Arcadia Discussion Zone

Well I'm looking for input on the story of the Acadians being kicked out of Nova Scotia by the Brits after the French Indian Wars

I have been following their their settlements in New Orleans and Saint Louis as well as other places like Saint Genevieve

it seems they took their myths and legends with them but one wonders did they take anything else?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article393609.ece?token=null&offset=12

I have found connections to the Scottish Rite Freemasons Roisicrucians and I found a winged serpent with a PS engraved in a altar stone


I have connected the winged serpent with the apprentice pillar at Rossalyn Chapel where the Holy Grail is said to be buried so the legend goes

I guess the theory is that the Templars landed in America earlier than thought

I old is the Money Pit? does it correlate to the time of the Bruce in Scotland the one who was excommunicated?

Another thought is if the English stole this prize and buried at Shurburgh Hall then obviously it wasn't buried in the money pit

One wonders if anything else was brought here

and one more thing
Louis Buff Parry, a Canadian writer is he a reliable source your opinions

lovuian,



There are many legends connecting Oak Island with almost every lost treasure or mystery in the world. The Holy Grail legend is near the very top. There are certainly theories that suggest the Acadiens buried a treasure under Oak Island or had a mine there. Problem is, there are no valuable minerals on Oak Island to mine. Legends supporting possible Acadien participation fall apart really quickly, very little supporting evidence.



That is a difficult question to answer with certainty. Carbon dating of some wood from a very deep hole on the island seems to place a date of 1575 give or take 85 years. The treasure hunters drilled through the overburden to bedrock, then drilled another 30 - 40 feet only to discover they drilled through what appeared to be a wooden obstruction (a roof?) covered with a putty. That is the wood that was carbon dated and offered the evidence placed before us. Other structures and samples that have been carbon dated seem to support the 16th century, but other results suggest a much later date.

So hear me out Tank on this
we have John Cabot landing in

On a second voyage Cabot again used only one ship with 18 crew, the Matthew, a small ship (50 tons), but fast and able. He departed on either May 2 or May 20, 1497 and sailed to Dursey Head (latitude 51°36N), Ireland. He landed on the coast of Newfoundland on June 24, 1497. His precise landing-place is a matter of controversy, with Bonavista or St. John's in Newfoundland, Cape Breton Island, Nova Scotia, Labrador, or Maine all being possibilities. Cape Bonavista, however, is the location recognised by the governments of Canada and the United Kingdom as being Cabot's official landing. His men may have been the first Europeans to set foot on the North American mainland since the Vikings. On the homeward voyage his sailors incorrectly thought they were going too far north, so Cabot sailed a more southerly course, reaching Brittany instead of England, and on August 6 arrived back in Bristol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giovanni_Caboto

then there was
Giovanni da Verrazzano in 1524.

two Italians and yet it turns up to be New Scotland

but the first to settle it was the French


In 1604, French colonists established the first permanent European settlement north of Florida at Port Royal, founding what would become known as Acadia.

and why is it called of all things Acadia

The origin of the designation Acadia is credited to the explorer Giovanni da Verrazzano, who on his sixteenth century map applied the ancient Greek name "Arcadia" to the entire Atlantic coast north of Virginia (note the inclusion of the 'r' of the original Greek name). "Arcadia" is a the name of a district in Greece which since classical antiquity has also had the extended meanings of "refuge" or "idyllic place". The Dictionary of Canadian Biography says: "Arcadia, the name Verrazzano gave to Maryland or Virginia 'on account of the beauty of the trees,' made its first cartographical appearance in the 1548 Gastaldo map and is the only name on that map to survive in Canadian usage. . . . In the 17th century Champlain fixed its present orthography, with the 'r' omitted, and Ganong has shown its gradual progress northwards, in a succession of maps, to its resting place in the Atlantic Provinces."

lovuian,

All great but tentative history, and therein lies the problem. Each person has a different interpretation and acceptance level with regard to post or even pre - Columbian history.

I always defer to poor old Napoleon Bonaparte, the great French General who is credited with saying, "what is history but a lie agreed upon."

Academics are loathe to accept much that us laymen (speaking for myself) tend to want to believe and that includes the alleged landing of Henry Sinclair here in Nova Scotia in 1398. Personally, after attending the Atlantic Conference in Halifax last August, I am more prone to accept that history than ever before.

Before Norwegian scholars Helge Ungstad and his wife Anne Stine Ingstad discovered L’Ance Au Meadows on the Northern Peninsula in Newfoundland, academics laughed at the mere suggestion the Vikings lived anywhere south of Greenland. I remain hopeful of more undeniable proof of many claims of pre - Columbian contact. Personally, I believe it is out there waiting to be discovered.

Maybe it remains somewhere under 200 feet of Oak Island’s rocky, glacial till.

wavelength

I think a person needs to follow the Truth where it leads them
and if they write a story song or a picture that tells that Truth

then the viewer or the listener will either see it or hear it

or not

I suspect that the name New Scotland was a reference to that fighting country for freedom away from the Vatican and from the Bruce who fought for freedom against britain and was excommunicated from the vatican

if there was a place for Templars to hide and their families to hide from the grasp of the brutal monarchy no wonder it was called Acadia

"refuge" or "idyllic place"

Early European colonists, who would later become known as Acadians, were French subjects primarily from the Pleumartin to Poitiers in the Vienne département of west-central France. The first French settlement was established by Pierre Dugua, Sieur de Monts, Governor of Acadia, under the authority of King Henry IV, on Saint Croix Island in 1604

It was all part of New France

Poitiers was founded by the Celtic Pictones tribe as the oppidum Lemonum before Roman influence. The name is said to have come from the Celtic word for elm, Lemo.

well in the
a huge dolmen (the Pierre Levée), which is 22 feet (6.7 m) long, 16 feet (4.9 m) broad and 7 feet (2.1 m) high, and around which used to be held the great fair of Saint Luke.

its also where the inquest of Joan of Arc happened

I'm on a quest Tank just like you are

lovuian,



Sorry, I don't follow.



I agree, problem is, there are different version of the truth and what is truth to one man is unsubstantiated, disconnected information to another. However, I do enjoy a good song, am always interested in a good story and as for pictures, they are worth a thousand words.



I suppose in an abstract sort of way, that is very true, I never really looked at it in that light before. I think the cautionary thing is that one should not allow a quest to become an obsession.

The Acadians (French: Acadiens) are the descendants of the seventeenth-century French colonists who settled in Acadia (located in the Canadian Maritime provinces — Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, and Prince Edward Island — and some in the American state of Maine). Although today most of the Acadians and Québécois are francophone Canadians, Acadia was founded in a geographically separate region from Quebec ("Canada" at this time) leading to their two distinct cultures. The settlers whose descendants became Acadians did not necessarily all come from the same region in France. Acadian family names have come from many areas in France from the Maillets of Paris to the Leblancs of Normandy. Acadian families originated from various regions in France; for example the popular Acadian surname 'Melanson' has its roots in Brittany, and those with the surname 'Bastarache', 'Basque', can find their origin in the Basque Country.

In the Great Expulsion of 1755, around 11,000 Acadians were deported from Acadia under the direction of British colonial officers and New England legislators and militia; many later settled in Louisiana, where they became known as Cajuns. Later on many Acadians returned to the Maritime provinces of Canada, most specifically New Brunswick. During the British conquest of New France the French colony of Acadia was renamed Nova Scotia (meaning New Scotland).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acadians

lovuian,

The first European Crown to possess Nova Scotia was Portugal via the 1494 Treaty of Tordesillas. It would appear by all accounts for the Spanish to have been satisfied will all lands south of the Penobscot River of Maine. The Spanish did not infringe upon the northern area of Portuguese control as it would have jeopardized the benefits gained by Spain under said Treaty.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tordesillas

Prior to Verrazano the coast from modern day Florida to the Penobscot River of Maine was known as Flora, and north of this, Terra de Cortes Real. Around the time of Verrazano the Spanish renamed the area between Florida to Massachusetts as Tiera de Allyon and between Tierra de Allyon and Terra de Cortes Real as Tierra de Estava Gomez. This is well drawn on the 1529 Ribero map.

The first Europeans who attempted to settle the general area were the Portuguese from the Azores.

João Álvares Fagundes in 1521...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo%C3%A3o_ ... s_Fagundes

and the family of Pineheiro de Barcelos at some point after 1508, but most certainly prior to 1532. The links to those documents have been previously provided in this forum.


The efforts of Champlain were not the first attempts by the French to colonize North America and Verrazano did not give the name of Arcadia as alternative history authors would have you think. While the name L'Arcadia does appear on maps, those maps are not of French origins and not from the time of Verrazano.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_col ... e_Americas

Several Canadian place names seen on the Gastaldo/Gastaldi of 1548 are still in use to this very day. Cape Breton, Cape Race, Bonivista, and Labrador are four.
http://www.helmink.com/Antique_Map_Gastaldi_Terra_Nova/

The name L'Arcadia appears to give way to Norumbega as one approaches the 1590s, especially in French maps; however, the Italian copy houses still like to use L'Arcadia as a smaller area within Norumbega. Ruscalli 1561 to Metellus 1597 are prime examples of Italian work. The Nicholas Vallard map of 1547 is without the L’Arcadia/ Acadia place name and considering he was a Dieppe cartographer, this exclusion appears as very suspicious.
Examine folio f9

http://dpg.lib.berkeley.edu/webdb/dsheh ... mber=HM+29

The authenticity of Verrazzano’s narrative and even trip has been in great doubt for well over 150 years.

http://books.google.ca/books?id=97IUAAA ... #PPA131,M1

Unfortunately the cottage industry of speculative alternative history has had some influence in the past 30 or so years and for which Oak Island has not been immune. Stepping away from the paperback fiction shows many assertions and supposed links to the area’s early European history are without merit.

Here's Mahone Bay. The LaHave River was known as Rio Lamado in those days. Too bad they changed it.

R de gamas is modern day Penobscot River and is a consistent cartographic feature and name place between 1529 to the 1580s.

http://www.bairnet.org/potw/gomez99/gomez.htm

I see what you mean. Too long and thin at the top to be Mahone Bay anyway. Here's the real Mahone Bay.

Question:

What do those two red dots represent?

On second thought, never mind - I was looking at the map the wrong way.

Those two red dots are supposed to represent islands.

Nicholas Vallard attempted to create a chart based upon the Portuguese Portolano style is weak. The latitudes are well off from actual, and well off from contemporary charts of the day. The is most evident as one moves south and away from the Gulf of St. Lawrence, which is where the French from Dieppe would have had much better cartographic knowledge. I find his chart and place names are only copies of Spanish and Portuguese names thus the map cannot be of original work or unique knowledge.

We can see in the remainder of the folio, especially the Fareast, for the cartography to be exact copies of Portuguese and Spanish sources.

Is that bay Mahone Bay? Unfortunately this map is just too inaccurate in latitude and costal detail in this location to make a definitive or positive identification. Vallard is missing Rio Fundo (Bay of Fundy) place name which would narrow down the location of Mahone Bay.

lovuian,

The original New Scotland consisted of modern day NS, NB, PEI, the Gaspe and Anticosti Island. It was divided into two provinces. The Province of New Caledonia and the Province of Alexandria. NS was the Province of New Caledonia.

Hi,

Not only islands, but may I say islands which the Portuguese deemed important as well. Is that true?

MI

Are you all saying this is false because many sources say its true?

Hi Miss Indy



But I do understand that Portugal did it first

I see this was in the early 1500's sorry just got that from wikipedia
your sources look great

It's true that the French were expelled, but it has no relation to oak island. The French didn't live in that part of the province. They were on the other side, along the Fundy coast. When they left, all they had time to do was put their treasures in pottery vessels and bury them a few feet below ground. Some came back for them later and others just forgot about them and they were found by later settlers.

While it's true that a fragment of parchment was recovered from the OI treasure pit with the French word "vi" on it, it probably didn't come from the Acadians, in my opinion, but from a much earlier time.

I just wanted to make sure

Acadia (in the French language Acadie) was the name given to lands in a portion of the French colonial empire in northeastern North America that included parts of eastern Quebec, the Maritime provinces, and modern-day New England, stretching as far south as Philadelphia.

The actual specification by the French government for the territory refers to lands bordering the Atlantic coast, roughly between the 40th and 46th parallels. Later, the territory was divided into the British colonies which became Canadian provinces and American states.

Today, Acadia has been used to refer to regions of Atlantic Canada with French roots, language, and culture, primarily in New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Maine and Prince Edward Island.[1] In the abstract, Acadia refers to the existence of a French culture on Canada’s east coast.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acadia

The Maritime provinces, also called the Maritimes or the Canadian Maritimes, is a region of Eastern Canada consisting of three provinces: New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, and Prince Edward Island. On the Atlantic coast, the Maritimes are a subregion of Atlantic Canada.

there were also the

Míkmaq of Nova Scotia, Miigmaq (Miigmao) by the Míkmaq of New Brunswick, Mi’gmaq by the Listuguj Council in Quebec, or Mìgmaq (Mìgmaw) in some native literature,[1] are a First Nations (Native American) people, indigenous to northeastern New England, Canada's Atlantic Provinces, and the Gaspé Peninsula of Quebec.

I love their flag it is the red cross on white with a star and crescent moon
too cool

The French had a prescence and Indian allies
I see Magdalena Islands up there too

lovuian,



They sure did and contrary to a past comment they WERE on this (south shore of Nova Scotia) side of the Province too. Not near as many mind you and not just the Valley region as is popularly, and incorrectly thought.

The French had a really good relationship with the Mi’Kmaq (many other Canadian tribes as well) and their allegiances bore them through many a hardship early on. Generally speaking, the English explorers did not enjoy such a relationship and often treated them with disdain thus compounding their problems.

If you accept the voyages of Henry Sinclair as being true, they also enjoyed a really good relationship with the native peoples of this region that continues to this very day, a strong bond has been created and maintained.

Just for the record, the piece of parchment found on Oak Island was never attributed as being "French" by credible Oak Island researchers. In fact, the two letters that seem to be represented on that item are not attributed to any particular language at this time. Many believe it is English, but that is pure speculation.

here is the Natives Flag






In Louisiana home of the Cajuns this is on the stainglass window




what does the Native flag mean

The Míkmaq National flag has three colors, white, red, and blue, signifying the three divine persons, The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. The cross signifies Christ who was crucified on the Cross.

The letters: N,A,M,T are very significant:
N - Nin (I or Me)
A - Alasotmoinoi (being a Catholic)
M - Mento (gisna gil mention (devil))
T - Tooe ot Tooa (get out - go out)

Nin Alasotmoinoi gil Mento Tooe (I am a Catholic, you are a devil, get out)
SA - means Saint Anne (Patron Saint of the Mííkmaq since 1730).
MIGMAG - Mííkmaq (The Allies)
LNOG - L'núúk (The People)

The flag was first raised in Listukujk (Listuguj, P.Q.) on October 4, 1900 and in Kjipuktuk (Halifax, N.S.) in 1901.

2
Commonly refered to as the Santéé Mawióómi flag or the Grand Council flag.

The meaning of the Mííkmaq Nation Flag:
Wapéék (White) - Denotes the purity of Creation
Mekwéék Klujjewey (Red Cross) - Represents mankind and infinity (four directions)
Náákúúset (Sun) - Forces of the day
Tepkunaset (Moon) - Forces of the night

http://www.danielnpaul.com/Mi%27kmaqFlags.html

I'm fascinated at why of all the flags they took that one with the red cross on white
Any thoughts Tank or others?

lovuian,



Well, I have to admit, I am woefully undereducated in their ways. We have Mi’Kmaq reserves very close by and last year, I tried to include some of their ways in our annual event, Explore Oak Island Days, but it just didn’t pan out. My greatest exposu4re to native beliefs and practices came last year when I attended a conference in Halifax, called The Atlantic Conference. Read more here: http://www.atlanticconference.org/

I note you have visited Dr. Paul’s web page, a great idea. I have spoken with him on the phone and he is a very knowledgeable , better yet, approachable. Why not ask him?

You know I might just do that Tank

here is Montreal's flag


thats a Lancaster rose too

Actually there were French near Oak Island. I forgot such places as LaHave River, about 15 miles away.

there is a devil in the Indian Motto

Nin Alasotmoinoi gil Mento Tooe (I am a Catholic, you are a devil, get out)

and Saint Anne is there Patron saint since 1730

saint Ann street is right outside the New Orleans Cathedral




She is up there over the altar and I'm not sure who she is
I sometimes wonder if she is Saint Anne

Saint Anne had the Davidic bloodline


there are a few questions I would ask him Tank http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Anne

lovuian,

The expulsion was well recorded in Halifax with volumes of original documents held at the Public Archives of Nova Scotia. Additionally, many official letter books still survive to this day.

The Public Archives produced two other books in 1900 and 1908. These are "A Calendar of two Letter-Books and one Commission-Book 1713-1741" and "Original minutes of His Majesty's Council at Annapolis Royal 1720-1739". Both of these books details the years leading up to the expulsion, and the generally uncooperative nature of the Acadians towards the British.

The French did have a presence on Nova Scotia's Atlantic Coast. About 10 miles from Oak Island was Acadia's short lived capital of LeHeve, September 8th 1632 to 1635, under Commander Isaac de Razilly.

During this period, Nicholas Deny had a logging business in the area and lucky for us, he maintained a diary. Interesting to note is for the Indians of the area to have told of an island in the bay that would shoot fire from the ground and burn off one's balls. Considering there are no natural faults or conditions in the area, this legend can only refer to the activities of man and would be consistent for early mining techniques.

You can read Nicholas' diary here

http://link.library.utoronto.ca/champla ... &Limit=All

The French intermarried with the Indians in this area. Several French censuses show French/Indian families still living near the LeHeve until the 1680/90s. Cyprian Southack's navigation pilot book of 1730 shows the coast from Boston to Louisburg in great detail, including the area of LeHeve and Mahone Bay. In the North West corner of the bay, he shows houses…which can only be French houses and almost opposite Oak Island.

The French also had a few families living on the shores of Bedford basin during the founding of Halifax. While these were not big communities, it does show the French presence in all parts of NS.

You may wish to read this on Saint Anne

http://borderdata.com/