Arcadia Discussion Zone

I am working on something that some of you UKers might be able to help on. The site near London (actually in London now), called Charing Cross has some evidence of being called "Chere Reine", for "my beloved queen",prior to the current name, but I cannot find anything that could ultimately prove that. I do know it was called either of these names because it was the 12th resting place of " Eleanor of Castile" on her funeral procession to London. Edward I, evidently had a memorial cross erected at each of the 12 stops. One theory has it as being named Charing eariler and the word Cross added after this event, and another has it named "Chere Reine" at the time of the procession (between 1291 and 94), later becoming Charing. I am looking for this information in relation to another "Charing Cross" and how it might be connected.---Bill

...Guys..please do not overlook the great importance of Queen Eleanor is all this...as explained often in my (Dan Green) work involving Lincoln Cathedral and RLC...

www.ellisctaylor.homestead.com/cjmindmotion.html

cj, I assume you are Dan Green. I don't overlook the importance of Queen Eleanor, but I think I traveled a different path then you did. I will say that is very interesting, and as my own ideas are kind of far out (not that far though) I don't discount anybody elses theorys. Do you have any information on the village of "Charing Cross" that could add to what Roger has said.---Bill'

..have to amicably disagree with my friend Roger saying because the name predates Eleanor she can't be the inspiration for the name. Well, chronologically that's true, but hey, doesn't it just confirm what I am always saying about the mechanism and workings of the Collective Unconscious, how it is responsible for leading people to places? Queen Eleanor - Chere Reine - and her final cross arriving at a place already called Cheringge? Snap!!

What does the word "Cheringge" mean or imply? Does it have the same meaning as Chere Reine? either you or Roger could probably answer this for me.---Bill

hmm...everything else aside...these Eleanor Crosses look exactly like les "Montjoies" that were constructed at the end of the XII c. along the route that led to St Denis....and demolished in 1793.

Les « Montjoies ». Le nom de Montjoie donné aux croix élevées au bord de la route de Paris à Saint-Denis sous le règne de Philippe III (1270 à 1285) —qu’on voit sur le premier plan, à proximité de la Montjoie primitive—, petits monuments gothiques, ne furent désignées sous ce nom qu’à une époque relativement récente. Jalonnant la route qui menait de Paris à Saint-Denis [L'Estrée], elles furent regardées comme « protégeant » les passants. Elles furent démolies comme « signes de la religion et de la royauté » en 1793. Cette gravure anonyme à l’eau-forte de la fin du 17e siècle en conserve l’aspect [hexagonale, trois niches aveugles sur la plaine, troix niches avec trois grandes statues de rois orientés vers la route]. Vestige supposé d’une des sept Montjoies de Saint-Denis. On trouve une croix de ce type à Charing Cross et qui lui donne son nom à Londres, faite sur ce modèle. Autre exemple: Quartier de la croix de pierre à Rouen. Et les Eleanor Crosses…

I didn't write that post, why won't the answer matter?---Bill

like a Perron..."stones of justice" ?

The Saxons, that is to say the inhabitants of the right bank of the Rhine, venerated, on their side, wooden or stone pillars dedicated to the god Irmin; such was the famous Irminsul demolished by the order of Charlemagne.

ah....Perron....Irminsul!

Irminsul - derived from the lopped oak.

I have no information on this, however the area of London south of the Thames, within walking distance from Charing Cross, known as 'Elephant and Castle' is a corruption of 'Infanta de Castile' and relates to the lady in question.

Rhyming slang was very popular in London (as it still is today, viz. Britney Spears = Beers and Tina Turner = an earner, a remunerative enterprise of some kind). Swearing was a BIG imprisonable offence. Thus 'Cor blimey' served for 'God blind me' and 'Swelp me Bob' for 'So help me God'.

Hmm...or as Wiki says..maybe not..?



Hello to you Whoop_John...hoping you are well.

Probably not, as you say. It's a fun story.[/quote]
I am quite well thank you, although practicing martial arts after a lifetime of sloth is proving a challenge. I hope everyone else is thriving?

I am quite well thank you, although practicing martial arts after a lifetime of sloth is proving a challenge. I hope everyone else is thriving?[/quote]


Thanks whoop john, Nice try, I have been trying to connect the "Charing Cross" near London (actually in London, I guess), with the "Charing Cross" in Nova Scotia. The place in N.S. is now simply called the cross, and many think it is because of two roads crossing there, but I have talked to several Nova Scotians who have told me it was called Charing Cross. Some have even seen the old signage. Supposedly it was named this before the historical record of N.S., and the name would have come from somebody connected with the same village in London (I think).---Bill

I have a few maps that show the area. The earliest I have that names the cross is the Braun & Hogenberg, engraved around 1560. It calls it Charyncros. There was certainly a substantial feature standing in the junction of the road leading into the city and south towards Westminster.



It's also on the Munster map of 1598.



Earlier maps are hard to find. Here is a diagram of the area in Chaucer's day:



Stowe's 'A Survey of London', 1598, has this to say: 'There was an hospital of St Marie Rouncivall by Charing Cross (a cell to the priory and convent of Roncesvalles in Navarre, in Pamplona diocese) where a fraternity was founded in the 12th of Edward IV., but now the same is suppressed and and turned into tenements.'

'Near unto this hospital was a hermitage, with a chapel of St Katherine, over against Charing Cross; which cross, built of stone, was of old time a fair piece of work, there made by commandment of Edward I., in the 21st year of his reign, in memory of Eleanor, his deceased Queen, as is before declared.'

I take the 'before declared' to mean that there was an inscription in front of the actual cross to that effect, rather than being before declared in the book.

Thanks again whoop john. Back to the village in Nova Scotia. I also have a photo of a WWII gun emplacement at the entrance to the village, with the name "Charing Cross" on the concrete stand. It kind of looks like the concrete is from a far older time period, and now in the guns place on the same stand is a war memorial. The words on the stand are long gone ( these are the words of the person who sent me the photo).
This village is about 15 miles as the crow flies from "Mahone Bay" (Oak Island). Evidently the gun was positioned to protect the little village in case attacked from that direction.
Perhaps it is simply a matter of someone who had ties in "Charing Cross" England naming the one in N.S., but with the evidence of a much older village (14th century and older)discovered by "Joan Hope" it begins to look like a possibly older connection.---Bill

Another interesting find made this week concerning those Eleanor Crosses.
An exact copy of Chartres' Labyrinth is at the Priory LSST Academy situated at Cross O'Cliff Hill in Lincoln where the Eleanor Cross once stood, on land that belonged to the Templars. The students walk the labyrinth as part of their initiation to the College. A chapel at the Academy is designed on the basis of a Templar chapel including a dome with seven stars representing the Corona Borealis the constellation associated with the Cretan legend, Corona Borealis belonging to the Ursa Major family of constellations, for those interested in the conclusion reached by Greg Rigby in his 'The God Secret'.
Some interesting Magdalene synchroncities - one of Eleanor's children who died in infancy was called Berengaria. Station 12 at Stamford has been replaced by a modern monument carved with roses, and Station 12 at Grantham, (home of Dan Green's mysterious spurious Victor Hugo Wyville document at the Library within the Isaac Newton centre) all that survives is a marble rose in the town museum.
Watch this space - Dan has an interesting hypothesis on the way!

cj, You made an interesting post which I am trying to understand. What do you mean by "watch this space"? Is Dan Green going to post something on this subject, or am I misunderstanding this? Because of the various info I have come across on "Charing Cross" I do believe the one in Nova Scotia and the village of the same name in London are connected. Joan Hope, the discoverer of the ancient city at New Ross (Charing Cross) Nova Scotia, also believed they were connected, and not by some 17th century explorer or settler, but shortly after 1294. 1294 is the date that the 12 Eleanor Crosses were first erected in England, and now you mention a Templar connection.---Bill

They chose Charing Cross to place the London Stone. It's now actually at Cannon Street Station, former home of the Hanseatic League in London. The stone is thought to be part of the altar built by Brutus of Troy

And for those who have read The Messianic Legacy The papers supposedly seen by Michael Baigent and spoken about in his The Jesus Papers were deposited in a bank at Charing Cross.

How do you work that one out? London Stone was the place where all distances were measured from, as mentioned by Shakespeare. It represented the centre of London, situated as it was conveniently at a very central spot within the old walled city. About a mile and a half from where Charing Cross was later placed, 3/4 of a mile outside the city walls. Hardly a landmark to measure distances from.

London Stone is mentioned by Stowe as being in the Cannon Street location before the Norman Conquest, where it is mentioned in a document from the time of King Aethelstan.

Stow says"...pitched upright is a great stone called London Stone, fixed in the ground very deep, fastened with bars of iron, and otherwise so strongly set, that if carts do run against it through negligence, the wheels be broken and the stone itself unshaken."

It was certainly an ancient place of assembly and a place where you could not be arrested for free speech (in common with the stone in Parliament Hill fields), which is why the peasants' revolt assembled here in June of 1381.

There is a theory that before the Greek Temple where St Pauls now stands was a stone circle and that London Stone was an outlying stone connected with it. The stone originally stood on a direct line from St Pauls to the ancient mound where Bran's head was buried and where the tower of London now resides. It was originally opposite St Swithin's Church, half projecting out into the road.

The confusion may come from the fact that at the present time all distances from London are measured from "Charing Cross". This would be different then a spot from that where the Romans measured all distances from Britannia.---Bill

Now you're talking...sounds very similar to what we've been discussing regarding the origins of Paris and the sacred site on the Lendit...the distances from Lutèce, the limit of the oppidum Mont Martre, the mound of "Montjoie" & St Denis....and the cephalophores.

One of my posts above showed the similarity between the "montjoies" built on this route and the Charing cross you are discussing.

I would be interested in any distances between Bran's head & the cathedral.

Not sure if this is what you are looking for Sheila, but from "The Tower of London" (Brans Head) to "St. Pauls Cathedral", the distance is 1657.65 meters, or in american 1.03 miles.---Bill

Thank you Bill,

I think we need to be in Roman miles @ 1480 metres, or more likely a league "leuga gallica" @ 2222/2223 m...or break it down into stades/185m......etc

Or for Roscoe ....the distance would be 560 Perticas/Perches ( @ 2.96 m)