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 Post subject: Visions in Girona
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2009 1:52 pm 
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From City of Secrets:

"That night on a hill, near the Frenchwoman's garden, a vision of the Magdalene had appeared. 'La Dama de la Copa' or 'the Lady of the Cup'. Luis said over a hundred people had witnessed the appearance. It was like a rainbow and lasted nearly an hour. He said according to Lucia [Stillman] it could only happen in certain places, depending on the power of the ley lines and the pulses of energy in that precise area. It seemed to be above the hill, further up from the Frenchwoman's house ... When he [Gerard Ruiz] got to the space in front of the Cathedral he could see a patch of light in the sky. It didn't move, then faded and was gone ..."
CoS, pp. 157-58

The problem with CoS, beautifully written and evocative book though it is, is trying to determine what is a true recollection, what has been amplified, what has been invented, what has been fed to the author, and so on.

So I wonder where this episode fits into that equation. If it actually happened there appears to be no record of it (interestingly, in the text, reference is made to the phenomenon not likely being recorded publicly - in the sense of making the papers). And would such a sighting - "a patch of light in the sky" - qualify as a Marian apparition anyway? The description sounds too vague for that, and yet it is described as such in the book. Why?

If this is another of the invented parts of CoS, then for what purpose? We've been advised to see mentions in CoS of the "society" as being veiled references to La Sanch, and to see talk of the "grail" as alluding to the Great Relic. So what is this supposed to allude to? What are we supposed to take from this section? Is it the Magdalene we are supposed to focus upon? Is the Magdalene a metaphor for something else? Was the vision actually of something else entirely? The location (ley lines, energy pulses, etc.)? The ceremonies?

Here's a link I found. It lists reported Marian apparitions during the 20th century. Needless to say, there is no mention of Girona in 1975.

http://campus.udayton.edu/mary//resources/aprtable.html

(Not that it has any relevance, but those who like visiting Languedoc / Rousillon will notice a reference for 1976 to the stunning castle of Puylaurens, roughly midway between Quillan and Perpignan on a very pretty road.)

I like City of Secrets very much - as a piece of writing - and am enjoying it a second time. But it's very frustrating as well, not knowing what to believe, and what not to believe. The only thing in it that I totally believe is the love story element, which rings absolutely true.


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PostPosted: 05 Feb 2009 2:29 pm 
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Agreed, you old extremist romantic!?
But that also includes the clear love affair with the old stones of the city.

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PostPosted: 05 Feb 2009 3:13 pm 
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ndawe wrote:
you old extremist romantic!?


Guilty as charged. :wink:

Reading CoS, particularly in tandem with its companion piece - Happy Hour - one gets a very strong impression of this deep and enduring love between two people. And the sense of Patrice's love of the place, that you also allude to, is evident from the very first pages.

What the rest of it means is much more perplexing, but it works as a love story, so in a way the rest of it doesn't matter too much.

"Between us a fusion had taken place and it deepened until we were bound together. And he was father, lover, god to me and I felt so tight to the skin with him that I really was his, that he'd actually created me from some eruption not unlike the act of birth itself." CoS, p.44

I think the paragraph above is essentially what City of Secrets is really about.


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PostPosted: 05 Feb 2009 3:18 pm 
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richard.webster wrote:
ndawe wrote:
you old extremist romantic!?


Guilty as charged. :wink:

Reading CoS, particularly in tandem with its companion piece - Happy Hour - one gets a very strong impression of this deep and enduring love between two people. And the sense of Patrice's love of the place, that you also allude to, is evident from the very first pages.

What the rest of it means is much more perplexing, but it works as a love story, so in a way the rest of it doesn't matter too much.

"Between us a fusion had taken place and it deepened until we were bound together. And he was father, lover, god to me and I felt so tight to the skin with him that I really was his, that he'd actually created me from some eruption not unlike the act of birth itself." CoS, p.44

I think the paragraph above is essentially what City of Secrets is really about.


How beautiful.
Yes, this is what I took away from it. For sure, the parts that made me feel weird had much to do with the love of the rocks...(not place perse)...and the destructive forces that seemed so real and so present.
Her word "fusion" is also metaphor to nuclear and volcanic activity...as is eruption. (imho)

all of me,
paula


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PostPosted: 05 Feb 2009 3:25 pm 
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Or what a Sufi writer once described as "our alchemical journey"...

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 Post subject: Visions
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2009 3:33 pm 
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Sorry, you were talking about the visions - here's an excerpt from an interview Patrice gave to Ani Williams -

Regarding Magdalene and the appearances of the Lady of the Cup in Girona, did you ever meet anyone who witnessed this vision?

P: Oh yes, many. Some experienced perfume, others perceived her made of smoke or honey colored light and she gave the feeling of great healing, unlike anything else. The people who witness the vision are completely changed.


A: Many of the other appearances of Our Lady are experienced with sounds of bells, chimes and birdsong, such as Maria Guadalupe in 1531 at Tepeyac, Mexico. In your book you mentioned chimes and a gong being heard when she appeared.

P: Yes, that’s right. In another appearance of the Lady of the Cup, she came to the well by the barraca near the French Lady’s garden near the Torre Magdala. It’s where Charlemagne stayed when he first came to Girona. He also had a vision of Our Lady there. When she came they said at first that it was a fallen angel and then it appeared clearly to be the Lady with the Cup.

The effect of the Lady with the Cup is like a million gurus in one, so that the divine nature of that apparition or presence, is such that people feel that everything is alright and always will be. That is what the people who were there have said. Her appearances have occurred repeatedly there, but the church won’t accept it. They say that it’s Jesus and they created a shrine to him where her mark was left at the site. Those who witnessed the appearances were never allowed to say much about it. The woman who voiced her experience of the vision of The Lady was put into a mental home until she agreed to say that it was really Jesus. All the witnesses there saw the Lady with the Cup and they were familiar with it. They have images of her in the Catalan art, even from medieval times…it was the lady with the cup.

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PostPosted: 05 Feb 2009 4:02 pm 
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ndawe wrote:
Or what a Sufi writer once described as "our alchemical journey"...


[url]alchemicalpsychology.com/about/AlchemyConference.ppt[/url]

I think that it goes deeper than that...
I believe that Visions (mass visions) occur when external and internal circumstances are in some kind of sync. Electro-magnetic energies are important. Also of import...Sound Frequencies...Light Frequencies.

and some aspect of suggestibility...(imho)

all of me,
paula


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PostPosted: 05 Feb 2009 4:19 pm 
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Apparitions: Mystic Phenomena and what they mean

by Kevin Orlin Johnson, Ph.D

...a really good book.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2009 4:55 pm 
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Thank you, Nicole, for the interview excerpt. It seems that the appartion sightings were real then. Or at least people believed them to be so.

And I agree with you, Paula. There is definitely a sense of darkness and foreboding in the book, amidst everything else.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2009 7:16 pm 
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Richard

I was somewhat sceptical when I began to read the book, until it recounted how one member of this mysterious group, the doctor who took them to RLC in his car, point his finger out of his car window at the rocky outcrops they were passing and said "theres the true secret", or words to that effective. A bit of an obscure comment I know, but from the perspective of my research it was extremely meaningful.

John


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2009 7:22 pm 
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at the rocky outcrops

What rocky outcrops?


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PostPosted: 05 Feb 2009 9:16 pm 
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bergeredearcadie wrote:
at the rocky outcrops

What rocky outcrops?


It's Le Trou du Cure (Priests Pass), Sandy. At least, that's the picture shown in the book (p.115), at the part of the narrative that John mentions. It's on the D117, between Axat and Quillan, not far from Puylaurens Castle, as it happens (mentioned above). So you've probably driven through it - one of those slightly hair-raising bits of road where you think the jagged rocks sticking out on either side are going to tear hell out of the hire car.

Yes, John, I wondered why Patrice made a point of mentioning this, and thought to include a photo. Bit like wondering why, when describing the church, the only thing that's really given any prominence, apart from Asmodeus, and a pink pentagram on the wall (which I'm sure I've never seen?? :? :? ), is the statue of Saint Germaine, who's cropped up in various discussions recently.

"Saint Germaine held a luxuriantly embroidered cloth, with fluffy creatures I took to be lambs jumping at her legs. It looked energetic for the depiction of a saint. I asked who had decorated it. 'He did. The priest. Over sixty years ago.'" CoS p.119

Kind of interesting. Seems that someone wants us to consider this statue.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2009 9:19 pm 
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Roses


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2009 9:57 pm 
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These are two different saint Germains :)


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PostPosted: 05 Feb 2009 11:26 pm 
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tingra wrote:
These are two different saint Germains :)


Oh, well ......... :oops:


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 Post subject: It's still roses though....
PostPosted: 06 Feb 2009 12:01 am 
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Yup....Saint Germaine with an e....lambs & roses.. here she is.


http://www.perillos.com/brenac_02.html


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PostPosted: 06 Feb 2009 12:02 am 
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We are talking Marian apparitions here......so much to learn and so little time.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 06 Feb 2009 9:22 am 
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Saint Germain (masculine) - bishop of Paris - founder of St Germain des Pres - canonised in 754.

Sainte Germaine (feminine) - http://pagesperso-orange.fr/saintegermaine/intro.htm who Sheila mentions.

And then there's the Count of St Germain... :wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 06 Feb 2009 2:54 pm 
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Sheila wrote:
We are talking Marian apparitions here......so much to learn and so little time.


the RCC is highly interested in marian apparitions...
the jesuits are also...

this is the Mary that started it all for them (jesuits)
http://contemplatioadamorem.blogspot.com/2006/12/restored-image-of-madonna-della-strada.html

read the article with it...

and another link...
http://campus.udayton.edu/mary/questions/yq/yq115.html

all of me,
paula


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 06 Feb 2009 3:01 pm 
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opinion...

certain rocks carry certain properties...
some are more magnetic and some act as conductors of energy (like a quartz crystal...the same one in your quartz watch...it modulates the battery energy so that Time does not go too fast or too slow...)

volcanic rocks of different forms carry different properties.
are there many caves around old volcanoes (mountains)? is human sacrifice more prevalent near certain types of volcanic rock?

i do not know...i am asking questions. these are questions that CoS triggered within me.

all of me,
paula

richard...the dark foreboding...i only feel that in the intensity of CoS when i am researching human sacrifice...and human evil...and portals that allow the dead to be present among the living.

intuition and opinion...sorry, "no proof"


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 06 Feb 2009 5:56 pm 
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Paula - John Harper is very interested in and has written about this. I'm hoping there may be an article in the works. :) I looked back for something I remembered from last year and found it the Fauteil du Diable thread on RLC (p.4), where John refers on a few occasions on this relationship between geology and sacred places (see esp. page 2, 19th September). I'd paste it here but I've messed up my settings somehow. :?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 06 Feb 2009 8:55 pm 
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thanks richard!

all of me,
paula


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 Post subject: John Harper's Earlier Post
PostPosted: 06 Feb 2009 8:59 pm 
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John Harper wrote:
With regard to my assertion that – “The importance of RLC (and the many other locations involved in this mystery) can be found at this rocky outcrop” – i.e. the devils armchair at Rennes-Le-Bains.

The following “working” hypothesis is an attempt to understand the sacrificial phenomena whose evidence I examine in “The Secret Origins of Religion and Civilisation” here in the Articles section of Arcadia. The direction of my ensuing studies has been determined by the data presented in this first article which clearly suggests a causal relationship between the sacrificial liberation of blood and the inducement of these biological phenomena. The only way to appreciate the argument being made here therefore is to treat this piece as an extension to the above article. There are other fascinating areas of research that flow from this conclusion, but it is best that I deal with these separately.

If one examines the work of Paul Devereux and others, you will find that our ancient ancestor’s chose to locate their sacred (sacrificial) centres upon geological fault lines. When Christianity came along it occupied these same sacred locations in an effort to supplant their sacrificial worship with the symbolism of Christ’s sacrifice. This is why we find so many churches, like those of RLC and Perillos, constructed over fault-lines; the likelihood being that they were constructed upon ground that was already deemed sacred. The crucial question then, is why did our Stone Age ancestor’s site their sacrificial centres upon geologically active terrain?

If you type “Takata Reaction” into your web browser the result will be a large assortment of scientific articles dealing with a process Maki Takata developed in 1938 that removes albumin from blood by causing it to flocculate (curdle) so that it might be removed in a centrifuge. If you look more closely at your search results however you will discover the inclusion of one or two astrological websites that also highlight Maki Takata’s process, but for a totally different reason. Their interest stems from an intriguing discovery made by Takata that confirmed the astrological premise that heavenly bodies are capable of influencing humanity! What he discovered was that the rate of albumin precipitation varied in response to sunspot activity!

This astonishing solar influence is well known to the biochemists that use this albumin process on a daily basis, but its underlying cause would appear to remain a mystery. What particular interested me about this solar reaction upon blood was that the data highlighted certain changes in the albumin process at dawn and dusk, the time of ancient sacrifice! Some years later I discovered ultra low frequency (ULF) micropulsations in the earth’s magnetic field. These oscillations were produced when the solar winds (from sunspot activity) compressed the earth’s magnetosphere, causing these micropulsations to travel towards the earth’s surface along the magnetic field lines. Intriguingly, these pulsations have been shown to alter at dawn and dusk.

Whilst updating my data a few months ago I was surprised to discover that current research was suggesting a causal link between these micropulsations and a number of cardiovascular and psychiatric conditions. I also discovered evidence of two experiments carried out at the University of Pavia in Italy during a solar eclipse on the 15th February 1961. The first experiment dealt with the raising of bread yeast whilst another repeated the Takata process. Unfortunately I have only managed to obtain the findings of the Takata experiment, but the fact that these two tests were run side by side during a solar eclipse is, I believe, hugely significant. Further research may see me discuss this association at some point in the future, but for now the Takata experiment was to yield some interesting results. For example, “It may be inferred that the time at which blood was drawn was not of fundamental importance, since "inside" [a grounded iron screen] data tended to be constant while "outside" [the iron screen] data showed appreciable variation”. This suggests that “in analogy with Piccardi’s researches, we take this [causal] factor to be electromagnetic” We also learn that “A difference was also noted between dawn and sunset values, namely a maximum [flocculent variation] at sunset and a minimum [flocculent variation] shortly before dawn”.

To summarise; there is sufficient data coming to light to indicate a relationship between variations in geomagnetic micropulsations and the occurrence of a chemical reaction in blood, especially liberated blood. Under certain calendar conditions this haematological reaction shows “appreciable” variations at dawn and dusk, the time when our ancient ancestors made their offerings of blood. This work does not reveal the cause of these ancient sacrificial phenomena but it does suggest a natural process whereby they might be triggered. My original premise of a relationship between those geologically active locations and the liberation of blood has therefore gained weight, which brings me to the devils armchair and the rocky outcrop upon which it rests. Nobody can tell me what happens when these micropulsations encounter magnetic anomalies at the earth’s surface, so I am forced to speculate that they are changed in some way. Another variable to consider is that two millennia ago the earth’s magnetic field was far stronger than it is today. So when our ancient ancestors liberated blood at these locations the effects of these micropulsations may have been much different than they are today.

When I was about 13 or 14 years of age I took shelter for the night in a hermits cave up on Kinder Scout above the village of Edale. It was hewn out of solid rock and had a raised niche or bed carved into one wall onto which I unfurled my sleeping bag and climbed inside, and was quickly asleep. Many hours later I awoke with a start as a strange feeling coursed through my whole body. Thankfully it quickly subsided but I noticed the first rays of the sun beginning to lighten the sky outside the entrance to the cave, as I tried to make sense of the strange sensation. It was as if something had arisen through my prone body, as if leaving the rock to rise into the sky? I can only assume that Lyall Watson was affected by the same phenomenon when he was struck by a sensation of nausea whilst sitting upon a stone seat similar to the devils armchair watching the rays of the sun light up the dawn sky.

Both Boudet and Sauniere shared an interest in the megalithic history of the region. So were they aware of the Church of Mary Magdalene's unique ritual properties, and was Sauniere payed to bring the site up to standard so that others might make use of these facilities?

John


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 Post subject: Another cut and paste from John Harper...
PostPosted: 06 Feb 2009 9:11 pm 
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Posted: 23 Sep 2008 4:08 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Richard

Your right, the iron content of these rocks wold appear to be an important factor. The next time you see a painting of St Anthony the Hermit or St Anthony of padua consider the mountain cave or monastic cell that they inhabited. Is it merely to be near god or to be isolated from the world that abbeys and monastries are built upon the sides and peaks of rocky mountains? In the case of St Anthony of Padua, consider his illness; it is a common factor in saints who are siezed by holy emanations. St Roche is one such example but there are many more. Also note the common practice of fasting and mortification amongst these individuals. It is these two factors, the bodies condition and its location, that are the keys to understanding these misconceived phenomena, and it is this relationship that I'm trying to understand.

I'm not professing to have discovered an explanation for the RLC enigma, but if esoteric groups are involved, then my research may just provide some answers.

John

...now to read it all and absorb it.

ultra-low frequencies or extremely low frequencies (ELFs) are associate with many kinds of paranormal experiences...they are also associated with mind-control experiements...

there are a few individuals who are able to hear these frequencies (kind of gives a meaning to 'those who have ears to hear')...

sound and light at the ends of the spectrum are perceived by a minority of the population. that does not mean that those who do not perceive and who are not aware of these frequencies are not affect biologically and psychologically by them...

all of me,
paula


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 Post subject: Re: Another cut and paste from John Harper...
PostPosted: 06 Feb 2009 9:12 pm 
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crimson_dove wrote:
Posted: 23 Sep 2008 4:08 am Post subject:

-------John Harper quote:-------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Richard

Your right, the iron content of these rocks wold appear to be an important factor. The next time you see a painting of St Anthony the Hermit or St Anthony of padua consider the mountain cave or monastic cell that they inhabited. Is it merely to be near god or to be isolated from the world that abbeys and monastries are built upon the sides and peaks of rocky mountains? In the case of St Anthony of Padua, consider his illness; it is a common factor in saints who are siezed by holy emanations. St Roche is one such example but there are many more. Also note the common practice of fasting and mortification amongst these individuals. It is these two factors, the bodies condition and its location, that are the keys to understanding these misconceived phenomena, and it is this relationship that I'm trying to understand.

I'm not professing to have discovered an explanation for the RLC enigma, but if esoteric groups are involved, then my research may just provide some answers.

John "

__________________________

...now to read it all and absorb it.

ultra-low frequencies or extremely low frequencies (ELFs) are associate with many kinds of paranormal experiences...they are also associated with mind-control experiements...

there are a few individuals who are able to hear these frequencies (kind of gives a meaning to 'those who have ears to hear')...

sound and light at the ends of the spectrum are perceived by a minority of the population. that does not mean that those who do not perceive and who are not aware of these frequencies are not affect biologically and psychologically by them...

all of me,
paula


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