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PostPosted: 13 Apr 2009 10:15 pm 
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Roger wrote:
TCP wrote:
bergeredearcadie wrote:
Hi TCP

Am reading that book you recommended ...


Good! Have you got to the part about St. Vincent and the ravens?

TCP


Is this what you're referring to?

Image

The lighthouse built on the old monastery at Cabo Sao Vicente, is a welcome sight to yachtsmen to this day, and sailors still claim to see ravens (I never saw any, though).


Well, not specifically, no. I meant the part about how the ships without oars, rudders or sails carrying saints (or their corpses) was a familiar them in pre-Christian Celtic myth put to effective use later in Christian hagiographies.

TCP


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PostPosted: 18 Apr 2009 8:01 am 
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Roger wrote:
Updated article on SP website, with additional photos, one purporting to be of "le Grand Testament des Perillos".. Not sure what the latter means, but you can see it all there:

http://www.societe-perillos.com/courtade_1.html


Very interesting : i think this is the first time this "Parchemin" is presented to be the "Big Perillos' Testament".

So, the 1632 Courtade Register and the 1624 Courtade Register are not what they were claimed to be. And now, we have this piece of Parchemin.
As usual, not possible to read, at least, what is on the cover.

We just have to believe the sincerity of Mr Douzet...


Last edited by Pascal on 18 Apr 2009 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 18 Apr 2009 4:05 pm 
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Roger wrote:
Have there been prior references to the "Parchemin" that turns out to be a Perillos will and testament? I don't recall ever seeing that document before?


Well, maybe i'm confused, but if i remember well, Douzet has always talked about Courtade 1632, Courtade 1624 and "a Cherry on the Cake" the Parchemin. But i think, this is the first time it is clearly and fermely said that the "Grand Testament des Périllos" is this Parchemin.

But his explanations are so confusing than now i'm not sure of anything and, please, excuse me if i'm wrong in this statement.

By the way, i have updated the Courtade 1632 with its summaries (called "annexes"). Now the access is completely free (www.opoul.com).

Pascal


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PostPosted: 18 Apr 2009 11:34 pm 
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Has anyone got any idea what the sign in the centre of the document is?

Something similar has come up several times before in the forum and also in my own research.

For instance, on this document is it a mark made simply the person is illiterate or does it have a definite meaning?

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PostPosted: 19 Apr 2009 5:41 am 
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RenaissanceMan wrote:
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Has anyone got any idea what the sign in the centre of the document is?

Something similar has come up several times before in the forum and also in my own research.

For instance, on this document is it a mark made simply the person is illiterate or does it have a definite meaning?


There are three marks and three signatures following the entry, one of them Courtade's, the others for people named Cazelet and Besombat(h) (can't tell for certain on the spelling of this last, as the man's name is spelled differently in the text of the entry). The other three would appear to be marks made by illiterates - one who could at least sign his initials.

TCP


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PostPosted: 19 Apr 2009 10:37 am 
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RenaissanceMan wrote:
For instance, on this document is it a mark made simply the person is illiterate or does it have a definite meaning?


Hi,

As you said, it was usual for illiterate person to sign with a symbol instead of his family name. In the Courtade 1632, it happens often that people draws a symbol and the notary adds beside the real name.

You have other samples here :
- http://www.opoul.com/courtade/057.html
- http://www.opoul.com/courtade/081.html

About this specific symbol you showed, it is from page 94b (back of the 94) of the same register.

pascal


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PostPosted: 19 Apr 2009 7:57 pm 
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Thanks TCP and Pascal,

Yes, that seemed like it was going to be the answer.
It just looked very well drawn for someone who is not used to handling a pen.

Roger, have you considered changing your name to a brand of dog food? You must have some good ones in the states. Theres one over here you'd love ... Winalot. Don't know what your free-lunching friend would think of it though. :?

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 Post subject: I think
PostPosted: 19 Apr 2009 9:49 pm 
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that it has special meaning

wasn't it on the parchment Ben found too the one in the glass vial with the cup and chest

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 20 Apr 2009 6:34 am 
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RenaissanceMan wrote:
It just looked very well drawn for someone who is not used to handling a pen.


Some Painters and sculptors (not sure of this word) were used to draw and were not all literate...

Here is the english version of the Courtade "Debate" in SP (i would use another word but i self-control my "Tourette-like" attitude)...

http://perillos.com/courtade.html

Nice very nice...
Pascal


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PostPosted: 20 Apr 2009 9:28 pm 
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Roger wrote:
Well! This shows once again you should never count a good man down! Once you get past the appallingly despicable English (I guess Coppens wasn't around to assist his SP boss, for some reason or other), there's an enormous amount of new information there for "armchair researchers" such as myself.


You give Andre far too much credit, Roger. Though clearly not written by a native speaker of English, it was still far beyond Andre's capacity.

Quote:
For one thing, I had absolutely no idea that, in addition to ministering to the needs of his Seigneuresse, Mme d'Hautpoul, as well as caring for the souls of his Rennes le Chateau parishioners, Bigou was also responsible for shepherding the parishioners of Perillos towards their heavenly salvation.


In two different dioceses, no less.

Quote:
I can see the dear man now, the words ite missa est barely out of his mouth, barreling through the pews still filled with his adoring congregation, and bursting out the doors of Ste Marie-Madeleine of RLC, to vault on his trusty mule, still clad in his celebrant's vestments, to take off at a scorching gallop for St Michel de Perillos, where his other congregation was waiting patiently for his inspirational sermon...


Probably delivered the following day!

Quote:
I also have to admire this unsung bureaucrat who, with a Cassandra-like eye on the future, took on the task of collecting land ownership information, persuasively obtaining the cooperation of everyone outside his jurisdiction, so that over 25 years later another unsung (and un-named) notary could present the King with a full accounting for all the newly acquired lands. Gotta love that Courtade and offer him up as an example to today's listless bureaucrats!


Ah, but then Monsieur Douzet contradicts himself with this small admission:

The “Courtade document” lists all the ground directly attached to this stronghold and the owners of the rights to which the belongings are registered. The work of Courtade did not concern judicial rights, nor tax or administrative affairs. It is furthermore evident that the essential documents concerning property or family acts were of no concern to this census, but were solely focused on what we today would call “cadastral acts”.

Cadastral records not concerning jurisprudence, administration or taxation? What does he think they're for, decoration? How many maps are drawn in Courtade's register?

Quote:
But then again, as so duly noted by Monsieur Douzet, the Spanish do have a great ability and efficiency with archives and their preservation. So perhaps "armchair researchers" might take advantage of this and discover what the notarial activities were on the Spanish side of the border back in those pre-treaty years. Similarly, they might be able to find a lot of Perillos "last wills and testaments". One will await with great eagerness the presentation of the pictured documents at the promised conference, because they certainly will say the very same things that the Spanish archives do, surely.


Ah, but again, Mr. Douzet says not to bother with archives, because:

Nowadays, it is very difficult to get copies of original peerage books, heraldic and family documents of the families that made their history in the old country of the Catalan Roussillon. These originals did not so much get lost, as they were put in safety in Spanish Catalonia before the annexation to France. Many still remain there and can be consulted. The bits of family archives of the old Catalan sectors of Opoul, Perillos, Vingrau and Rivesaltes (to quote only those) are in the hands of their descendants living in the area of Sabadell (province of Barcelona)… the sector where the last priest of Perillos before the French Revolution went into exile: Bigou.

So don't bother with consulting French or Spanish archives if you're looking for peerage books, heraldic, or family records for the grandeza in and around Perillos, because their descendants in Sabadell have all those records. Funny, he used to claim his old neighbors in Durban had all those records - have they relocated? So I guess we should simply discount the hordes of archival material in both France and Spain that is publically accessible to any researcher, because it all must be erroneous and exists for no other reason than to purposely obscure Mr. Douzet's "truth" - as only he knows who has those records...

He'd have to know where members of the Perillos family were domiciled in order to find their archived testaments - and as far as he's concerned, they all must have lived in that tiny little tower keep in Perillos itself. He hasn't a clue who they were or where they lived, and what's more has never shown the slightest interest in finding out. In fact, when his associate Coppens tried to hook me up with him years ago, Douzet was horrified that I had actual genealogical information and refused to have anything to do with me. It didn't take me long to understand that verifiable information was harmful to Douzet's purpose.

He just keeps digging that hole deeper and deeper.

TCP


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PostPosted: 20 Apr 2009 9:44 pm 
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Who was this? He signed in blood. Are you sure this isn't from "the old country" (Romania)? This person uses the same sign as in the sion symbol at the bottom of Parchment 2. This proves that the PS existed in 1632. It's Grandmaster, Balthazar, signed the register himself, thus losing his very soul. He didn't mind much, he figured he had already lost that years ago... that moonlit night. The sting of the fangs still fresh in his mind. Why did it have to be her? Anyone but her. He drew his black cloak around himself until only his ember-like red eyes were visible. It would be a cold night, and probably a long one, for this night he must feed.

Image


Last edited by jb1717 on 20 Apr 2009 10:12 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 20 Apr 2009 9:48 pm 
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Didnt Douzet intimate he had added things to some of the pages??? :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: 20 Apr 2009 10:01 pm 
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bergeredearcadie wrote:
Didnt Douzet intimate he had added things to some of the pages??? :lol: :lol: :lol:


Like adding the word "Perillos" several times, perhaps?

TCP


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PostPosted: 20 Apr 2009 10:04 pm 
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jb1717 wrote:
Who was this? He signed in blood. Are you sure this isn't from "the old country" (Romania)? This person uses the same sign as in the sion symbol at the bottom of Parchment 2.

Image


That blood looks to have a lot of oxygen left in it for being nearly four hundred years old.

TCP


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 20 Apr 2009 10:36 pm 
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jb1717 wrote:
This person uses the same sign as in the sion symbol at the bottom of Parchment 2. This proves that the PS existed in 1632.

Image


Which means David Aarinovitch must be over 377 years old :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2009 11:54 am 
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See how similar?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2009 11:59 am 
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no, not at all ....

This Forum has gone bonkers .....

What are we gonna do to save it? :lol:


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PostPosted: 21 Apr 2009 9:58 pm 
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So Sandy and Roger can't detect any similarity between those two blooming crosses? Interesting. And when I say "blooming", I'm not speaking British. I mean a live branch sprouting from the stem.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 22 Apr 2009 6:30 am 
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This post has been removed by the Moderator, who judged it to have broken the House Rules.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 22 Apr 2009 2:57 pm 
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bergeredearcadie wrote:
This Forum has gone bonkers .....

What are we gonna do to save it? :lol:

Yes, that's the question - and even if it's possible to do so ... :cry: :cry: :(


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PostPosted: 22 Apr 2009 10:46 pm 
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bergeredearcadie wrote:
no, not at all ....

This Forum has gone bonkers .....

What are we gonna do to save it? :lol:


Who ya gonna call ?......


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 23 Apr 2009 1:56 am 
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Pilrig wrote:
bergeredearcadie wrote:
no, not at all ....

This Forum has gone bonkers .....

What are we gonna do to save it? :lol:


Who ya gonna call ?......


Edgar Winter. "Who's gonna save the planet?"


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 23 Apr 2009 3:47 pm 
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Roger wrote:
Quote:
"Who's gonna save the planet?"


We are, because remember...

"We Built This City On Rock N Roll"

(Jefferson Starship)

:? I never liked this one. And it is not because that guy from Vienna (Peter Wolf) composed it ... (and who has been much better whilst playing with Jay Geil or with Gypsy Love and Charly Ratzer in the early years).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 23 Apr 2009 10:12 pm 
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Re Starship go back to the original Paul Kantner album Blows against the Empire. That wasn't about saving the planet but fleeing from it. Same goes for the song Kantner co-wrote with Crosby and Stills - Wooden Ships.


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