Arcadia Discussion Zone

For Renaissance man who said;




No....there will be no "h".

(geminae cristae)..... the object in question is in the shape of a Greek cross with its upper arm divided in two curving lines. This symbol evoked the rising sun (crista, from crescere 'to grow' alludes to the ascending movement of the newborn sun).

Ren Man


I'm with you on that



Well according to my Bible
16:13 Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the presence of his brothers; and the spirit of the LORD came mightily upon David from that day forward. Samuel then set out and went to Ramah.

Now what is interesting about Samuel
many issues come up
One is that Jewish men could have more than one wife
though the tended to monogamy some had more than one for certain reasons
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=425&letter=P
Hannah was a first wife and the other wife was Penninah
Herod had 9 wives
Another interesting thing I learned with Hannah was that women could enter the tent
they could stand at the doorway and pray ...the ark of the covenant was at the other end
Hannah prayed for a child in the tent in front of the Priest Eli who gives her his blessing

Another revelation is in Samuel 1:22 the sons of Eli (Priests) layed with the women who served at the entrance of the tent of meeting
they were scumbags

this could allude to Astarte

ancient Levant as Ashtart and in the Hebrew Bible as Ashtereth, the beautiful Astarte may owe many of her characteristics to Mesopotamian Ishtar, as the similarity in their names proclaims. Like Ishtar, Astarte seems to have had strong connections with both war and love/sexuality. In historical times, she received offerings in ancient Ugarit in Syria; her name appears forty-six times in texts from that city. One of her main centers was Byblos, where she was identified with Egyptian goddesses Hathor and Isis. In the second millennium BCE, Astarte was, like Anat, a war goddess of the Egyptians (Patai 1990:56). Large numbers of ancient Israelites revered her, and versions of her name occur at least nine times in the Hebrew Bible. She was also an important deity of the Phoenician towns of Tyre and Sidon, whence she and her veneration spread with Phoenician merchants throughout the Mediterranean

Two passages in the Book of Jeremiah (7.17-18 and 44.15-19) refer to ancient Israelite worship of a "Queen of Heaven." These passages provide a very rare glimpse into ritual practices of Judahite popular religion. Around the turn of the seventh century BCE, Jeremiah preaches to Israelite exiles in Egypt. To his horror whole families, with women in the lead, were making offerings to a goddess. They poured libations, built fires, and baked "cakes [kawwanim] for the Queen of Heaven" (Jer.7:18). The scholarly literature presents a number of theories about who the "Queen of Heaven" was (Toorn 1998:83-88; Patai 1990:64). However, since "Queen of Heaven" was one of the many titles of the Mesopotamian goddess Inanna-Ishtar, for whom worshippers also made cakes [kamanu], it is possible that the goddess in the Jeremiah passages was Astarte

Astarte is called Queen of Heaven just as Aphrodite is called the Heavenly, Urania. Astarte is worshipped with incense altars and dove sacrifices as is Aphrodite.



In John 12, Mary of Bethany anointed Jesus' feet presumably in gratitude for raising her brother Lazarus from the dead, and in preparation for his death and burial. The Bible records washing of the saint's feet being practiced by the primitive church in I Timothy 5:10 perhaps in reference to piety, submission and/or humility.

Jesus does it


on the anointing of David by Samuel which I point out he did with a HORN of oil

is when you read the book of Samuel
Samuel isn't really a very good guy...in fact he is downright mean
One wonders who was his god?

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=425&letter=P

http://www.aakkl.helsinki.fi/melammu/database/gen_html/a0001156.php

Louvian, The annointing at John 12 is the same one as mentioned by Matthew in chapter 26 and Mark in chapter 14, they are written by supposedly three different individuals, although the gospel of John was of course authored by Mary Magdalene. In both Matthew and Mark the annointing takes place two days before the passover in the house of Simon the leper as he sat to supper. The version in John only says Jesus was in Bethany six days before passover, not that the annointing took place then. In all three accounts they were upset over the cost of the spikenard oil used for the annointing, and the version in John also mentions Judas Iscariot as Simons son which would indicate, because of the other similarities that it took place at Simons house. In the first two versions the unnamed woman pours the contents over Jesus head in the third, Mary of Bethany annoints his feet. all three accounts are during the same passover, so either everytime Jesus had supper someone dumped oil on him or these are all versions of the same event. What this actually shows is some later transcribers, or possibly the original authors themselves, trying to edit the importance of Mary Magdalene out of the scriptures. In the case of the fourth gospel it would indicate a later editing as, I assume MM would seeminly not edit herself out of the book. Both of the annointings covered by Luke are of this same event. Lukes problem is that he was never around during any of this and he recieved his information from Paul, who also was never around---Bill

I do believe the 3 anoitings Bill mentioned were the same,just described differently,as most of the Good Book seems to be. If thats the case,then when was he anointed in order to be the Messiah,i don`t think the Bible mentions this.But the above theory makes sense and is practical also.

In the Gospel of Mary,Levis tells Peter surely the Saviour knows her well,that is why he loves her more than us.kinda seems like the Apostles are realizing MM`s importance is greater than theirs,and maybe a tad bit upset over the fact.Good call Bill.

Bill Crimson Ghost
It does seem like Mary Magdalene is being edited out and yet they need her to do the anointing

but the big fact is that they complained about the expense

Mary was wealthy and she supported Jesus as well as the other women
Ok back to the Dreamer of the Vine
page 154
the great vine of the sangraalhas many divisions many possible futures
Lorraine
Guise
Blanchefort
Gizors
Joinville(ahhh the Seneschal ...Louis IX friend)
Chaumont
Courtenay
Montpezat
Gonzaga
Charnay
Brienne
Saint Clair
any link in the chain and the future shifts and changes it shape

[ quote="lovuian"]but the big fact is that they complained about the expense[/quote] They did complain and thought the oil should have been sold and the money given to the poor,it seems fairly obvious that they didn`t care too much for a lavish lifestyle.Which makes me wonder why Jesus would have been using a fancy golden cup "Holy Grail" at the last supper,of course if one prefers the cup to be the Grail.or a golden cup that caught his blood.

or fallopian tube? which would also allude to growth....

They did complain and thought the oil should have been sold and the money given to the poor,it seems fairly obvious that they didn`t care too much for a lavish lifestyle.Which makes me wonder why Jesus would have been using a fancy golden cup "Holy Grail" at the last supper,of course if one prefers the cup to be the Grail.or a golden cup that caught his blood.[/quote]

Hmmm, interesting subject, The nature of the Grail. I'm sure it must have been discussed to death before either of us joined this forum, but I would like to hear what most of the members believe it to be, or what they think it represents. Why don't you start a thread CG?---Bill

Bill I wouldn't mind that at all

page 149
of the desperate and secret flight of the exiles at Marseilles
(that is from the panel and stained glass windows and oral tradition)
and the HIDDEN TREASURE that was BORNE among them
Blood of Judah and Benjamin conjoined
the Chosen of the Chosen
the HEIR to the KINGDOM
the sangraal
the blood royal
Godefrei de Bouillion had merely returned home
to reclaim his heritage


Well now we see what is going on the Houses minds ...the Agenda

Lov, what do you believe the treasure that was borne among them to be.

Qedesh

Lady of heaven

mistress of all the gods

http://www.matrifocus.com/LAM07/spotlight.htm



A Holy Trinity or Ménage à trois

There will be no H and no frigin fallopian tube......ARE YOU ALL MAD

It is a PAGAN object, it has nothing to do with christ or any part of a womans body

Let us look at the Houses
Lorraine
well that is the Cross of Lorraine



The House of Lorraine is one of the most important and longest-reigning royal houses in the history of Europe.[1] During the last 87 years the house has been headed by Otto von Habsburg-Lothringen, the titular Emperor of Austria, King of Hungary, Croatia, Bohemia, Galicia and Lodomeria, Illyria, as well as the titular King of Jerusalem.[2]

House of Guise
The House of Guise was founded as a cadet branch of the House of Lorraine by Claude of Lorraine, first Duke of Guise (1496–1550), who entered French service and was made a duke by King Francis I. Claude's daughter, Mary of Guise (1515–1560), married King James V of Scotland and was mother of Mary I of Scotland.

Hose of Blanchefort (Rennes Chateau)
“TERRIBILIS EST LOCUS ISTE” – This Place is Terrible, taken from Jacob’s Dream. That same theme, Jacob’s Dream, is illustrated above the entrance of the church of Gisors.

House of Gizors
That is where the cutting of the Elm was
The most famous pillar is “le pilier des tanneurs” – the pillar of the tanners
“TERRIBILIS EST LOCUS ISTE” – This Place is Terrible, taken from Jacob’s Dream. That same theme, Jacob’s Dream, is illustrated above the entrance of the church of Gisors.

"Lazare”.

Connection to the Royal Order of Saint Louis

House of Joinville
Joinville Memoirs of Saint Louis ....

All the characters are mixed together De Sede Sauniere Jean-Luc Chaumeil De Gaulle


Charroux was a pioneer of the pseudoscience of ancient astronauts, publishing at least six non-fiction works in this genre in the last decade of his life, including One Hundred Thousand Years of Man's Unknown History (1963, 1970), Forgotten Worlds (1973), Masters of the World (1974), The Gods Unknown (1974) and Legacy of the Gods (1974).
He was a comic lover like me

In 1999, Atomas, Prof. Sinclair and his daughter, Bella, thwart the evil schemes of the megalomaniacal Borg (Sinclair's former student), who wishes to become Master of the World
http://www.coolfrenchcomics.com/atomas.htm


Now let us not be into too much hurry here
We will get to the House of Saint Clair

http://www.philipcoppens.com/gisors.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Charroux[url][/url]

Have you had a good close up look at this pillar btw....very interesting.

Tingra

Ahh No



Perhaps we have a different take on the SPIRITUAL SYMBOL

SYMBOLS mean different things to different people
I think Robert Langdon explains this

I think it is the height of Arrogance to presume to tell people that THIS is the ONLY meaning to a SPIRITUAL SYMBOL

how many more times.....IT IS NOT A SPIRITUAL SYMBOL

Robert Langdon

mad as hatters

who the heck is Robert Langdon btw?....seriously!

At least you guys and gals are getting a sense of humor

Here in Sheila's picture the symbol is on the pillar in a CHURCH
It is a Spiritual Symbol here

Thanks Sheila for the picture
Merci'

Maria ISZG

"Welcome Initiates" that is where we are in the book
and that is what the Pillar at Gizors may symbolize

Hemlock was used in Tanning
bark of many trees produced the chemical

on the front of the Book we see the picture of Death with a crown
Interestingly there is a symbol of a corpse half broken up in a tomb
“DEAD QVISQVIS ADES YOU CADES STA, RESPICE, PLORA, SUM QVOD ERIS, MODICVM CINERIS PRO ME, PRECOR, ORA”

“Which that you would be, you will be embanked by Death. Remain there, take guard, cries. I am what you will be, a heap of ash. Beseech requests for me”


Nostradamus deals with Death in the book
The Initiate must face Death

Rain


the treasure could mean many things

Borne is a interesting word

Carried Supported
Bear
and then the word Bone is in there

In the book Dreamer of the Vine

they brought a book with them

Sheila and Tingra,
Thank you for making your view on the crista clear. At least i know where to start from.

And Roger

Just one question for you to think about.
If it has no spiritual value why did it have such a dramatic effect throughout history, always associated with a religion, and why are so many religious interests hunting for it today?

Maybe you haven't noticed but Roger himself has refered to the "spiritual aspect" of this twice recently. Thats a first.

It all depends on the spiritual value it has doesn't it.

The question was not addressed to you personally Roger, yet you have changed the quote in your post above to make it read as though it was. Yet another first. For the forum probably.
What next?

Do you understand what Renaissance Man and I are saying

the Crista or Christa ...is SPIRITUAL

You have showed us it's SYMBOL in Catholic CHURCHES

as illustrated on the Pillar and seen in many churches

Many symbols in the Catholic Church has come from pagan religions
the Christa is not the ONLY ONE

I have seen the All seeing eye of RA at the churches


this is a Egyptian symbol ... a religious symbol ....it is used by the Freemasons
it is used on the dollar bill

It is a SYMBOL and Spiritual symbol
Symbolism is the use of multiple symbols representing differentiated terms in a system which conveys meaning.

Your in a church ...it is spiritual ... it is ART
As a stained glass maker Emil Frei's son told me
His father trained in the Bavarian schools of stained glass windows apprenticeship many years
"The viewer must participate"
It is the reason he gets phone calls from many people asking what his father was saying in the stained glass windows
His father didn't write it down...He wasn't going to TELL the Viewer what he saw...He was allowing the viewer to participate

You don't understand the magic, alchemy, and workings of the mind ..."a picture is worth a thousand words"

It is a spiritual language ...
the cross is a symbol of Christianity. However, a cross set on fire on a lawn is a distinct, racist symbol of the Ku Klux Klan,

it is not just the symbol ...it is the viewer ( who are they and what they believe makes a difference in reading it)

You have said it is an object ...a sacred object of power
maybe its power isn't the object ...maybe it is the symbol

All I ask you guys and gals is think about it

Your missing a major point in this whole thing

Lov:

On the contrary, a point is trying to be made by...


Yes, and I as I am in the same boat I commiserate. But I would like it if you could take a moment to understand the point that is being made here. I agree with Renaissance and you but if you have a "spiritual" problem then it is best done on theological debates forum or in church. Or something of that nature. It is outside the scope and cannot be properly addressed here.



VIRGIL'S AENEID BOOK VI



It's CristaE ---as defined by Sheila when she prompts us to examine Virgil. It's MATERIAL, in other words it's real, it's tangible, it exists and touchable/viewable.




They have shown us depictions of the Crista, not abstract concepts. Here is the difference If I was to paint a sunflower it would be a sunflower with yellow petals and it's centre of sunflower seeds, now if if my motivation was paint Phi in nature I might also paint a sunflower with emphasis on the centre seeds. The symbols in the pictures they have shown us have been mainly the former not the later, which shows us how it actually looks and gives us terms of reference for the object. Do you understand???


What churches??? Sheila has only given us one pillar here to examine.

Virgil






By looking at the dates we can see the CristaE is not the cross of J.C's cruxifiction but existed before and is of "Greek derivation."