Thanks for confirming that. It's what I've been saying all along, but of course, certain people are just merely happy to distort what I say rather than discuss what I actually write.
Thanks for being a breath of fresh air.
As I said before, Wicca is distinct from ancient paganism and witchcraft itself. Hell, even pagans persecuted witches and the persecution of witches even carries on to this day.
The third degree reference you give is also suggestive of a Freemasonry influence, wouldn't you say?
But what I am saying, is that there existed an ancient (or ‘old’) religion in existence long before the advent of Christianity. (And I am not talking about Paganism, although some aspects of that may have become ‘interelated’).
Yes, and you identified this "old religion" (a term derived from Murray, who we've already discussed) as "Wicca". Hence your refutation to Gareth acknowledging that Wicca is largely derived from the nineteenth century onwards and isn't ancient: "If 'Wicca' was really only a '"19th centurn invention', then how could this possibly explain all the notorious 'witchcraft' persecutions and Inquistions of the 15th century (and before)?
You're obviously trying to revise what you've written (by suddenly changing Wicca to a much vaguer "ancient knowledge system"), but TCP sums up the concept of this so-called "ancient knowledge system" very well:
But to ascertain that these point without question to some sort of widespread institutionalized codification immediately pre-dating the advent of Christianity seems a weak argument, and something that the historical and archaeological record itself argues against.
In fact there is also the hypothesis that Christianity was Paganised specifically by Constantine in the building of Constantinople over the old byzantium and the statues stolen from the temples and made to adorn the new edifaces and by putting up the deriviatives of The Jerulsalem temple and fortifications via the walls of Constantinople on the periferary rather than Paganism being Christianised and according to the architectural records this argument is correct. Which over time does support your argument of an intergration rather than a mass destruction
As a Christian, even I can acknowledge that pagan practices were incorporated into Christian practice over time. After all, Jesus didn't tell us to put up Christmas trees in acknowledgment of his birthday.
In order to smooth the transition of converting pagans to Christianity, the early Chuches (and the pagans, themselves) integrated pagan practices into Christian ones. That said, there's a distinction between the religion/spirituality itself, as opposed to such amalgamations.
The point is here, however, that Wicca is far from an "ancient knowledge system". It is a modern amalgamation of paganism, occultism and so forth. As I said before, to lump a whole bunch of pagan/occultic practices together, centralise it into one religion and call it Wicca, and then claim it as "ancient" is a clear example of retroactive nomenclature and ignores historical fact.
Back to Dave,
Just to say this though at the moment: I never quote Internet sources - or rather, just paste them from elsewhere. I think that is pointless, which is why I never do it. You can quote just one source from some author, for example, and there will be a dozen others to contradict it. Or vice versa.
Firstly Dave, you and what you write are an internet source
. I hope you realise that.
Second, it's better to quote internet sources than have none at all
, wouldn't you say? The idea of quoting/citing one's source is so others know where you derived your knowledge/writings from. It's something even primary school children are taught to do.
And yes, sources will occasionally contradict each other. That's why we have this thing called "research", you see.
But you raise a legitmate point about Wicca which I will answer for you (without quotes!) tomorrow. But I am talking about a particular Knowledge System here; not general speculations (even the poetical ones of Graves) in which I was involved in. It went back a long time, way before Gardnier or the commercialised antics of the late Alex Sanders.
We'll see. Either way, lookin' forward to it.