Arcadia Discussion Zone

Hmm...never thought of that. St. Sernin killed by a "bull" - but yet why would he be buried in a mithraeum if he was killed by Mithraeans? Who then would be the pagans that Les Puelles thought might profane his body?

TCP

Saint Sernin est le diminutif populaire de saint Saturnin, premier évêque de Toulouse, mort martyrisé en 250 pour avoir refusé de rendre un culte aux dieux romains. Au IIIe siècle, les chrétiens très minoritaires dans l’empire romain, considérés comme une secte, sont victimes périodiquement de persécutions. Pour les Romains, refuser la religion romaine c’est être déloyal.

He was secretly buried.

Here's a wee bit on the subject....
http://www.societe-perillos.com/livre_puelles.html

You're posting in French too now Sheila? Can people please include the English version along with the French, so readers won't have to go to a text translation site just to read a forum post? And, no, I'm not even slightly interested in learning French. That would be a whole lot of effort for virtually no return whatsoever.

Sorry, don't think it's been translated into english yet, but it probably will be soon. Just look at the images maybe?

However...how can you study this subject if you can't read French??

Oh right, I'm with you.........all I was saying is that St Sernin is St Saturnin, the first Bishop of Toulouse, martyred in 250 AD. You can read up on him and the Bull that dragged him to his death.

Burials...re-burials....etc

I used a translation site;

"Holy Sernin is the diminutive popular one of holy Saturnin, first bishop of Toulouse, dead tormented in 250 to have refused to return a worship to the Roman gods. To the IIIe century, the very minority Christians in the Roman, considered empire as a sect, are victims periodically of persecutions. For the Roman ones, to refuse the Roman religion is to be disloyal."

In regard to learning French so I can study the subject of RLC, I'm not particularly studying it. It's really just a subject I find interesting in relation to puzzle solving. Aside from that, I don't have much interest in French history. Besides, look how well the translation site works. It makes perfect sense now.

Les Saintes Puelles... Isis and Nepthys.

When Isis sought Osiris, and then again when she mummified him, she had the help of her sister Nephthys. The power of the two sisters was considerable, for it was believed that their prayerful weeping and magical formulas had done much to effect the rebirth of the god their brother.

It happens that the details concerning Isis' sister are so scarce, and her role so colorless, that it has been speculated that Nephthys was not an independent figure at all. It is argued that Nephthys exists only as a reflection of Isis, as her "shadowy double"., Isis and her double...Nephthys.

You may be right.

On looking at the picture posted by Horus I noticed the details of the two girls: one wearing brown, one black; one brooch worn square, one worn diagonally; one head up with eyes looking forwards, one head down looking down. ie: all the way through, two opposites - but presumably joined at the hip. Two shades of the same person. Solve Coagula!

I could not see the sickle St Sernin (Saturnin) is supposed to be holding, which is a shame, but is the person in the background feeding chickens?
I say a shame because the way I think we could look at these depictions of St Anthony would have death all around, as indeed they do as the many crosses coming out of the very rocks, shadows and foliage would seem to indicate. If these crosses indicate death then they could be saying that he has died many times, ie 'died unto himself' within his cave. I suppose that would make it more of a 'cave of rebirth'.
Other versions of this painting, if my memory serves me correctly, even have multiple 'demon heads' scattered about (I have not counted to see if there are seven). One painting even has a just visible shade left in the cave.
The other great theme of this painting is the raven bringing the bread of life, which fits in quite well. The black bird in the background may well be a crow, symbolic of death, which no doubt would have visited him if he had not been successful in his cave.

If this scenario is correct then I suppose the tau cross must be taken in the Egyptian sense of meaning life (rebirth or resurrection), not after death, but during life. A bit heretical - and doing it on your own as well!!

I don't know why his visitor is called Saturnin, but saturn is the first symbol on the Porta Magica, probably indicating that its the first step on the alchemical path, ie the path of self-transformation.

If there is anything to this would that make the supposed ( I ) in Et In Arcadia Ego, Life? As in Through Death - Life, which would be a satisfactory Christian interpretation, or Through Death of the Self - Rebirth, which may not be.

Anyway, this whole thing may be nonsense, but I thought your 'shade' interpretation was quite insightful.

Ok, so I jsut wanted to post something here to get rid of that damned 'Guest' in the last post field; )

Hi Andy....who is/was the guest above who replied to me and mentions "the cave of rebirth" ?

Sheila, I believe it was RenaissanceMan who was inadvertently deleted during Andy's recent tidy up of registered users. He has now re-registered I'm pleased to say. VAM

Thank you VAM.

Sorry for not responding earlier Sheila. I was fortunate to be able to take a six month break, but had to re-enter the world of work at 8am this morning. This means evening and weekend postings only for me from now on. I dedicated most of the 6 months to studying the RLC mystery (plus around 20 years before that, plus 2 years on ley lines).

Erm yes, Andy deleted The RM account so all RM's previous posts are now 'Guest'. At least the posts are still there.

As you have probably noticed I don't look on things in the same way as most and I have very definite reasons for seeing things the way I do. Hopefully things will become clearer in time.

I was hoping you would be taking your cult of the dead thing a stage or two further and was just adding a few things to the mix so to speak. There are so many areas where new insights could be made and you gave me the impression you want to explore new lines of thought.

Cave of rebirth as I see it....

Take a look at this one by Teniers



OK, he is being tempted but look at the back of the cave and compare it with the drawing below I've already posted
and described here.



In all parts there are opposites (as mentioned above in this very thread). The divided self is shown in the process of self destruction
ie: destroying the central column that holds up the cave. In the Teniers painting, St Anthony is out of the cave. He has been successful.
Therefore he is no longer being tempted!!!

The figure on the left in the drawing above is looking at something. Can you guess what it might be? I think the answer can be found
on Paul Smith's web site on his excellent page about Shugborough Hall.

I started to post a solution to the Shugborough inscription yesterday on this thread. Maybe that is what prompted your post here.
I am continuing that and other threads until a complete solution is resolved.
Please keep watching and responding!

Interesting....but St Anthony is NOT being tempted in these paintings. I don't think any of Teniers paintings show Temptation....quite the opposite actually.

The conventional view is that the demons are whispering temptations at him. If your interpretation is dramatically different would you like to share it?

I'm seeing it as he is being tempted but there is no temptation.

I have a collection of images of the "Temptation of St Anthony" because I was looking for something else ( that I found ) but what struck me straight away was that St Anthony is NOT being tempted as far as I can make out. However I need to have the images placed in order that they were painted to try & make sense of it.










There seems to be a steady stream of visitors coming to visit him. He has a trusted assistant, she crops up in most of the paintings, she seems apologetic as if she is reluctant to disturb him in his meditations but needs must because the visitors want something that only he can give them.

The young women arrive with a glass...I think it's empty...St Anthony must fill it for them.



Here's his assistant, she lays a gentle hand on his shoulder and an apologetic look, the glass needs filled?

He is not surrounded by deamons or devils, they seem very friendly, they are waiting for something, there is a quiet party atmosphere, there is music and the gifts that people bring him.



This painting is amazing....This visitor is a rich man with his ageing wife, she needs help.....he wants to rejuvenate her, he brings a Peacock as a gift, it is under his arm......other gifts are scattered about. There is a party atmosphere.

The happy blond man in red is young with rosy cheeks because he has already had the drink that the rich man requires for his wife!

Are you following me here?



This visitor brings a gift in one hand and his beloved on the other, they want what the pig has drunk......he has been rejuvenated.

Notice the water chute...it crops up in most of these paintings....and so does something else.

The little white chick, right? The one that keeps appearing on top of jugs, leaving a deposit.

Little chick - petit poussin. In a painting by Teniers. As in "Poussin Teniers holds the key". Maybe? I don't know. But I do know that you very kindly e-mailed me some of those Teniers paintings back in the summer, which I just went back and had a look at. And you made a certain connection between bird droppings and something else, but I don't know whether or not to say what that something else was ('cos it was in an e-mail), so maybe you'll develop that here?

Thanks for putting the paintings in their chronological order, and for the commentary, because it's very interesting. You're a good teacher!

Voila...........le petit Poussin de Teniers. He holds the clue to something.

Here he is........he has an important job to do.......theres a lot of glasses needing filled!

Hi Richard, thanks for that....however, these paintings are NOT in chronological order, that's something I havn't got round to yet....and I think that might be neccessary to understand what is going on here.

The water chute - the water of life.
Was there a slang French phrase around at the time these were painted for 'chicken shit'? In every painting it seems that the 'deposit' is missing the water pitcher.

What ever is going on it looks like St Anthony is in the Underworld.

As he is not in his cave in these paintings, my interpretation would be that he has been successful in his endeavours to conquer his demons. This means he would be able to communicate with them etc.
If your interpretation is correct, is he now passing on the experience he has gained as suggested by the final stage of the Porta Magica?

There is more to put on the Shugborough Inscription thread that may be of interest.

Look closer... the "deposit" is going in the pitcher/jug!

For such an accomplished artist the chick's rear end seems decidedly unrealistic. It looks more like a vial of something is being added to the water.