'boot on Wall Street. Its that 'UNION ' 'thang' that was brought up on another topic

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 Post subject: Re: d'Hautpoul, De Ros, DeVeaux, Guerrard, Godin
PostPosted: 11 May 2010 3:09 pm 
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Sheila wrote:
....



:o

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 Post subject: Re: d'Hautpoul, De Ros, DeVeaux, Guerrard, Godin
PostPosted: 11 May 2010 5:10 pm 
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Serendipity wrote:
I'm still reading the above document. (I am from Virginia, the shield includes the numbers 95 or 9th day 5th month...the beginning of the Festival of Lumeria.


You mean Lemuria? In the Roman calendar May would have been the 3rd month, not the 5th.

Serendipity wrote:
The d'Hautpoul's are related to the De Ros', and a De Ros' married a Maude/Matilda De Veaux. The Deveaux are from Normandy. They were related to William the Conq. and recieved lands in England for fighting with him.


Entirely different families. The Barons de Ros were Normans who emigrated to Britain aeons ago; the Ros family related to the Hautpouls were Catalans, completely unrelated to the former.

Serendipity wrote:
Anyone know where I can find the Castle of Vaux?


Which one? There were many.

TCP


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 Post subject: Re: d'Hautpoul, De Ros, DeVeaux, Guerrard, Godin
PostPosted: 11 May 2010 5:19 pm 
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Serendipity wrote:
I can connect the d'Hautpoul's to the French families that ended up in America...families that were French Royalty, masons, artists...connected to all of the events and places surrounding the Mystery of RLC...the place names originally used in america were even the same (many names have been changed since then).


Huh? Not one of these families you've listed were royalty, French or otherwise!

Serendipity wrote:
The Cathars and followers of Waldo were not Catholic, by the way...


The Waldensians were far closer to Catholicism than the Cathars were, and Waldenses and Cathars were about as different in their theologies as one can get. I know it's tempting to try to link all the known "heresies" together to make it look there was one big mass revolt against Catholic authority, but that isn't accurate. Not at all.

Since you asked about the surname "Vaux", and the Catholics termed the Waldenses as "Vaudois" (presumably after Peter Waldo, or so popular thinking goes), you might find alternate meanings of the work "vaud" (plural "vaux") of interest. Look for a meaning that relates directly to something the Waldenses were accused of.

TCP


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 Post subject: Re: d'Hautpoul, De Ros, DeVeaux, Guerrard, Godin
PostPosted: 11 May 2010 5:22 pm 
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jabberwock wrote:
Serendipity, a forum member wrote extensively of her family ties to Huguenots and other family ancestry that includes Matilda of Tuscany. It seems these Huguenots were a bit clannish, yes?


Which is a rather bizarre claim, given that Mathilda was the Catholic's Catholic in terms of her devotions - and she lived about five centuries to early to have been a Huguenot.

TCP


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 Post subject: Re: d'Hautpoul, De Ros, DeVeaux, Guerrard, Godin
PostPosted: 11 May 2010 5:25 pm 
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Serendipity wrote:
I believe it has something to do with the Auld Aliance between France and Scotland...because these families can also be found in Scotland and married into Scots families.


Which was a result of Norman and Flemish immigration in the wake of the Norman conquest centuries before the Auld Alliance, which dates only to 1295.

TCP


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 Post subject: Re: d'Hautpoul, De Ros, DeVeaux, Guerrard, Godin
PostPosted: 11 May 2010 5:45 pm 
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TCP wrote:
Serendipity wrote:
I'm still reading the above document. (I am from Virginia, the shield includes the numbers 95 or 9th day 5th month...the beginning of the Festival of Lumeria.


You mean Lemuria? In the Roman calendar May would have been the 3rd month, not the 5th.

Serendipity wrote:
The d'Hautpoul's are related to the De Ros', and a De Ros' married a Maude/Matilda De Veaux. The Deveaux are from Normandy. They were related to William the Conq. and recieved lands in England for fighting with him.


Entirely different families. The Barons de Ros were Normans who emigrated to Britain aeons ago; the Ros family related to the Hautpouls were Catalans, completely unrelated to the former.

Serendipity wrote:
Anyone know where I can find the Castle of Vaux?


Which one? There were many.

TCP



Ah! The one fella that may help shed some light on things for me....

Okay...I've got Robert de Ros marrying Isabel of Scotland. Many of the Surety Barons were related, and related to the king...they all have a little French in 'em. Surely Rose Trussebut (Robert's mom) was of French descent?

Then back one more generation you've got William de Braose, son of de Brus...which I reckon is the same family as Robert the Bruce....only they didn't use the 'de' in Scotland.

I need a map.

If you could help me untangle the Kings of Castile I sure would appreciate it. Those Fernando's and Alfonso's are driving me crazy. Do you know who Urraca of Poland was? Did she marry her nephew? Ugh!

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 Post subject: Re: d'Hautpoul, De Ros, DeVeaux, Guerrard, Godin
PostPosted: 11 May 2010 5:46 pm 
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TCP wrote:
Serendipity wrote:
I believe it has something to do with the Auld Aliance between France and Scotland...because these families can also be found in Scotland and married into Scots families.


Which was a result of Norman and Flemish immigration in the wake of the Norman conquest centuries before the Auld Alliance, which dates only to 1295.

TCP



I thought King Duncan invited them to Scotland?

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 Post subject: Re: d'Hautpoul, De Ros, DeVeaux, Guerrard, Godin
PostPosted: 11 May 2010 6:04 pm 
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Huh? Not one of these families you've listed were royalty, French or otherwise!


Excuse me?

The DeVeaux's, Guerrard's and Godins are descendants of the Kings of Europe...yep, got them all right here.

Let's see...Agnes de Ros born abt. 1295 was daughter of William de Ros and Maud De Vaux. Agnes had a daughter named Margaret that married Thomas Monthemer...the son of Joan of Acre.

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 Post subject: Re: d'Hautpoul, De Ros, DeVeaux, Guerrard, Godin
PostPosted: 11 May 2010 6:06 pm 
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Serendipity wrote:
I can't understand why Roger would be looking for Catholics in Cananda when in France the mystery surrounds groups of people who were enemies of Rome...the Cathars, the Waldensians..the entire south of France was known as a hot bed of heretics. People who just would not give up their old religions for the Universal Church/Government.


Not exactly. Heresies took root in the south (though not exclusively) but they encompassed only a small percentage of the population. There was a strong political and social resistance on the part of southerners against nationalization and the loss of traditional governance, rights and privileges; and to a large degree much of their anger was directed at the Church hierarchy which supported the monarchy. However, most of the disaffected were still loyal to the Catholic religion.

Serendipity wrote:
Many of the families that left France were prominent people.
http://huguenotsocietyofamerica.org/?page=Huguenot-History
Quote:
The Huguenots were French Protestants. The tide of the Reformation reached France early in the sixteenth century and was part of the religious and political fomentation of the times. It was quickly embraced by members of the nobility, by the intellectual elite, and by professionals in trades, medicine, and crafts. It was a respectable movement involving the most responsible and accomplished people of France. It signified their desire for greater freedom religiously and politically. [b]The names of Huguenot leaders at that time included the royal houses of Navarre, Valois, and Condé; Admiral Coligny, and hundreds of other officers in the military.[/b] Marguerite d'Angoulême (pictured right), whom scholars have called "the first modern woman," was an early supporter of reform in the Catholic Church. She influenced her brother, Francis I, to be lenient with the Huguenots.


This is a somewhat whitewashed account. Huguenot emigration from France began in earnest following the revocation of the Edict of Nantes in 1685, yet the names of the individuals cited above were involved in the religious tumult in France of a century prior. It is misleading to claim that the royal "houses" of Navarre, Valois and Condé were collectively Huguenot. Henri III of Navarre and his mother Jeanne d'Albret were Calvinists, as was his grandmother Marguerite de Valois-Angoulême and his uncle and first cousin, both called Henri de Bourbon, the Princes de Condé. Henri III of Navarre abjured his Calvinist faith and embraced Catholicism just before his coronation as Henri IV of France in 1593. The Princes de Condé did likewise. By 1685 when Henri's grandson Louis XIV revoked the Edict of Nantes, all members of the French royal house were exclusively Catholic.

Serendipity wrote:
They acted like royalty because the were royalty. They married into the same families they had always married into....other royalty. Especially the royalty that had just been kicked out of Scotland...bonnie prince charlie's family...the Jacobites.


Actually none of these immigrant Huguenot families you're looking at are royalty. Also. it's a pretty odd analogy to make between French Huguenots and the Stuarts - who were kicked out of Britain for being Catholic.

TCP


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 Post subject: Re: d'Hautpoul, De Ros, DeVeaux, Guerrard, Godin
PostPosted: 11 May 2010 6:12 pm 
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Quote:
You mean Lemuria? In the Roman calendar May would have been the 3rd month, not the 5th.


Well, the festival WAS held in MAY and May in NOW the 5th month. This year 5/9 was Mother's Day. Know anything about the Lemuria Festival? Would there possibly be any reason to associate the two? Not that a MOON festival has any female overtones to it. :roll:

I have found since then that 59 is a number sacred to the Memphis Rite.

It's also my birthday. And this year, when you add the digits of my age together you get 9. That's the age I'm claiming anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: d'Hautpoul, De Ros, DeVeaux, Guerrard, Godin
PostPosted: 11 May 2010 6:26 pm 
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Serendipity wrote:
Quote:
Huh? Not one of these families you've listed were royalty, French or otherwise!


Excuse me?

The DeVeaux's, Guerrard's and Godins are descendants of the Kings of Europe...yep, got them all right here.

Let's see...Agnes de Ros born abt. 1295 was daughter of William de Ros and Maud De Vaux. Agnes had a daughter named Margaret that married Thomas Monthemer...the son of Joan of Acre.


It's not enough to be merely descended from royalty (which most people of European ancestry are in one form or another). One has to be included in the line of succession, which in most instances was interpreted by male primogeniture. I myself am descended through female lines of nearly every historical royal house in Europe (and I guarantee you, so is everyone on this list and everyone you've ever met) but that doesn't qualify me as royalty.

TCP


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 Post subject: Re: d'Hautpoul, De Ros, DeVeaux, Guerrard, Godin
PostPosted: 11 May 2010 6:31 pm 
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Serendipity wrote:
Quote:
You mean Lemuria? In the Roman calendar May would have been the 3rd month, not the 5th.


Well, the festival WAS held in MAY and May in NOW the 5th month. This year 5/9 was Mother's Day. Know anything about the Lemuria Festival? Would there possibly be any reason to associate the two? Not that a MOON festival has any female overtones to it. :roll:


Actually, I do know about the Lemuralia and it wasn't a lunar celebration at all. Its dates were fixed according to the Julian Calendar in which May was the third month, so "5/9" doesn't have any relevance to it except by modern revision. A lunar festival would not have had fixed dates, it would be held according to the lunar cycles which didn't synch to a solar calendar.

TCP


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 Post subject: Re: d'Hautpoul, De Ros, DeVeaux, Guerrard, Godin
PostPosted: 11 May 2010 6:33 pm 
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Serendipity wrote:
TCP wrote:
Serendipity wrote:
I believe it has something to do with the Auld Aliance between France and Scotland...because these families can also be found in Scotland and married into Scots families.


Which was a result of Norman and Flemish immigration in the wake of the Norman conquest centuries before the Auld Alliance, which dates only to 1295.

TCP



I thought King Duncan invited them to Scotland?


Yes, but this was after the Norman invasion of England in 1066. Duncan was reforming his kingdom from a traditional Celtic model of governance to a Norman model. I guess he would have considered that "modernizing".

TCP


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 Post subject: Re: d'Hautpoul, De Ros, DeVeaux, Guerrard, Godin
PostPosted: 11 May 2010 6:47 pm 
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Serendipity wrote:
Ah! The one fella that may help shed some light on things for me....

Okay...I've got Robert de Ros marrying Isabel of Scotland. Many of the Surety Barons were related, and related to the king...they all have a little French in 'em. Surely Rose Trussebut (Robert's mom) was of French descent?


Yes.

Serendipity wrote:
Then back one more generation you've got William de Braose, son of de Brus...which I reckon is the same family as Robert the Bruce....only they didn't use the 'de' in Scotland.


No, "Braose" (or "Briouze") is not the same family as "Brus". Different families altogether.

Serendipity wrote:
If you could help me untangle the Kings of Castile I sure would appreciate it. Those Fernando's and Alfonso's are driving me crazy. Do you know who Urraca of Poland was? Did she marry her nephew? Ugh!


Do you mean Richeza of Poland, or Urraca of Portugal? Never heard of Urraca of Poland (and it would be an odd name for a Polish princess).

TCP


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 Post subject: Re: d'Hautpoul, De Ros, DeVeaux, Guerrard, Godin
PostPosted: 12 May 2010 10:14 am 
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Quote:
I thought King Duncan invited them to Scotland?

Yes, but this was after the Norman invasion of England in 1066. Duncan was reforming his kingdom from a traditional Celtic model of governance to a Norman model. I guess he would have considered that "modernizing".

TCP


King Duncan I died in 1044 so I doubt he did ANYTHING after 1066.

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 Post subject: Re: d'Hautpoul, De Ros, DeVeaux, Guerrard, Godin
PostPosted: 12 May 2010 10:31 am 
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Quote:
Do you mean Richeza of Poland, or Urraca of Portugal? Never heard of Urraca of Poland (and it would be an odd name for a Polish princess).


According to my notes, Urraca of Polland was married to Fernando II Alfonsez...she was the sister of King Alfonso VII and daughter of King Alfonso I and Urraca of Castile & Leon.

I think the 'Poland' in the title could very well be a misprint...that is why I asked for your help.

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