Arcadia Discussion Zone

Oh, then it must indeed be code for sodium carbonate and bicarbonate blended to induce visions of chickens becoming doves and Mary Magdalene buried under the church at RLC. That, of course, would make perfect sense. Silly me.

TCP

TCP

Just a bit too much irritation and sarcasm I think.

John

Thanks Paul, a great summary of the typical Teniers Temptation of St Anthony painting giving us the conventional explanation and drawing attention to the 'egg painted as a chicken' symbolism.

Surely the symbolic meaning of the egg is resurrection.
It is hardly imagineable that Teniers would intend the egg to mean something as profane as "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" in such a religious setting, despite TCP's effort to make this seem possible. In fact looking through Teniers' back catalogue it would seem Alchemists are one of his favorite subjects. Not surprising then that many of his St Anthony paintings show resurrection by alchemical means.
But is that itself symbolism?
Window ledge = In the light.
TCP quite rightly asks about the dove. The dove is taken to symbolise the Holy Spirit. Wikipedia entry here. Scroll down to 'depiction in Art' and note the link to 'language of the birds'. Interesting.

The parchment clue says Poussin Teniers holds the key. In the Poussin painting the thing held is the staff, ie the staff of life, normally looked on as being bread as in Ezekiel 4:16. [As a side note here, if the whole of Ezekiel Ch4 is read, there are strange parallels with what is happening today. In the Bible, a judgement is taking place; it is Israel that is being judged. In Ezekiel 4:2, God says "... and cast a mount against it ...". Today, the Israelis see themselves as the judges. The operation mounted by the Israelis against the Palestinians is called "Cast Lead". Lead was the base metal looked on by the alchemists as containing all the impurities that were necessary to be purged.]
In the Teniers painting, the thing held is the glass of water, ie, the water of life.
And what makes what is in the glass, the water of life? Why, the stuff that has dropped into the water from the poussin, the little chicken, which is bearly out of its egg, the symbol of resurrection.
Resurrection = Life, spiritual life.
And what confers spiritual life on us? Yes, Holy Spirit, symbolised by the Dove painted into the cloud (what better place) in Poussin's Et In Arcadia Ego.
And Et in Arcadia Ego takes us to the Underworld and the explanation of the Shugborough inscription.

Everything fits perfectly. The more it is examined, the more connections are made. Nothing is out of place. Every question is answered. It is a Perfect Solution.

If the above has not given you goose bumps then this should:
The Plantard 'fake' parchments have been used to give us this clue: Shepherdess Poussin Teniers Hold The Key. In the paintings the key is held by the figures the artists have painted. The key is life, spiritual life symbolised by the staffs - staff of life - bread in the Poussin paintings and by the glasses of 'Holy Spirit' - spirit of life - water in the Teniers.

In the Christian doctrine, spiritual life is assured by Christ's death and resurrection, symbolised by the egg; and everlasting life is assured, brought by the Holy Spirit, symbolised by the dove. It is this same opportunity for everlasting life that is symbolised by the removal of the S, the letter of everlasting death, in the Shugborough inscription. Death is defeated, Life is victorious.

Symbolism is played out in another way in the parchment clue.
We have already seen how Poussin's name is depicted in the poussin in Teniers' paintings. We have seen now how the key, life, is held in the hands of the figures in the work of both artists. It is a coincidence of course that the French verb 'Tenirs' does actually mean 'to hold'.
There are more coincidences. We should not forget the word Shepherdess at the front of the clue. In the Shugborough inscription explanation much store was put on the extract from Virgil's Eclogues originally given to us by 'bergeredearcadie', which translates as 'Arcadian shepherdess'. Sheila too, the one who worked out the Poussin / poussin link and worked out its meaning, is in real-life, a shepherdess. But the biggest coincidence of all is the one who started the Shugborough inscription thread. His forum name is Jean Vie. We must surely all remember enough French to know that Vie = Life.

The "parchments" are fakes created by Philippe de Cherisey who was a haphazard self-made esoteric who drank too much wine that eventually killed him. There is no connection between Philippe de Cherisey and RLC, just like there is no connection between Shugborough Hall and RLC.

Pure romance and conspiracy theory...

Hi there RM... Jean Vié = Janvier = January

And he died long before Sauniere appeared at RLC...

So......maybe he did...maybe he didn't.....so what.



Still looks like a poussin to me.

Didn't have anything to do with Sauniere.
His time began in 1885 and his selling of masses activities began some 4-5 years later.

If Teniers had wanted to paint a chicken...he would have painted a chicken...which he did...here it is.



When Teniers wanted to paint a poussin ....he would have painted a poussin....which he did...here it is.



Go figure!

Do you know what...I'm really tempted to be like Roscoe here & write this in big red Capital letters...but I'll restrain myself.

All I said at the beginning of the thread is....There happens to be a POUSSIN in the "Temptation of St Anthony" paintings by Teniers...That's all! Feck!....I hit the capital key...I must be shouting..why are you all so dumb!

Simple.

Who cares if it does not matter?

When mixed with lactobacillus which is found in the intestinal tract ( vent ) you get a cancer treatment by the way.

But you're not following this at all are you, far too busy checking me out for spelling mistakes.


Dec. 24, 2008 -- Another reason to celebrate under the mistletoe this holiday season is that researchers have just determined a medicine made out of fermented mistletoe may prolong the lives of cancer patients.

The plant is Viscum album, the most common holiday mistletoe of Europe, and the species that first inspired the tradition of couples sharing a kiss under its evergreen leaves and waxy berries.

The fermented mistletoe medicine is called Iscador.


"For the production of Iscador, mistletoe plants are harvested in the summer -- the stems and leaves -- and in the winter -- the stems, leaves and berries -- and then are fermented with lactobacillus," Renatus Ziegler, a research scientist at Institute Hiscia in Arlesheim, Switzerland, told Discovery News.

Various species of lactobacillus, a type of bacteria, are also used in the production of many foods and drinks such as yogurt, beer, wine and pickles.

Ziegler and co-author Ronald Grossarth-Maticek studied cervical and ovarian cancer patients to see how they might benefit in the long run if mistletoe extracts, such as Iscador, were added to their treatment regimes.

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2008/12/2 ... er-02.html

Mistletoe..Viscum Album.The Golden Bough. Herbe de la Croixe. All Heal

The best & strongest mistletoe is found on Pine trees.

"Frigga’s tears became the mistletoe’s white berries. In the version of the story with a happy ending, Balder is RESTORED TO LIFE, and Frigga is so grateful that she reverses the reputation of the offending plant–making it a symbol of love and promising to bestow a kiss upon anyone who passes under it."

Stop being so blinkered Roger & look again at the sequences of these paintings that I sent you...the drink in question restores life.

Yo Norton Dude - You there??

M Norton - You're beginning to sound like Canute raging at the waves lapping round his ankles as the tide comes in.
I've got a proposition for you.

If we (us forum members you despise so much) can solve the rest of the parchment clues
That is
PAX DCLXXXI
PAR LA CROIS ET CE CHEVAL DE DIEU
J'ACHÈVE CE DAEMON DE GARDIEN À MIDI
POMMES BLEUES

or in the Queen's English
PEACE 681
BY THE CROSS AND THIS HORSE OF GOD
I COMPLETE (or I DESTROY) THIS DEMON GUARDIAN AT MIDDAY
BLUE APPLES
(or there abouts)

will you finally agree that the Plantard 'fake' parchments, whether they are fake or not, do actually hold clues that can sensibly be decoded to relate to the RLC mystery.
We should have a time limit, so as the first clue, that we have now decoded all aspects of (except maybe some hidden geometry yet to be finalised), features the egg, symbol of resurrection, how about Easter.

So, in a nutshell:
If, by Easter, the forum members working together can decode the remaining clues found encoded in the large parchment, you will publicly accept that the clues, 'fake' or not, are valid clues to the RLC enigma.

In other words we are not concerned with the validity of the parchments themselves - just the validity of the clues that somehow got encoded into them.

That sounds perfectly reasonable to me, how about you?

Thanks, didnt know he original Jean Vie had an acute on the e. Youre right, that makes it sound like January.

January - the start of the year, the month the clue was solved.
As you know I think the Shugborough inscription is an alphabet puzzle. In ancient times the months were given letters - the first letter of the tree associated with that month. The mistletoe is a winter tree that Robert Graves places to counter the death influence of the yew, one of the trees of the 'dead' period of the year, the day or days inserted at the end of the year to make the sacred calendar fit the 'real' one.
This would make mistletoe the Tree of Life.
In even more ancient times there was a flower calendar - so the Tree of Life, mistletoe had an equivalent Flower of Life and so did the yew (aconite probably, 'Hecate's herb' she used it on Arachne when Athene got upset when beaten in a weaving contest).

I'm starting to ramble a bit but this is really coming together so I'm confident we can crack the rest of the parchment clues.

Does Mr Norton have the courage to accept the challenge.

We shall see.

First mentioned by Philippe de Cherisey in 1965 BEFORE the appearance of the "parchments" in Gerard de Sede's 1967 book "L'Or de Rennes".

Nothing to do with Rennes-le-Chateau.
EVERYTHING to do with the bogus Priory of Sion.

Steady up guys...I'm not intersted in codes & parchements.

I'll just say it again for the cheap seats...there happens to be a poussin in Teniers paintings...discuss!

It's a defecating egg with a chicken's head and legs.

blah, blah, blah..... at least we can tell you didn't go to art college...

Tobit's eye's where blinded by bird droppings ......by the way.

I am having a conversation with myself on the Girona thread about Doves so i might as well join you here and talk about birds shit

i dont know what to make of the book of Tobit.....i understand the burying of the dead significance but i dont know what implications it has with RLC apart from the book the Rise and all that entails.....how about you? can you enlighten me

i am wondering about Rennes-les-Bains...and the possible significance it might have.

the book of tobit is confusing for me too.

what i took from it was the angel Raphael...and his intervention vis-a-vis the 'Demon'...
always struck me...even as a child.

i know that this book is fiction...but kate mosse's Sepulchre was an awesome read... .

all of me,
paula

oh...i am re-reading the City of Secrets where you have highlighted tingra...if i may, i'll join you there when i am able. and thanks for starting the thread.

Hardly, I find it all terribly amusing!

TCP

Sheila, I guess it must be inconsequential that the citation describing what you see as a "poussin" as an egg with the head and feet of a chicken came from VADS, the Visual Arts Data Service at the University for the Creative Arts in Farnham, Surrey.

Isn't that an art college?

TCP

A pun perhaps? "Hen to pan" - the one, the all? Important to alchemy and in particular Egyptian alchemy? Teniers also painted more than one alchemist.