Arcadia Discussion Zone

Rennes-le-Chateau is the Real Deal - Part 2

Hi my name is Paul, and I'm a Rennes-le-holic.

I caught this affliction many years ago. Let me tell you how.

When I was a teenager, over 35 years ago, I picked up a book called City of Revelation by John Michell.

He was talking about the dimensions of ancient monuments like Stonehenge and how they related to the theoretical dimensions of the New Jerusalem as described in the Book of Reveleations. He describe this as a squared circle.

I was living in Christchurch in New Zealand at the time and I was stunned to read that there was an ancient landscape arrangement based on these dimensions, centred on the meeting point of the English counties of Hereford, Worcester and Gloucester.

Now three of the main streets of Christchurch, running through the central city, are Hereford Street, Worcester Street, and Gloucester Street.

At the centre of the city is a square containing the cathedral, around which runs a circular road.

I realised that the city of Christchurch, construction of which commenced in 1850 was built to an esoteric plan.

This should not come as too much of a surprise. It was the intention of The Freemasons to rebuild The Temple, and the senior surveyors architects and engineers in those times would have all been Masons. However this was must have been fully institutionalised, because Christchurch was built under the auspices of the British government and the Church of England.

Later when I lived in Melbourne Australia I found a similar arrangement there, construction of which continued into the 1930's.

There are rumours of similar layouts in many places, including Washington DC, and London. I think many cities laid out to a grid design, particularly those founded by the British government in their colonial phase, might incorporate this type of esoteric plan.

What did it mean? What was the motivation of the builders? I had found a clue that I attempted to follow. However I was following a butterfly into a labyrinth.

What I did discover was something of the layout of these designs, and I did continue to investigate.

When Henry Lincoln bought out The Holy Place I wondered whether the geometry I'd found might be involved at Rennes-le-Chateau and I ordered the IGN maps around 1991. The first weekend I got the maps I found the geometric designs I discussed in the first part of this thread.

This is because I knew what to look for. Working out the Star Map took considerably longer.

Now some people will say that I imposed my wished for design on the landscape like a Rorschach Blot.

However when you examine the IGN's and the design, IT IS THERE. I will dispute with anyone who steps into the ring the fact that the design is there.

I have been sitting on this for 18 years, because I could not fully explain how it got there, and what it meant. I also have a life, a family, a business, and this affliction can be awfully time consuming.

When Erling Haagensen began to publish his results from Bornholm, I knew he had found another one, and I corresponded with him and suggest that the unit of measure would be the chain of 66 feet. This proved to be correct, and I could see the similarity between the designs. However Erling was intent on his own very detailed investigations and I left him to it.

The Bornholm connection still didn't get me out of the labyrinth, and I put the whole investigation away. I was too busy, and I was at a dead end. Then last year, by chance, I read that the Burgundians who feature in the Nibelungenlied and Ring of the Nibelungs are from Bornholm.

So now Rennes-le-Chateau has got me again. But this time I'm going to beat it.

A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum

Friends, Romans, Countrymen ...

No, seriously folks, the reason I've joined this forum is because there are experts here, and I can see some of the French experts also are reading, if not participating. I need to correspond with some of you to check my facts, to run theories by, just to talk about this thing.

Rennes-le-Chateau is the real deal. It is bigger than the hypothesis of Holy Blood, Holy Grail. It is bigger than Texas.

It would be great to have some rational discussions here, without flaming, without thread hijacking, without personal attacks, and to keep things at the sort of reasonable level they would be if we were all sitting around a table in one of our own homes, breaking bread.

Is that possible here?

Burgundians from Bornholm

Hi Roger

Can you explain why you disagree with Wikipedia and Viktor Rydberg in the following article?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgundians

I brought this up before with nary an explanation. Since there is no concensus on what a Grail is, since it has been spun into a myriad of theories, what is the basis for ya stating the Grail is in RLC?

I checked yer website and found nothing there to answer this question. A natural bowl-like configuration of mountains is not zakly a drinking cup, yes? Even if the folks who set it up were the giant nephilim of OT they still wouldn't use the entire landscape to drink a toast.

There has to be a more realistic notion, Yes. The medieval tales of 'kniggets' to paraphrase Monte Python had a sort of an idea, but were not sure precisely. So how come his cup containing blood of Jesus has taken on all the spins it has today.

That's tantamount to saying there never was a Grail to search for to start with.

Just keep writing and sharing. One day at a time. Lori

I'm in agreement Ivaldi
I believe its a huge interweaving vine that crisscrosses history,art, religion, and politics

Ivaldi wrote:


Ah.. Marvellous Melbourne.

The Melbourne Observatory in the King's Domain wouldn't have been one of the points on that arrangement would it, Ivaldi?

See: http://www.melbourneobservatory.com/19thCentury.htm

Regards to all

Wombat.

Quick Replies

Roger: So you are the arch-sceptic, deny, deny, deny (to paraphrase Suze Orman on CNBC). That's cool we need sceptics. Your opinion is noted.

MT GRAVES: Oh yes, there was/is a Grail. Sorry I just haven't got there yet with the whole Grail explanation, probably a week away from getting all the Second Chapter up on the site, however have just added another page, see http://www.theholygrail.com/011.html

Louvian: Yes, its a huge interweaving vine that crisscrosses history,art, religion, and politics. Alan Watts said that no ones mouth is big enough to utter the whole thing.

Lori: Thanks for the encouragement yet again.

Wombat: Yes, Marvelous Melbourne, I will message you the key.

Berenger Sauniere

Has anyone ever done Sauniere's geneology?

Did you know that his name combines that of two great Goth Father and Son leaders in the Catalan Region?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunyer_I_of_Emp%C3%BAries
Sunyer I was count of Empúries and Roussillon (with the pagus of Perelada) from 834 to 841. He was the son of Count Belló I of Carcassonne (The Goth who founded the Bellonid dynasty that ruled Barcelona for hundreds of years).

Sunyer I was deposed in 841 due to a new policy of the Frankish Emperor, he died in 848. His eldest son, Sunyer II, was later a count of Ampurias (with Perelada) and Roussillon and another son, Delà, an associate count of his brother. His father was Berenger the Wise. The name Sunyers is also spelled Suniaire.

So, Goths continued to rule in the region for hundreds of years after the Visigoths.

Alet les Bains Cathedral, strange history

Does anyone have a definative foundation date for the Cathedral at Alet. No its not 813, see:
http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/th/rea ... 0849206981

On the subject has anyone ever compiled a list of the foundation dates of some of/all the churches in the vicinity of RLC?

Also does anyone have further biographical details of Pons Amiel, (Pons Amelius) the Abbe of Alet-les-Bains 1167-1197. I'd like to know which noble family he was from, and which local lord appointed him.

Also interested in his successor after a couple of years, Boson (Boso). Clearly Boso was a Cathar, as he was appointed by a notorious Cathar.

Ther ain't no Grail nor never was. Once there was some earthenware cup used at the Last Supper the common kind of thing used in that place in those times. It eventually got dropped and broke like household crocks do. Swept out with the rubbush - gorn. That's it really. There's a lot of fanciful literature from the Middle Ages great works of the imagination just like the whole Rennes le Chateau saga the most successful hoax in history.

Grail must be real, mentioned in Necronomicon & Castillion Diary

I'm sure you're aware that Emma Calve was a member of the esoteric society A.A. which also included Aliester Crowley and Berenger Sauniere. They spirited the Grail to America on the French Line steamship La Touraine from Havre, arriving 22 January 1904 in New York, under cover of a plan for Calve to perform Kundry in Wagner's Parsifal in America.

They needed to get the grail to America to perform the unspeakable rite from the Necronomicon that specifically required the grail to resurrect the Old One. This had to be performed in the Kester Library in Salem at midnight. The grail was then placed at the bottom of the Oak Island money pit by telekinesis. The Old One, that rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouched towards Bethlehem to be born, as George Bush Senior's greatgrandfather.

This is all encoded on page 13, paragraph 22 of the Castillion Diary, under a microdot, that can only be read by using the 3D glasses distributed with the movie Flesh for Frankenstein. The Old One became quite famous in Hollywood in its later years, appearing as the Man in the Planet in David Lynch's Eraserhead.

Deny, Deny Deny
Hey Roger, I wasn't trying to be nasty, that was actually my artrocious sense of humour. I actually like your critiques, they helped me to get it clear in my head recently about the precence of the Templars NEAR Rennes-le-Chateau.

is it just me...
or have you changed some? your manner of speech has changed.
hmmm...
maybe i am being over-reactive...

Ivaldi sez...Grail must be real, mentioned in Necronomicon & Castillion Diary

I'm sure you're aware that Emma Calve was a member of the esoteric society A.A. which also included Aliester Crowley and Berenger Sauniere. They spirited the Grail to America on the French Line steamship La Touraine from Havre, arriving 22 January 1904 in New York, under cover of a plan for Calve to perform Kundry in Wagner's Parsifal in America.

They needed to get the grail to America to perform the unspeakable rite from the Necronomicon that specifically required the grail to resurrect the Old One. This had to be performed in the Kester Library in Salem at midnight. The grail was then placed at the bottom of the Oak Island money pit by telekinesis. The Old One, that rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouched towards Bethlehem to be born, as George Bush Senior's greatgrandfather.

This is all encoded on page 13, paragraph 22 of the Castillion Diary, under a microdot, that can only be read by using the 3D glasses distributed with the movie Flesh for Frankenstein. The Old One became quite famous in Hollywood in its later years, appearing as the Man in the Planet in David Lynch's Eraserhead.

Y0 Ivaldi, shouldn't that secret society be Alcholics Unanimous, or maybe an additional letter 'A' is missing so that it would read...arm all arabs...

Yer stab at lampoonery was not bad at all. It tells me ya read ole jake on a regular basis, hehehe. Now, back to being on topic.

The Grail was a nifty way of brainwashing folk to accept feudalism as being Divine Sanctioned, yes? The folk who perp'd this Grail stuff were the property'd class, yes? Since the Miracle Play traveling theater was in its fledgling years, what better theme to entrance the masses. The Rosicru krew really went all out to supply it with loads of superstitious arcana. They could and did spin it every way but loose.

I have yet to come cross a pimp, er ah, a writer paid for by this property'd class to crank out the lore that reinforced this Grail biz, who admitted he was pandering to these patrons. I see it as what passes for all things esoteric on the 'Net today. A roaming troubadour who went from estate to estate to put on his 1-act pony show, stuff his face, then move on.

It made for a pleasant pastime for the moneyed class, yes? They could use it as a vehicle to indulge in their real interests of a more satanic-alchemic nature in the guise of esoterica, otherwise, how do ya explain all the satanical symbols found in the Rosicru screed?

The Grail is Real, Jim, but not as we know it

Hey MT GRAVES, I's a thinkin youse bin doin some leg pullin here on this here forum.

That aside I agree with your analysis about the genuineness of the whole holy grail, cup from which Jesus drank, blood was caught, blood line was continued blah, blah, blah. Fabrications one and all no doubt, and if you want to know why, just follow the money.

HOWEVER Chretien de Troyes and Wolfram von Eschenbach were no more 1 trick pony's than Homer and Apollonius of Rhodes. Give any author or actor their crack at immortality and they're going to show you what they got, and be hanging around the wings waiting for the curtain call, and the groupies at the stage door.

I think they were rooting for the Underdog, not Boss Hog.

Click here for some sacred geometry At a place where three track ways meet.

The Bornholm connection?

What do the words Et Le Cromleck de Rennes-Les-Bains Mean Roger?

There are approximately 4500 megaliths in France alone. They are all over Galacia, Spain where the bagpipes were invented (there's a clue). They are in Turkey (Phrygia) and get this

They are also in Israel. Jacob (Israel) slept on one, I think they're awesome too. In fact Pythagoras spent a lot of time on Mount Carmel.

But County Kerry in Western Ireland has the largest concentration of megaliths.

They are also all over Bornholm.

But we don't know who placed these there (how could they? The Roman church, who apparantly had a hotline to God, told us that they were far too primitive) so I presume your summing up will be that they don't exist and they are an illusion. Tell you what, lets not discuss them at all ay?

Yes we're well aware of the "If we can't explain them they don't exist" gambit.

But if you want to try to know then try googling on the phrase

Grooved Ware People

Here's one for you Roger



Where was Jesus when the people who made this needed saving? It's near Wayland Smithy where you'll find a long Barrow that's crucifix shaped

I personally would like to think this as a reindeer not a horse. They covered Europe during L'Age du Renne a period also known as the Magdalenian Period.

Reindeer and megaliths all over Europe? That's just plain silly ay Roger? It can't be therefore it isn't ay Roger?

By the way the date assigned to the megaliths at Haran (you know where Jacob had a kip) is 11000 years old.

Quickly, into the Tardis ...
(For our colleagues who do not get the BBC, the Tardis is the Time Machine of Doctor Who, the Time Lord)

Queue synthesiser sounds, strange noises like elephants trumpeting
We've gone back in time, and yes, its 1200 AD, and we're in Rennes-le-Chateau!
What are we going to find here?

I'd like to build as accurate a picture as possible, please help with your contributions or criticisms.

1) The local cathedral at Alet-les-Bains is under control of of the Cathar Abbe Boson
2) There is a Templar encampment at Campagne Sur Aude reporting to the preceptory at Douzens
3) Esperaza is a Templar economic centre, they own the mill there, part of their chain of mills along the Aude
4) The local Lords are the Trencavels, Viscounts of Carcassonne and Razes (The upper Aude valley)
5) The Trencavels are vassals to the Gothic Crown of Aragon
6) The Crown of Aragon includes the Counties of Barcelona and Catalonia
7) The above nobility are all Cathar sympathisers and descendants from Goths

Does anyone have any idea what the population base is of likely to be of the Razes, say an area of 20km radius from RLC?

Templar Mill at Esperaza, part of complex of 15 Mills, mainly on the Aude
Hi Roger

My source is
The world of Eleanor of Aquitaine: literature and society in southern France
TEMPLARS - ESPERAZA

Goes on to discuss the economic holding at Esperaza, other economic activities including fish in the mill ponds, vines at Esperaza, the transaction where the Honour of Esperaza was sold to a prospective recruit into the Order for the large sum of 1000 solidi etc

Referring to a post of Roger above. As a matter of interest who is the "Debunker in Chief"? Of course one has to accept that any theory propounded here is almost certainly going to be branded "Hare-brained" by Roger. I say this whilst recognizing of course that when it comes to knowledge of medieval Languedoc Roger stands head and shoulders above the rest of us. There I actually said that without feeling any pain.

The area was infested with monastic establishments

Hi Roger

May I ask what you mean by the above comment? Are you talking about Cathar monastic establishments, or the traditional monastic establishments of the Church?

I'll only do it privately, because I firmly believe that educating the "RLC crowd" on the Order is quite dangerous. The more actual information they learn, the more elaborately credible their frauds will be. If the knowledge is somewhat restricted, then the frauds are much easier to spot.

WOW only do it privately eh. You going to send it in a plain brown wrapper Rog. Cripes - paranoia is rife in the Forum. It'll be mass hysteria next.

Oh dear Rog. how cutting you can be. Bernard de Blanchefort I'm sure he must have kept one.

Thanks but no thanks

Thank you Roger for your offer of a private audience, however I cannot accept.

The truth on all this will out, and the only way we're going to get to the bottom of it is to put every bit of information into the public arena and sort through it all until the best hypothesis wins.


YES, Esperaza was a Templar economic centre, they owned the mill and farm there of which they later sold the "honour" to prospective recruit Bernard Sesmon for 1000 gold solidi. Esperaza was adjacent to Campagne sur Aude where Roger I Travencal earlier had gifted the entire village, all inhabitants and progeny, mills and fisheries. However the Templars had to buy out the mortgage from the same Bernard Sesmon mentioned above for 3000 gold solidi. and YES there was a complex of Templar mills along the Aude. They did not own every mill, maybe only 10% of those on the Aude, but that is still a significant holding.


The world of Eleanor of Aquitaine: literature and society in southern France