Arcadia Discussion Zone

..go on, try us...

"The ungirders of the soul, which give her breathing, are easy to be loosed"

But.......pardon my ignorance....how can you loosen up the Soul using an "inanimate" object...that is "apparently" covered in gold and jewels added at a later date...how does it work...how can it possibly affect or influence the newly dead or the dying?

If we believe in this world around us as immaterial then what possible use to us is a material object?

Thanks, I now know what the French for comma is, which I didn't, before this evening.

And of course, it's insertion completely changes the meaning of the phrase, as you say.

But part of the reason why I referred to the Dagobert message, albeit a little tentatively, was because I'm wondering if, in the context of the theory about Sauniere, cults of the dead, and Cristas, it would be worthwhile to review some of the PdS material such as the parchments, Le Serpent Rouge, the De Sede book, etc. to look for veiled references to such things. As opposed to the allusions people have typically looked for - holy grails, bloodlines, sacred burials, etc. Given that it is asserted that de Cherisey at the very least, and perhaps Plantard as well, did happen to know the truth of this matter.

It was really just a casual thought about how some of the PdS material, however discredited, perhaps comes into play again in the context of the crista / cult theory.

The French researcher P Silvain has a theory - and I know he is said to have some wild theories, but this one is interesting, I think, at least as an argument - that whilst the de-coding of the parchment is accurate, it has been incorrectly read (if you're French) or translated (if you're English). I've mentioned this before, mainly as a diversion, which it probably is now, but for what it's worth, his theory goes something as follows.

First line of code:

A Dagobert II

As in - "to Dagobert", as in addressing Dagobert, as in presenting something to him.

Roi et a Sion est ce tresor

He switches the order round, so it goes "... this treasure, the King of Sion (King of the Jews)" - obviously going for the "virgule" option on the "il est la mort" bit to follow, intimating that Dagobert is being presented with an important body.

est il est la mort

He's referring to a body, as shown above, but has three meanings for the phrase, all of which he believes are vaild:

1. He is there dead (as in the body is buried here / over there).
2. It is death (the penalty for entering the tomb is death).
3. By inserting an apostrophe between the "l" and the "a" of "la" - it becomes "il est l'amor(e)" - as in he is love (like Christ).

I don't think I believe that, and it's a diversion really - sorry - but I still like it as an example of lateral thinking.

But I still think that the parchments, and other such material, might be worth having another look at in the context of a cult of the dead, and the crista, though.

The treasure...it is death....simple....Death is the treasure.

I don't know why he thinks it would be, but if I were writing a Dan Brown style novel set in RLC, and wanted to use that translation of the message in the plot, I'd say it was a wedding gift from the Visigoths when Dagobert married Giselle of the Razes.

That's not right...i'm not sure i like this Crista much or the fact that money buys the password to sidestepping what is our destiny!....death is a doorway into a wonderful world, and no one should be afraid of it, death urges us to use our lifetime wisely to shape our tomorrows, to actively and consciously use our divine possibilities.... we are meant to ready ourselves apparently to stride through the portals of death well prepared....not save our pennies and hand it over to the bearer who wields or incants the key!
Fuck their money & their greed...surely the more strongly we are connected to the material side of nature, the longer the purification process is.....surely the more spiritual our life and thoughts have been, the easier our transition into the spiritual world becomes.

I'd say it was a wedding gift from the Visigoths when Dagobert married Giselle of the Razes.

You arent that far off Richard ...

Sheila,

What ya say here...That's not right...i'm not sure i like this Crista much or the fact that money buys the password to sidestepping what is our destiny!....death is a doorway into a wonderful world, and no one should be afraid of it, death urges us to use our lifetime wisely to shape our tomorrows, to actively and consciously use our divine possibilities.... we are meant to ready ourselves apparently to stride through the portals of death well prepared....not save our pennies and hand it over to the bearer who wields or incants the key!
Fuck their money & their greed...surely the more strongly we are connected to the material side of nature, the longer the purification process is.....surely the more spiritual our life and thoughts have been, the easier our transition into the spiritual world becomes.

It almost comes across as if yer a Catholic. If yer not a Catholic, which has pointedly been mentioned by Pope Ben 16, yer in a bind here. The spiritual world ya thinking 'boot is more reminiscent of a muslim getting his 70 virgins in paradise. Now you tell me how is a guy supposed to behave around 70 chatting women? If ya notice, muslim women are left to fend + forage for themself in paradise, what do they do there?

Since yer not a muslim Sheila, ya have even fewer viable options. Ya gotta be accepted by Jesus on yer Judgement day the nano sec after ya die, if Jesus sez sorry its too late, down ya go. What is yer vision of eternity gonna be in those circumstances? Hell is one helluva place if ya care to read what John Bosco or Sr. Faustina relate. Folk on earth tend to forget Jesus mentions the place where there will be weeping + gnashing of teeth along with the torments of hell.

Sheila,

What ya say here...That's not right...i'm not sure i like this Crista much or the fact that money buys the password to sidestepping what is our destiny!....death is a doorway into a wonderful world, and no one should be afraid of it, death urges us to use our lifetime wisely to shape our tomorrows, to actively and consciously use our divine possibilities.... we are meant to ready ourselves apparently to stride through the portals of death well prepared....not save our pennies and hand it over to the bearer who wields or incants the key!
Fuck their money & their greed...surely the more strongly we are connected to the material side of nature, the longer the purification process is.....surely the more spiritual our life and thoughts have been, the easier our transition into the spiritual world becomes.

It almost comes across as if yer a Catholic. If yer not a Catholic, which has pointedly been mentioned by Pope Ben 16, yer in a bind here. The spiritual world ya thinking 'boot is more reminiscent of a muslim getting his 70 virgins in paradise. Now you tell me how is a guy supposed to behave around 70 chatting women? If ya notice, muslim women are left to fend + forage for themself in paradise, what do they do there?

Since yer not a muslim Sheila, ya have even fewer viable options. Ya gotta be accepted by Jesus on yer Judgement day the nano sec after ya die, if Jesus sez sorry its too late, down ya go. What is yer vision of eternity gonna be in those circumstances? Hell is one helluva place if ya care to read what John Bosco or Sr. Faustina relate. Folk on earth tend to forget Jesus mentions the place where there will be weeping + gnashing of teeth along with the torments of hell.

.......i'm gonna need a bit of time to digest tonights discussion, thank you Roger.

Jake...GTF.

Sorry no..i'll re-phrase that.....edited to say.



Jake...Get tae fuck

Had there actually been a Gisele de Razes, it would make it less far off...

You mean .. like ... if the Cathars were really practising a death cult ritual? And charging money for it? We wouldnt be that far off about knowing what Sauniere was doing ; )



PS I was informed of where DII's visigothic treasure is buried ; )

Hence the full quote was:



To which was added:



All I really meant, Sandy, was that this would be one way of following through on Silvain's idea. I wasn't suggesting it might actually be true. But any ideas you have that it might be would be interesting, of course.

You must be back from a recent trip, I think? Hope it was a good one, and productive. And that the Eco books were enjoyed.

Sheila, Could ya be so kind a spell out 'zakly what it is that got yer nickers in a twist? Yer reply is not clear to me. Since we all gotta die, what kind of special deal do ya think yer gonna get with the ultimate Good Shepherd?

His job on earth was to lead all souls to a heavenly reward, that's why clerics are ref'd to as keepers of the flock. If a cleric fails to prevent his flock from going to hell, he takes the blame, are ya aware of that? Several of the parables Jesus related had to do with unfaithful servants or shepherds, which are directly related to the spiritual realm ya mentioned, are meant as a warning to all clerics.

Unless a man be borne again of water and the Spirit sez quite clearly ya better be a hard core believing Catholic if ya expect to enter heaven, yes? That's the same message Pope Ben 16 is repeating on a regular basis. So why do ya shoot me the messenger?, I don't understand that part.

You sound like a Cathar, sheila.

See, that's the whole part of the Rise that I don't get -- fine they aren't the New Age romantics people like Deodat Roche and others turned them into, but the one thing you couldn't accuse them of was materialism. Just the opposite.

but ...if the Cathars were just the southern french extension of an inherited doctrine ... remembering that the sacrement originally came from the east, heading westward towards southern France via the Manicheans, Armenium Paulicianism, Balkan Bogomils, the Lombards etc.....and if all these original people received a fee.....then?

.....the Cathars were just Arian Bogomils with a Languedocian accent.

I agree, too -very tired of how material things have become. It is especially rampant here in Texas, I think. The other thing rampant here in Texas are churches on every corner in many denominations (offshoots of Baptist, mostly) run very business-like and with behavior and calculations such as Roger describes :

AND


Some of the other part of the discussion about treasure of death reminds me of this painting which for some reason Wickedpedia describes as Francis I receiving the last breath of Leonardo da Vinci in 1519, by Ingres (1818). Where others just call it the Death of Leonardo Da Vinci

PS

I came across that painting after this one of Francis I - which also is rather interesting...

"...and he is there dead" sounds like what the soldiers said when they informed the family that Dagobert had been killed. "Sion" and "Dagobert" in the same sentence reminds us of the Bloodline.

Here`s a Portal for you Jake, just as Dante himself described it - as icy and not hot as is the common conception.

Roger ... is it possible ever to be anything but astounded by your duplicitous sleight of hand?
For the past year you have had your foot firmly on the end of the buffet table, tilting it in the direction you saw fit.
Tonight you say the crista is not necessary and that those who seek it may well be ill informed. How right you are - its as much use as a ju-ju stick to a witch doctor ... and somehow I don't see you in a grass skirt.
But I do see you with your foot on the other end of the table - but don't worry, these things are self regulating.

Richard ... you really have the knack don't you.
Pierre's third theorem ... isn't it written that the innocent will inherit the earth.

Sheila ... why should this be after death??
Were the Visigoth kings dead when they were able to do it?
Forget what you have read about the consolamentum, the crista and all the other rubbish

...... just open your heart to the Dove.

Marie Antionette daughter of Francis I. That`s a very mythological outfit he`s wearing in the above painting! Would you say that it is Hermetic?

The above quote is a totally unsubstantiated comment from someone with a huge vested interest in portraying the Cathars as a fee charging cult of the dead.

Yo Renne, its a shame a blend of religion + politics gets involved in so many things. Be it Michelangelo depicting clerics who tormented him as being in hell. so to did Dante, by way of passive aggression see his tormentors in hell.

I ref to the feud 'tween Guelfs + Ghibellines. Dante got caught up in that mess and is most likely the source of agitation that spurred him on to write his not so funny 'Comedia'. BTW, he didn't call it Divine, that was added on later.

This quote comes from wiki....In Northern Italy's political struggle between Guelphs and Ghibellines, Dante was part of the Guelphs, who in general favored the Papacy over the Holy Roman Emperor. Florence's Guelphs split into factions around 1300, the White Guelphs, and the Black Guelphs. Dante was among the White Guelphs who were exiled in 1302 by the Lord-Mayor Cante de' Gabrielli di Gubbio, after troops under Charles of Valois entered the city, at the request of Pope Boniface VIII, who supported the Black Guelphs. This exile, which lasted the rest of Dante's life, shows its influence in many parts of the Comedy, from prophecies of Dante's exile to Dante's views of politics to the eternal damnation of some of his opponents.
In Hell and Purgatory, Dante shares in the sin and the penitence respectively. The last word in each of the three parts of the Divine Comedy is stelle, "stars."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Divine_Comedy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guelphs_and_Ghibellines
http://www.the-orb.net/encyclop/culture ... _b_hol.htm

Ya know Renne, ya gotta keep in mind, Dante lost out on lots of patronage by getting slam dunked like he did. The folks who had the money to pay guys like him to write fanciful tales to enhance the status or stature of the person who paid for that privilege, its easy to see how it was pay back time for those who turned their backs on him.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_did_Dante_write

I wouldn't put too much emphasis on a pissed off layman's take on a religious theme. He felt he had a lot to be bitter about. Most likely something along the lines of damn them all, no?

Hey Renne, not to sound too facetious, but how come toilets + toilet seats have a 'portal' shape 'boot them? They serve as a entrance point to a necropolis, yes? I mean gazillions of rats world wide thrive on that shit.

A Chalice which was rescued after Hurricane Katrina.

Re: The Christa - It seems that a gold and jeweled object of religious significance would be a great comfort to a religious dying person. The idea that it was a key is interesting, the key to the portal to the next world. Some esoteric groups have mysterious "key" - words to use in this same situation. These words which are taught to initiates are spoken to the guardians of the portal/door to allow entry to the dying person`s spirit. The Egyptian and Tibetan Books of the Dead contain such key-words. These books were very populatr in the 1960s and were used by experiencers who were undergoing psychic death.

(Jake please try to refrain from being crude, it is not at all appreciated.)

Lord R is transubstantiated. He doesn't need to substantiate anything he says.