Arcadia Discussion Zone

It's not about TCP you're insulting everybody's intelligence here. That's a slap in the face to say you know about pain and betrayal over the Hammott tomb esp. because you're doing exactly the same thing as Hammott & co. did.ve even tried to tie your tomb to his awhile back.


It would take approx: 3 minutes to google and read the following. Remember that ... 3 minutes to work out this based on Hoax perpetrated by just another self appointed Messianic figure.
It's even got a blurry photo et. al.

In fact I'm going to make it easier for everybody so it doesn't take the 3 minutes to work out what where your "claims" originate from.
And don't forget Shasta that you came on here, all by yourself and started hocking your wares straight after the admission from "team hammott" about their tomb hoax.

So thank-you for insulting our collective intelligence and thank-you for yet again proving how purile, self serving and deceptive mankind can be. Who would of thought we needed to reminded how easily we can be manipulated.






The Blackwell Companion to Jesus
By Delbert Burkett p. 463

Rain, let's just get a little background straight here, shall we? I was a member of this forum years ago..It was a happy and stimulating place then...lots of great readers, writers, and posts. Although I did not post for several years, I regularly read the posts and I remained friends with several members here. Some of them we have been in almost daily contact through Facebook and the occasional phone call over a five year period. I value those friendships. I once counted Tim among them.

After I published the revised edition, I sent copies to several Arcadia forum members..this happened months before now..There were no ulterior motives, no book reviews expected or requested...Just a random act of kindness to people I respected as friends here at the Arcadia forum.

Andrew Gough spoke up on Facebook about exposing this 'other' tomb thing, whether he should or not. It was at this time I asked him on Facebook and off, if I could make any contributions that would help this forum...about tombs, about the legal status, anything at all. Andrew was obviously upset and I so wanted to be a part of the team that was helping him and helping his forum..

Andrew felt it was a good idea and so I returned and started posting about tombs and anything else I could think of that I had some experience with, such as the DNA...I tried every way that I could to make interesting and useful contributions here..but at every turn, TCP followed me around and pounced on every thread demanding that I answer his questions and making wild accusations about why I was here.....he seemed outright paranoid!

I had no ulterior motives except to help out Andrew because I felt truly sorry for him..

Well, Tim's questions were way out in left field and not at all relevant to me, my book, or any tombs that I was aware of. How could I "answer" him? Further, he made regular character assassination attacks on me. They have nothing to do with the topic of my book...yet he demands "answers"..that are not even possible nor pertinent. Then he accuses me of "avoiding" answering him..
That's just not fair on so many counts..

No, your intelligence was not attacked....however Tim's methods have been...and you have completely misrepresented and misunderstood why I returned here to actively post again..Had it gone more pleasantly, I am sure others would have returned too...but that wont happen now..and not for a long time..

Thanks Rain. And thanks, Tim...Now I understand how Andrew's forum got so ruined....

You nice people have a nice evening.
Shasta

Oh really You have no idea do you.

Rain, are you familiar with any the writings of Saint Thomas in India? Or those of the court of King Gondpharnes, also written in the First Century? They all mention Jesus in India..the article you posted is an obvious attempt to discredit the Ahmaddis....this is very common coming from Christians and fundamental Islamists.. I have seen these many times before..they completely ignore the oldest known records..

The Ahmaddis are hated among Muslims and every effort has been taken to discredit them..and their beliefs.. they are killed weekly for their beliefs... However, the sources actually go back to the first century ...about 2,000 years before the inception of Ahmaddis...
I am going to guess that you are a Christian, that you believe Jesus died on the cross for your sins, and all else is untenable..

Shasta.

Yeah, yeah heard it all before;-

It's Roger's fault
It's Sheila's fault
It's TCP's fault
It's Tingra's fault
It's rs2008 fault
It's Jakes's fault
It's rain's fault
It's Thomas. D's fault

What do you think they have in common Shasta - oh I think it's something to do with asking questions about the veracity, expecting and demanding truth from the confectionaries that plague this genre.

I'm proud to be in that list because I like, respect and admire those people and they've all at one stage or another been accused of ruining this forum - go ahead Shasta whinge all you want - it's not going to stop people using their brains and by now we're just a little more experienced and cynical on the homefront.

Rain, I would not be proud to be on any list that hurts people or hurts this forum.
Have you not read anything I posted above?
I think not. I think you already have your mind made up and would rather die than admit you might have made a mistake.

All those people in the above list that asked the hard questions about the Hammott tomb got bullied or intimidated in one way or another. But when it was revealed that the "tomb" was a hoax all the people that allied themselves with the "tomb" jumped off the ship like rats. (I almost got whiplash watching them jump)
If wasn't so sad it would have funny.

You're the same - you bully anyone that questions you. The thing is time always reveals the truth - most people are steering clear of you - why? - maybe because they sense you're Ben/Bill Wilkinson in a dress and nobody wants that fiasco again.

Give it up - it's a 19th century tomb hoax, nobody cares anymore, I'm sure we're all still smarting from sfx effects of the last tomb ironically that is where this belongs - in a tomb, dead and buried.

And it doesn't have anything to do with Tim's PM's and comments and character assassinations both on and off this forum?
? Hmmm I must be really really BAD.

I am going to take a shower now, and maybe bully the goldfish and make up a great 19th century version about the koi pond/Ahmaddi hoaxes..
You have a nice evening.

Thanks for the racist comment much appreciated.

Woman are you completely daft? Racist?

And how did you come up with that ??

Geesh rain....go take a shower....a really really cold shower...

Geez nobody will work out what you meant by koi pond in reference to me.

Last time it was "flied rice" - and I probably deserved it then (for the fiddley dee potatoes) --- but koi pond.... really... trying to get around the censors are you?

Don't worry I'm too disgusted to keep going - I'll let you get back to your posting Hoax material and blaming TCP for the sun rising in the East and setting in the west.

One last thing - are you going to try and match your DNA to the DNA in the shroud of Turin? because that would be really interesting, well worth the effort.

rain..I dont know what you were thinking or how you made such a connection...but I was thinking about the koi pond that I have----or had until yesterday when the racoons killed off the fish...it was meant as sarcastic humor about me writing another book and has nothing to do with you.
I certainly apologize for creating any undue suffering for you...
See how these things can be misunderstood and spin out of control?

The rest of your comments dont require a reply.

Yes, and this is very little understood or commented on in the west. This one brief transcript from the BBC's "From Our Own Correspondent" radio programme, broadcast in June 2010, encapsulates just how embedded this prejudice is within Pakistani society to the extent that it is actually enshrined within law. It's worth reading.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/f ... 744092.stm

It's also been happening here. The UK has a growing problem with Islamic fundamentalism / extremism, in common with other parts of Europe, and this extremism has targetted Ahmadis as well, recounted in this article from the Independent newspaper. As you'll know, the Ahmadi's spiritual leader, Hadhrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad lives in the UK, and the organisation is now based here.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 12268.html

Incidentally, Sue, my first encounter, as it were, with Christianity in the sub-continent came when I worked briefly in the Gulf, and shared an office with two Indian Christians from Kerala, Joseph and Sabu. It was a slightly more enlightened Arab country than some, and so they were allowed, within certain limits, to practice their faith. They used to leave work early on a Sunday, a working day, to go and worship at the city's cathedral. Until I met them, I had been entirely ignorant about this very substantial (more than 20 million) minority in India, of which these two colleagues I knew very briefly were part. Reading your book reminded me of them.

Well put.

Hi Shasta,

I purchased your book 'Jesus in Kashmir, The Lost Tomb: New Evidence in Support of the Life and Death of Jesus in India' (Second Revised Edition New York 2010) in July 2010. I read it and highlighted those parts which would be of interest to my own research, which focuses on how the Priory of Sion narrative has evolved after the last six decades? Part of my study therefore involves the various 'Jesus Bloodline' claimants who have appeared since the publication of 'Holy Blood, Holy Grail'.

I think it may be worth quoting your book, considering your discussion with Tim from earlier in the thread:






So, instead of 'ignoring those who have actually read it and contradict you', I think Tim may be onto something . This is from page 3 of the edition mentioned above:



Shasta, this is not an advert platform. It is a forum for discussion. Just as you have supporters here, such as Roger, Richard, and perhaps others, you also have detractors who question the validity of your claims. You had no problem welcoming and endorsing the support of Richard and Roger. But those people who disbelieve your claim to be descended from Jesus (or, what do you call yourself, the real Grail Child?) also have a right to express that disbelief! They simply ask you to present evidence in support of the claims you are making. This is perfectly reasonable considering the slew of nut jobs and chancers who have cottoned on to the incredible levels of credulity 'out there' and have decided that their best way to ego-gratification is to pretend to be someone 'important'. The Priory of Sion genre, after all is said and done, evolved and developed from just such a person, Pierre Plantard. Therefore, the legitimacy of the various claims made by you and others who claim they are descended from Jesus IS subject to scrutiny on a forum such as this. You even say so yourself:



Fair enough, I agree totally! So why do you react with such histrionic performances when you are asked for evidence to support your claim that you are descended from Jesus, or in other words, have the DNA of God?!

IMHO trying to shift the focus from the legitimacy of your 'Jesus Bloodline' claims by claiming that Tim is stalking you is a particularly poor show

Spartacus, first, thank you for buying the book and showing an interest in this topic. The reason that answers are not forthcoming is because questions such as yours are already loaded with misrepresentations, misinformation, accusations, and insults. Tim admits he never even bothered reading the book. That explains why his questions made no sense.

Since you already have the old edition, although I wish you had the new edition for purpose of these discussions, please tell me what page number I say that I am a descendant of Jesus and Magdalene, or claim to be the 'other' Grail child?
Please tell me what page number I claim to have the DNA of God?

As I recall,I wrote that edition in the wake of KMG's claims. I was extremely careful to avoid the pitfalls of making such claims..My intention was never to get attention as a 'Grail Child'...but rather to advance the idea that DNA might be the best way to go...and I had no legitimate reason for putting the Project together (remember I was facing fundamentalists who controlled the tomb) except to say that our interest lay in our family name...According to Islamic law, that was/is one of the few reasons they would allow the DNA to be retrieved. So to be very clear, on one hand I avoided making such claims except as generalizations involving the entire family line, and second, I had to make some statements to justify to the Mullahs why they would allow the opening of the grave. It was a fine line, and from the angle of your questioning here, it appears that you think I crossed that line, which was never my intention..

What I have said in both the old and the new edition, is to identify my family line, then explain how OTHERS in the world made claims that descendents from Merovich, Clovis and Clothilde were somehow connected with the desposyni of Jesus. This is the reason for my initial interest. No claims were made....just a few "what if's" to lead the reader into the next train of thought. I tried to answer the questions as though all of us may be descended from this bloodline...how should we approach the research, what should we do to advance the research? That led to gathering the DNA from as many ancient Biblical graves as possible and narrowing the gathered results into some assumptions about the Jesus bloodline.

Further, in your choice of wording in asking the questions, you failed to include the fact that I acknowledged how many fakes and hopefuls have entered this field, and why it is so critical that solid proof be established....or at least the best we can do to narrow the filed down. I don't have handy a copy of the same edition that you have, so I cannot grab a page number for reference, but hadn't I included examples about Anna Anderson and Michael LaFosse?

I became interested in this line of research because of my family name. I didn't establish those links. Others had already done so.

I was painfully aware of those who had gone before and sullied the research. I actually lived at a place where the 'other' alleged tomb of Jesus exists (Kashmir, India). I met people there who claimed to be direct descendents of Jesus. They even had ancient 'scrolls' with a genealogy. We discussed about finding out some day-through DNA tests- that we might be related. We even called one another 'cousins' in a light-hearted way...they helped me and I helped them forward the DNA project...and that's when and how all this started about me making claims to be descended from Jesus. No. I made claims to initiating the DNA Project. Nothing more. However, many people, like Professor Hassnain, jumped on the idea that I might be a descendant of Jesus and released many statements to the press. If you search, you can also find claims that I broke into the tomb and tried to steal the DNA with a teaspoon.!!

The DNA of God Project is not the same as the initial effort to get DNA from the tomb of Roza Bal...this idea developed later, over time, as I realized these tombs were all under threat of imminent destruction by fundamentalists..if we can get DNA from one alleged Biblical tomb, then why not all of them! That's how the Project was born. I never claimed to have the DNA of God.
Your choice of words saddens me.

If you still have an interest, I can send you the revised edition as an email attachment..it represents a major overhaul and may help clarify your questions and their relevancy.

There is no need for name-calling, assumptions, and false accusations, nor a need to completely misrepresent the information in my book. I am glad for any opportunity to help clarify some things, at least to the best of my ability.

Shasta

I'm just gonna grab this in case you delete it (as you have deleted so many others on this thread). I'll come back to your post later...

Spartacus....grab the latest revision! I was still revising before I saw your post about grabbing it.

Hi Shasta,

I purchased your book 'Jesus in Kashmir, The Lost Tomb: New Evidence in Support of the Life and Death of Jesus in India' (Second Revised Edition New York 2010) in July 2010. I read it and highlighted those parts which would be of interest to my own research, which focuses on how the Priory of Sion narrative has evolved after the last six decades? Part of my study therefore involves the various 'Jesus Bloodline' claimants who have appeared since the publication of 'Holy Blood, Holy Grail'.

I think it may be worth quoting your book, considering your discussion with Tim from earlier in the thread:






So, instead of 'ignoring those who have actually read it and contradict you', I think Tim may be onto something . This is from page 3 of the edition mentioned above:



Shasta, why do you claim that Baldwin of Boulogne was 'Baldwin Des Marets'?

Regarding the Baldwins and the Des Marets, my error, Spartacus, due in part to repeating the error of many others..
Further, I should have said 'relatives' not descendents. I understand how this led to confusion. Yesterday I contacted the Facebook website for the Des Marets historians and asked them which genealogy charts I should be using....They did not have one online...
I hope to get a copy within the next day or two..
That's the best I can do for now.....if there are errors, then be assured that all of us (the Des Marets) will make the corrections.
Shasta

Thank you, Richard. I appreciate that you understand this problem so well. The Ahmaddis are deeply involved in the outcome of this research. I know so many of them worldwide and have the deepest respect for them. I could never be a Muslim, but if I were, I would not hesitate to be an Ahmadii, I have that much respect for them. However, it is also a great hinderance to have any association with them when dealing with fundamentalist Islam, who deny the Ahmaddis. I am member of several of their forums, and know weekly of the deaths around the world, but especially in Pakistan, Ahmaddis being killed by Sunni Muslims. My heart aches for the plight they are in..
I got goosebumps of fear when rain started posting Ahmaddi excerpts here. I know that most people in the USA are very sheltered and sanitized from the harsh realities in the rest of the world. That's when I made the decision to delete all my posts and leave this forum...I was worried the bad directions it was going...
I appreciate that someone here is aware of these dilemmas to the ongoing research. Thank You.

Shasta

Better grab this one as well!

So, in other words, Tim was absolutely accurate in his earlier post?

Spartacus, I have no idea if Tim was correct or not...but I rather think not....otherwise the Des Marets would never have made the claims.... However, let's wait until we are looking at the same genaeology charts....there are thousands out there and it is a daunting field. I look to others for the answers.

Best. Shasta

Well, if you have no idea, I'll reiterate the sequence. It began like this:



And continued with:



In response to Tim, you wrote:



So I then pointed out that this it what you wrote on p3 of your book:



Clearly, you are claiming that Baldwin of Boulogne was 'Baldwin Des Marets', and that you are a descendant of the Kings of Jerusalem through this 'Baldwin Des Marets' who you claim was once King of Jerusalem?

You replied:



So, in effect, Tim's questions were completely justified! And it is only yesterday (19/05/2012) that you began to accept that your claims regarding the Kings of Jerusalem are bogus?

Whoah there Spartacus...... back up. You have no right to say that I made 'bogus' claims.
I made it very clear that there are literally hundreds, if not thousands of genealogy charts to choose from..
I do not know which one the Museum and the family websites have relied upon.
To assume that either is bogus is completely misleading. That remark is so unfair! If only you knew how long and hard they have worked to try and make these as accurate as possible.

Any glance at any one of the charts, whether from this line of Des Marets or that line, shows the branches to kings, queens, and princes...that fact is not altered by the use of one genealogy chart over another.....this again emphasizes the need for DNA profiles.
If you knew your origins and family back as far, I'm sure you would find mention of kings, queens, and princes too... there is nothing boastful or unusual about those associations..

Now let me ask you a question. Why would you use a word like 'bogus" in the first place?
It suggests there will be no fair dialogue between us now or in the future because you
have already pre-determined a different outcome regardless what I say.

Shasta