Arcadia Discussion Zone

From a story in today's paper:

Italian Study Claims Turin Shroud is Christ's Authentic Burial Robe





The whole Nick Squires article can be found here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religio ... -robe.html

I thought you were an atheist, Richard and didn't believe in things like that?

I'm just reporting the story. I don't really have much of a view about the shroud, one way or the other, actually, just an interesting story. Part of life's rich tapestry, so to speak.

That's more like you, you had me scared for a second.

Scientists say Turin Shroud is supernatural

"The results show that a short and intense burst of UV directional radiation can colour a linen cloth so as to reproduce many of the peculiar characteristics of the body image on the Shroud of Turin."

And in case there was any doubt about the preternatural degree of energy needed to make such distinct marks, the report spells it out: "This degree of power cannot be reproduced by any normal UV source built to date."


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/scien ... 79512.html

must try to find out a bit more on this report...

It was the Crista that did it don't you know

...probably powerful enough i suppose, but.

This gives a somewhat readable translation:

http://shroudofturin.wordpress.com/2011 ... th-google/

The shroud of Turin is unusual because it's three dimensional.
Also there are 120 lesions the shape of dumb bells distributed over the back and running around the body.
Deep wound on the side and thornlike marks on the head.
Sidelocks and unplated pony tail.
etc...etc...
When you look at the evidence it's a wonder they did think it was medieval shroud.

http://media.isnet.org/off/Xtian/Triunity/shroud.html

Not only is the Turin Shroud probably a medieval fake but it is just one of an astonishing 40 so-called burial cloths of Jesus, according to an eminent church historian.

Antonio Lombatti said the false shrouds circulated in the Middle Ages, but most of them were later destroyed.

He said the Turin Shroud itself – showing an image of a bearded man and venerated for centuries as Christ’s burial cloth – appears to have originated in Turkey some 1,300 years after the Crucifixion.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z1zNJZ7BXW

Death certificate is imprinted on the Shroud of Turin, says Vatican scholar
The Times – Nov 20, 2009

A Vatican scholar claims to have deciphered the “death certificate” imprinted on the Shroud of Turin, or Holy Shroud, a linen cloth revered by Christians and held by many to bear the image of the crucified Jesus.

Dr Barbara Frale, a researcher in the Vatican secret archives, said “I think I have managed to read the burial certificate of Jesus the Nazarene, or Jesus of Nazareth.”

I will state that the Bible says that Jesus would “be called a Nazarene” (Matthew 2:23).

Christians were often called Nazarenes in the first (Acts 24:5) through fifth centuries. Scattered Christians seemed to have been called/considered Nazarenes throughout history.

It is an amazing cloth ...incredible

Yes but is it a Relic or an Icon?

I go with Icon

it's neither a relic nor an icon....the shroud is a testament to the fact that something inexplicable happened.

I'm with Lov when she said..."It is an amazing cloth ...incredible".... and those that think it's a fake are in denial, simply because they cannot get their heads around the crazy concept of a flash of supernatural light that transposed a flesh and blood being from where it was... to somewhere else.....via some form of electromagnetic energy.
....the 'darkest mysteries of faith' indeed.

It is an amazing cloth for various reasons, i agree with you regarding the "photographic" element, I don't believe it was the body of Jesus.

What makes you think a body/ being was transposed from one place to another?
Who's body?

no...doesn't really come in to it.


it's called "The resurrection" ...by the mainstream media.

Just as an aside, I read something lately about the Oriflamme that I thought was interesting considering Geoffroi de Charneys possession of both that and the shroud

In peacetime it was reverently deposited in the monastery/ church? Of St Denis. Periodically the kings of France brought it forward for war in an elaborate ceremony involving masses, benedictions and relics. Immersed in this atmosphere of candlelight and incense, the guardian of the oriflamme, kneeling with head bared, took the following oath, said out to him by the Abbot of St Denis.......

You swear and promise on the precious, sacred body of Jesus Christ PRESENT HERE and on the bodies of Monsigneur Saint Denis and his fellows which are here. That you will loyaly and in person hold and keep the oriflamme of our lord king, who is here, to his honour and profit and that of the realm, and not abandon it for fear of death or whatever else may happen, and you will do your duty everywhere as a good and loyal knight must towards his sovereign and proper Lord.

After the oath the king himself raised the bearer to his feet and kissed him on the mouth. The bearer then genuflected before the potent relics and took the sacred banner in his joined hands, he raised it aloft for all to see. The Lords and Barrons were allowed to kiss the oriflamme as a relic and worthy thing.

How does the photographic negative element not come into it?
Who do you think was resurrected then?

who do you think Tina ! ...how many have there ever been throughout history..

You really think it was JC

I believe the shroud was made in Geoffrois lifetime.

I'm right on your wavelength Sheila ...We just discovered the possiblity of the "God Particle" at Cern ...that is a particle that gives us mass to matter
that opens up some interesting thoughts ...but getting back to your interesting theory of light ....or energy
I don't know if you remember this a long time ago we were talking about a secret Magdalene chapel in Paris near MontMarte and St Denis
and you remember I told you the statue there had no eyes except the socket was completely White ....kinda like this

this is a bust of Alexander the Great
just think about the idea of light as a force of life and energy

I have no idea if the shroud is real or not
the phenomenon that made the cloth is miraculous

Great info Tingra
It could be meaning (Jesus Christ Present Here) that the Host resided in the church which represented the Body of Christ which Catholics believe that at Communion it turns into

but I really don't know

Yes it probably does mean the host Lov, an interesting thought though as he was responsible for both sacred pieces of cloth, don't you think

In that I am in totally agreement with you Tingra
It seems that the Body of Christ has mutiple meanings



I'm just pointing out here the eyes on the shroud

Joseph Kohlbeck from the Hercules Aerospace Company in Utah and Richard Levi-Setti of the Enrico Fermi Institute examined some dirt particles from the Shroud surface. The dirt was found to be travertine aragonite limestone.[81] Using a high-resolution microprobe, Levi-Setti and Kolbeck compared the spectra of samples taken from the Shroud with samples of limestone from ancient Jerusalem tombs. The chemical signatures of the Shroud samples and the tomb limestone were found identical except for minute fragments of cellulose linen fiber that could not be separated from the Shroud samples.

It really is an amazing find and cloth

Yes, a flash of "supernatural light" that focused itself on a two dimensional flat surface while wrapped around a 3 dimensional object. Yeah, anything is possible once you leave the realm of reality. Just can't understand why this supernatural force just didn't leave a fully developed colored image instead.