Arcadia Discussion Zone

Overton Hill, upon which the Sanctuary is sited, was in ancient times called Hakpen Hill. Hakpen meaning Snake's Head. So this was no fanciful masonic idea of Stukeley. The tail of the snake, the avenue leading to the west Stukeley drew as extending much further than we believe it really it did. Furthermore is does not end in a tapered tail but it seems now there was a structure and enclosure of some kind at the other end also.

The occupants who later colonised Avebury were largely religious dissenters of some zeal, at war with the King essentially, who had imposed orthodoxy in the Church of England and insisted all dissenters could not preach and congregate within 5 miles of the nearest town. Avebury fitted the bill very well in this part of the world. Visiting dissenting preachers would come and rant about fire and brimstone. They certainly hated Stukeley.

The fact that the dissenters readily and rapidly acquired land within the henge and Bob Nadler owned half of it beforehand probably meant that Nadler was sympathetic to the Quaker cause. They were what we now call Quakers.

The ancient stones played no part in their beliefs and the more Stukeley drew attention to their pre-Xtian provenance the more they wanted to destroy these pagan stones.

They formed a ready free quarry of stones for the rapid building in the area and killed two birds with one stone. Erm, I mean a whole bunch of stones.

I love it too. I think perhaps we should start a new thread though, rather than spam Richard's thread with more Middle Eastern mystique.

Oh ... I didn't know about Overton Hill being called Hakpen in ancient times. I think in that case I've made a mistake somewhere on this section of the forum in the past by querying one of Stukeley's drawings. Sorry about that, and apologies to Stukeley, because the reason for my mistake was that I've got a few Stukeley prints that I bought in the Avebury craft and book shop, one of which is Plate XXVII, a depiction of Silbury Hill from 1723.



Abury (Avebury) is shown off to the left, and the key at the bottom identifies the Roman road (A) and Hakpen hill (B), described by Stukeley as "the Snakes head or hakpen". I assumed that he meant what is now Hackpen Hill (slightly different spelling, but surely the same derivation) which is few miles up the Ridgeway, on the way to Barbury Castle hill fort. Distance wise, the B on the horizon is probably about right, bit close maybe, but not so as you'd quibble about it, but it's position relative to Silbury Hill and Avebury looked all wrong, and so I assumed Stukeley had used a considerable amount of poetic licence in placing it there. In fact, as I now know from your info above, he's looking over to Overton Hill, which is certainly in the right place. So that all makes more sense to me now.

This is the other Hackpen Hill, with its white horse, cut in 1838, by Henry Eatwell, the parish clerk of the nearby village of Broad Hinton, with the help of a local publican, to celebrate the coronation of Queen Victoria.

I am from a family of mountaineers.... i climbed as a toddler in the Crib Goch and Yr Wyddfa range, as a child i challenged the Eiger, as a teenager i explored the Khumbu and base camp of Sagarmatha...and i never once mislaid my compass.
The last time i used my compass was when i sat on the top of Silbury hill and took my bearings nearly 25 years ago...i never knew she was missing but i've never seen her again.

Silbury Hill ate my compass.

That's sad and strange. If I should ever stumble across it, in the vicinity, I'll return it.

Seriously impressed with the mountains (especially the third one!).

I haven't been on the hill itself since childhood, it's been closed off for years now, reasonably enough, to protect it, given the numbers who visit (back then, you could still walk in amongst the stones at Stonehenge), and on Silbury there have been problems with erosion, and the big depression that appeared at the top, when they were worried it might start to collapse into itself, and it's a bit of a Swiss cheese inside, because of all the tunnelling, so there's been quite a bit of preservation work done there in recent times. Intriguing place.

Silbury looks so innocent doesn't it Sheila....do you remember your compass having trouble finding North while standing on the hill

Stukely seemed to think the Magnetic field was interesting

So Richard are there TWO heads of the dragon or serpent ?
That would make sense
I found this in a town of Arcadia


Its a stained glass window by a renown stained glass master
Its winged dragons entertwined and biting the others tail
Its an example

The first known appearance of the ouroboros motif is in the Enigmatic Book of the Netherworld, an ancient Egyptian funerary text in KV62, the tomb of Tutankhamun, in the 14th century BC. The text concerns the actions of the god Ra and his union with Osiris in the underworld. In an illustration from this text, two serpents, holding their tails in their mouths, coil around the head and feet of an enormous god, who may represent the unified Ra-Osiris. Both serpents are manifestations of the deity Mehen, who in other funerary texts protects Ra in his underworld journey. The whole divine figure represents the beginning and the end of time.[3]

The ouroboros appears elsewhere in Egyptian sources, where, like many Egyptian serpent deities, it represents the formless disorder that surrounds the orderly world and is involved in that world's periodic renewal.[4] The symbol persisted in Egypt into Roman times, when it frequently appeared on magical talismans, sometimes in combination with other magical emblems.[5] The 4th-century AD Latin commentator Servius was aware of the Egyptian use of the symbol, noting that the image of a snake biting its tail represents the cyclical nature of the year

I find that we have the Egyptian word Obelisk and we have the Snake Heads

Greece

Plato described a self-eating, circular being as the first living thing in the universe—an immortal, mythologically constructed beast.

In Gnosticism, this serpent symbolized eternity and the soul of the world. The Gnostic text Pistis Sophia describes the disc of the sun as a 12-part dragon with his tail in his mouth

The Ouroboros symbol appears in both 14th-15th century Albigensian printing watermarks

In Norse mythology, it appears as the serpent Jörmungandr, one of the three children of Loki and Angrboda, who grew so large that it could encircle the world and grasp its tail in its teeth.

It's possible, lovuian, or the hills could refer to two heads of two different serpents. Both hills lie on the Ridgeway, the very ancient track that runs across that part of the country, and one could maybe see that as the body between the two heads. I think from memory it would take about an hour or so to walk from one to the other, along the track, so they'd be about three miles apart. But it could be two snakes.

Hackpen Hill (the one that's called that now, with the white horse) has its own mythology, and is associated with fairies, as seen in this extract from The Fairy Folklorist.



Here's the whole link, which includes some photos, one of which is of a strange circle of daffodil plants in one of the little woods that dot that part of the landscape.

http://faeryfolklorist.blogspot.co.uk/2 ... shire.html

It can feel quite an eerie place up there at times, in the right sort of weather conditions. This is another one of the copses in the vicinity of Hackpen, and also lying on the Ridgeway. I took this in late December 2010. The whole county had been covered in snow for a couple of weeks, as had much of the UK that winter, and then the temperatures rose and it all melted quite quickly, and we had several days of thick mist. I walked over to Barbary Castle - an ancient hillfort - that day, and it had been rendered virtually invisible. Nicer when you can see things, obviously, but quite a memorable visit in its own way.

I think you are right, there are two snake's head hills. How confusing. I wonder whether Stukeley bent the truth to fit his masonic leanings and vision of the great snake sweeping through Avebury? Or as is often found, several places are credited with the same name in a local vicinity through hearsay and a local fable of some kind.

Colt Hoare happily called Overton Hill Hakpen Hill in the early 1800s, but maybe he simply copied Stukeley?



Over at Avebury-web they state: "Because of his druidic vision that the henge and its avenues represented a gigantic serpent William Stukeley often referred to the Sanctuary as the hakpen (serpent's head). As a result he also often refers to Overton Hill as Hakpen Hill."



Looking at the picture above, Stukeley has named the whole ridge Hakpen Hill. The....Hakpen....Hill. Yet he calls the Sanctuary Overton Hill in this picture.

The western Beckhampton Avenue was about half the length Stukeley shows it, ending at the Longstones.

Temple Downs is named after a Knight's Templar holding there, I believe.

I don't have my OS map with me, I'll check it later, but I recall that in that area on the east side of the Ridgeway there are a couple of "temple" references on it; a Temple Farm, I think, and a temple something else, an odd word I just can't remember, that I was going to ask about on here, but never did. It's near Rockley. I'll check my map later, unless someone else can have a look first.

I see that on the Stukeley scenographic map you posted Windmill Hill is shown, slightly in the wrong place, but there's another Windmill reference (can't quite tell if the word next to it is "hill" or not) on what must be Waden Hill. I'm a bit confused by the high ground he's showing to the west of that, NNW of Silbury Hill. Interesting map, but probably not one to use as a navigational aid when walking!

I found an online version of the OS map. Yes, there is a Temple Farm near Rockley (SU147725, 55.451N x 1.790W), and just to the south-west a Temple Bottom (SU144724, 51.450N x 1.795W) which would be the floor of the little valley below. But I know from my paper map that there is another reference in that immediate vicinity, I think it might be something like Temple Covert, so I will check that map later.

I've read something about this site before, but not sure where. Whether it was a Templar preceptory or simply a land holding I don't remember.

OK, we have it...

HOUSE OF KNIGHTS TEMPLARS

17. THE PRECEPTORY OF TEMPLE ROCKLEY

John Marshall, ancestor of the Earls Marshall and Earls of Pembroke, gave 1 hide of land in Rockley (Ogbourne St. Andrew) to the Knights Templars in 1155-6. (fn. 1) They had already been given 2 hides in Lockeridge (West Overton) by Miles, Earl of Hereford, and other parcels were given about the same time by William Beauchamp, Richard Sokemond, and Thomas de Hacy. (fn. 2) From the terms of these gifts it is clear that the Templars had established a preceptory at Rockley during the reign of Henry II. In 1185 they also held lands in Durnford, Farley, Netheravon, and Berwick Basset, (fn. 3) and they had a royal grant of 1 mark annually, which was paid by the Sheriff of Wiltshire. (fn. 4)

A survey of the Templars' lands at Rockley and elsewhere was made in 1185. At that time their estate was valued at £3 15s. The servile customs of the manor were set out in detail. Each holder of 5 acres was bound to find one woman to milk the ewes and make cheese, also for shearing and washing the sheep. Boon-work at the harvest time and the small payments in kind to which the tenants were entitled were fully described. (fn. 5)

No single preceptor is known to us by name, nor any event in the history of the house. The Order of the Templars was suppressed in England in 1308, and in 1313 the keeper of their lands in Wiltshire was ordered to pay the Bishop of Salisbury for the maintenance of four Templars, John de Mohun, John de Egle, Robert de Hameldon, and Robert de Sautré, (fn. 6) the only Wiltshire Templars whose names survive. With other estates of the Order, Rockley passed to the Knights Hospitallers, but this Order did not establish a preceptory there. The lands at Rockley and Lockeridge were added to the holdings of the preceptory at Sandford (Oxon.). In 1338 these lands were valued at £20. There was 1 messuage in each place, pasture altogether for 1,200 sheep and other livestock, and small rents and services. The Knights maintained one chaplain, a bailiff, and a reeve. The net profits were £12. (fn. 7) After the dissolution of the Hospitallers, the manor of Rockley was granted to Sir Edward Baynton in 1541. (fn.

I checked, it is Temple Covert, and it's a little wood, a short distance from Temple Farm, so not very significant, really, a landscape term like Temple Bottom, meaning a thicket of trees inhabited by game birds.

Yes Richard that is what I was thinking two snakes with two heads
which would entertwine

and may I say that picture is quite amazing
it really does give an eerie feeling

Great Photo Richard

Whoop wouldn't the whole ridge be the body of the serpent or dragon? Maybe he is indicating the path of the serpent ...or the body
forgive me you guys but I'm not as good at logistics as you are
is the serpent body or the Ridge ...Hagpen Hill running North to South or is it in another direction?
the avenues look like they go east and west

It was ISIS the serpent queen of heaven who guided the dead through the underworld with its twists and turns
the Tau Cross
is a symbol of Thors hammer ...and
Midgard Serpent, which encircled the globe in the symbol of the Ouroboros, eating its own tail

Here is an example of a red serpent cross


Its similiar to that stained glass window the criss cross pattern

Megaliths Isle of Skye
Megaliths St Salveur


The sun halo of Jesus.

Hagpen?? Is that an enclosure for witches? That would be quite a good name for a hill though, so I'm only having a bit of fun with your typo.

Yes, the Ridgeway runs broadly north-south in that area, and Hackpen Hill lies on one of its western flanks, to the north of Avebury, so the serpent and its head(s) idea certainly works in that context.

But bear in mind that the Stukeley scenographic view posted above uses a lot of poetic licence in its composition, and is really a collage of different aspects of the Avebury landscape, and not a map in any way.

Stukeley had a problem with scale, his drawings are cute but the relative scale of things is all over the place.

Stukeley first encountered Avebury while out hunting on horseback one day. I surmise he rode around this area a lot, so his mental map was probably somewhat adrift of the actual topology of the area.

A bit today about the Pallisades at Avebury.

In between Silbury Hill and The Sanctuary there existed an area we know today as The Pallisades, which is probably the most unknown feature of the area but was possibly more impressive than Avebury itself in its day. It has been dated to around 2,500 BC, so it is contemporary with the henge and Silbury. As the name suggests, this was two enormous circular enclosures containing a number of complex features we know nothing about.

To give some idea of the scale of The Pallisades, some 2,000 wooden posts were erected. Each post was about a metre across and may have been 6 to 8 metres high, as estimated by Whittle in 1997.

One of the enclosures straddles the River Kennet, which winds down from the north above Silbury, going some way the south of it before taking an abrupt turn the north east. The other sits just south of the river.

The fields are all ploughed out, but painstaking work by Pete Glastonbury and Steve Marshall plotted the crop marks seen at various times among the cereal crops.

It was Pete who first drew attention to Silbaby, indeed he gave it its name, which seems to have stuck. Silbaby sits adjacent to these Pallisades. A map is in order:



Together with an archaoastronomer, George Currie, the team did some research on what are called sunrolls at Silbury.

Sun and moon rolls occur in places where a slope of a hill, mountain or artificial features can be seen against the horizon. They are starting to be recognised at many megalithic sites, but of course the sighting point has to be known as well - a backsight.

In the case of the sun, a hill with a slope of between 30º-35º will roughly be at the same slope as a rising or setting sun at these latitudes.

Now it just happens to be the case that a pile of dirt, be it chalk or gravel, will tend to settle at about this angle naturally. Silbury has been analysed and may actually be nine-sided, Field, 2008. Generally it slopes about 30º. Ideal candidate for a sunroll.

I will divert just a second to say a word or two about Silbaby. Whether Silbaby is natural or man-made we don't yet know but whatever the case, there is a spring which starts at the base of Silbaby and curves under it to meet the River Kennet. This may have been significant for those living in The Pallisades.

The sketch below is a little misleading, Silbaby stretched across the road to the north and was cut across its northern side, so it was probably a little bigger than shown here and thus slap bang on the line between The Sanctuary and Silbury. Stukeley and others certainly noted Silbaby on their plans as a feature worthy of note.



What was found is that a sunroll viewed from The Pallisades shows the sun rolling down Silbury Hill, where it disappears framed by Silbaby into the source of the spring.

This is the view to Silbury we are speaking of, Silbaby at right:



Picture below by Pete G, who regrettably is now unwell and unable to do much further research on this. He hoped to publish this work, but now says this is unlikely. The view is from about where it says structure 3 in the plan at top.



The sun rolls down the slope of Silbury and plops into the spring around May Day. The picture shown here is May 16th 2009. May 15th was optimum but cloudy. The sun moved north and returned again as predicted for an optimum roll again on July 25th.

The moon follows a similar arc, so moonrolls could feature viewed from here also.

Want to go down there and investigate Richard? Sunset of the 25th?

My spelling is atrocious!!!! Sheila is right my fingers work faster than my brain
You know I like Stukely's map because it gives you a glimpse at what he thought of the whole concept of the area

It makes sense that the dragons or serpents run North to South and the ridge shows the body of the dragon
this is where the Druids are too cool

they could be explaining Magnetic fields
and the dragons are North or South



The magnetic poles of earth are not fixed on the surface, but wander quite a bit as the map shows. The pole in the Northern Hemisphere seems to be moving northwards in geographic latitude by about 10 kilometers per year, but the motion is only an averge.

On any given day, it moves erratically by many tens of meters because of changes in the currents inside earth's core, as well as the influence of electrical currents in the ionosphere, and the changing space environment due to solar storms and winds.

Studies of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge in the Atlantic Ocean half-way between North America and Europe have shown that as the fresh rock cools, it records the polarity of the earth's field. By dating the rocks on either side of the ridge, geologists discovered that the polarity of the Earth's field changes over the course of thousands of years. This was an exciting discoverery that not only verified the theory of Continental Drift, but demonstrated that earth's magnetism isn't constant over millions of years. The magnetic field of earth actually changes its polarity over time. They are called Polarity Reversals, but should not be confused with the rotation axis of earth actually changing.

There have been about 170 of these reversals during the last 76 million years according to geological evidence. The time between reversals seems to be growing longer, and is currently about 300,000 years or so. The last one of these happened about 770,000 years ago

Presently, Earth's magnetic field is weakening in strength by 5% every 100 years. It may be near zero in another few thousand years at this rate!
http://image.gsfc.nasa.gov/poetry/tour/AAmag.html

Any interesting magnetic changes ?

Oh that is such a cool picture Whoop

One of the Kennet's sources is Swallowhead Spring near Silbury Hill in the county of Wiltshire,

it passes close by many prehistoric sites including for Avebury Henge and Silbury Hill.



Liquid water is affected by magnetic fields

and such fields can assist its purification

water is diamagnetic


Monks Mound in Cahokia is very close to the Mississippi

What a beautiful picture, truly exquisite.

Yes, that sounds do-able, would love to see that. Sunset on 25th July, btw, should be 2105 hrs (based on the BBC weather service, which gives sunset in London tonight at 2118, and in Marlborough, 50 or so miles to the west I guess, I'm not sure, but there it's going to set at 2124, so six minutes ahead, and the sun calculator shows 2059 in London for the 25th, hence 2105 near Avebury), but that would be the end of the roll rather than the beginning. It's a really interesting idea, that would be great to witness.

There is a slight catch, which is that to see a sunset one needs to be able to see the sun, and it hasn't been around much recently. But it can't rain for ever, so fingers crossed.

I liked it. Hagpen has a nice folkloric ring about it, and if there isn't a hill called that somewhere, then there should be.

Picture of the stream, on a cold, grey day, the winter before last.



This is a little bridge that goes over it, also in the vicinity of Silbury Hill.

lovely stuff...great posts.