Arcadia Discussion Zone

Whatever the tendencies across humanity as a whole, isn't it open to any individual to find his own path/balance?

Despite the apparent low esteem of facial hair during life, the beard was considered to be a divine attribute of the gods, whose closely plaited beards were "like lapis lazuli". In accordance with this religious formula, the pharaoh would express his status as a living god by wearing a false beard secured by a cord on certain occasions. Such beards were usually wider toward the bottom, as in the triad statues of Menkaura. So prevalent was this type of beard in formal royal portraiture, that even Queen Hatshepsut is depicted wearing a false beard.

A beard and pronounced breasts......reminds me of the statues of Akhenaten with their wide hips.

I can't think of an ancient document where she is mentioned separately from Jesus, his early apostles or the original "Jesus movement". If Jesus is a hoax then MM must be either one of the hoaxers, a victim of the hoax or a fiction herself.

If the standard of being a labeled a fiction is whether or not cj's friend can prove you exist in a court of law, then I would say she's certainly fictitious.

FS

Sure, if they can get beyond the prevalent paradigm.

TCP

To go back even further: the original "RLC mystery" was the one about the Millionaire Priest finding the treasure of Catherine de Medici.

FS

I wish to make a distinction here. Associating the "bloodline of Jesus" with the Merovingian line is one avenue of investigation. However, reference to the children of Jesus, whether they led to the Merovingian line or not, should be the foremost topic of research.

History of the hypothesis (retrieved from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_bloodline )

The 13th-century Cistercian monk and chronicler Peter of Vaux de Cernay claimed it was part of Catharist belief that the earthly Jesus Christ had a relationship with Mary Magdalene, described as his concubine.

Early Mormon leaders Jedediah M. Grant and Orson Hyde stated it was part of their religious belief that Jesus Christ was polygamous, quoting an apocryphal passage attributed to the 2nd-century Greek philosopher Celsus: "The grand reason why the gentiles and philosophers of his school persecuted Jesus Christ was because he had so many wives. There were Elizabeth and Mary and a host of others that followed him".

The French 19th century socialist politician, Louis Martin, in his 1886 book Les Evangiles sans Dieu described the historical Jesus as a turned atheist, who had married Mary Magdalene, and that both had travelled to the South of France, where they had a son.

The Jesus bloodline hypothesis which held that the historical Jesus had married Mary Magdalene and fathered a child with her was brought to the attention of the general public again in the 20th century by Donovan Joyce in his 1973 book The Jesus Scroll. In his 1977 book Jesus died in Kashmir: Jesus, Moses and the ten lost tribes of Israel, Andreas Faber-Kaiser explored the legend that Jesus met, married and had several children with a Kashmiri woman. The author also interviewed the late Basharat Saleem who claimed to be a Kashmiri descendant of Jesus. Michael Baigent, Richard Leigh, and Henry Lincoln developed and popularized the hypothesis that a bloodline from Jesus and Mary Magdalene eventually became the Merovingian dynasty in their 1982 book The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail, in which they asserted:

The symbolic significance of Jesus is that he is God exposed to the spectrum of human experience – exposed to the first-hand knowledge of what being a man entails. But could God, incarnate as Jesus, truly claim to be a man, to encompass the spectrum of human experience, without coming to know two of the most basic, most elemental facets of the human condition? Could God claim to know the totality of human existence without confronting two such essential aspects of humanity as sexuality and paternity? We do not think so. In fact, we do not think the Incarnation truly symbolises what it is intended to symbolise unless Jesus were married and sired children. The Jesus of the Gospels, and of established Christianity, is ultimately incomplete – a God whose incarnation as man is only partial. The Jesus who emerged from our research enjoys, in our opinion, a much more valid claim to what Christianity would have him be.

In her 1992 book Jesus and the Riddle of the Dead Sea Scrolls: Unlocking the Secrets of His Life Story, Barbara Thiering also developed a Jesus and Mary Magdalene bloodline hypothesis, basing her historical conclusions on her application of the so-called Pesher technique to the New Testament.

In her 1993 book The Woman with the Alabaster Jar: Mary Magdalen and the Holy Grail, Margaret Starbird developed the hypothesis that Saint Sarah was the daughter of Jesus and Mary Magdalene and that this was the source of the legend associated with the cult at Saintes-Maries-de-la-Mer. She also claimed that the name "Sarah" meant "Princess" in Hebrew, thus making her the forgotten child of the "sang réal", the blood royal of the King of the Jews.

In his 1996 book Bloodline of the Holy Grail: The Hidden Lineage of Jesus Revealed, Laurence Gardner presented pedigree charts of Jesus and Mary Magdalene as the ancestors of all the European royal families of the Common Era. His 2000 sequel Genesis of the Grail Kings: The Explosive Story of Genetic Cloning and the Ancient Bloodline of Jesus is unique in claiming that not only can the Jesus bloodline truly be traced back to Adam and Eve but that the first man and woman were primate-alien hybrids created by the Anunnaki of ancient astronaut theory. The 2000 book Rex Deus: The True Mystery of Rennes-Le-Chateau and the Dynasty of Jesus, Marylin Hopkins, Graham Simmans and Tim Wallace-Murphy developed the hypothesis that a Jesus and Mary Magdalene bloodline was part of a shadow dynasty descended from twenty-four high priests of the Temple in Jerusalem known as "Rex Deus" – the "Kings of God".

The 2003 conspiracy fiction novel The Da Vinci Code by Dan Brown accepted some of the above hypotheses as being valid. Elements of some Jesus bloodline hypotheses were propounded by the 2007 documentary film The Lost Tomb of Jesus by Simcha Jacobovici focusing on the Talpiot Tomb discovery, which was also published as a book entitled The Jesus Family Tomb. In 2007 psychic medium Sylvia Browne released the book "The Two Marys: The Hidden History of the Mother and Wife of Jesus", in which she tries to further validate the possibility of Jesus and Mary Magdalene producing a family. In the 2008 documentary film Bloodline, Bruce Burgess, a filmmaker with an interest in the paranormal, claims to have found a mummified corpse (of which is allegedly Mary Magdalene) in Rennes-le-Château, France, in what appears to be a Templar burial, supposedly proving the existence of a Jesus bloodline. Burgess claims to be currently working with the French government on a full scale excavation of the site.
Claimants

The following is a list of persons who have publicly claimed to be from a Jesus bloodline:

Basharat Saleem, the late Kashmiri caretaker of the Martyr's Tomb of Yuz Asaf in Srinagar.
(This is the same man who had the "genealogy scrolls" from Jesus to himself, and was willing to come forward with them...and also for DNA testing-until his sudden death).

Michel Roger Lafosse, a Belgian false pretender to the throne of the former Kingdom of Scotland.
Kathleen McGowan, an American author, lyricist, screenwriter.

Adherence

In reaction to The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail, The Da Vinci Code, and other controversial books, websites and films on the same theme, a significant number of individuals in the late 20th and early 21st centuries have adhered to a Jesus bloodline hypothesis despite its lack of substantiation. While some simply entertain it as a novel intellectual proposition, others hold it as an established belief thought to be authoritative and not to be disputed.[23] Prominent among the latter are those who expect a direct descendant of Jesus will eventually emerge as a great man and become a messiah, a Great Monarch who rules a Holy European Empire, during an event which they will interpret as a mystical second coming of Christ.[24]

The eclectic spiritual views of these adherents are influenced by the writings of iconoclastic authors from a wide range of perspectives. These writers often seek to challenge modern beliefs and institutions through a re-interpretation of Christian history and mythology.[23] Some try to advance and understand the equality of men and women spiritually by portraying Mary Magdalene as being the apostle of a Christian feminism,[25] and even the personification of the mother goddess or sacred feminine,[26] usually associating her with the Black Madonna.[27] Some wish the ceremony that celebrated the beginning of the alleged marriage of Jesus and Mary Magdalene to be viewed as a "holy wedding"; and Jesus, Mary Magdalene, and their alleged daughter, Sarah, to be viewed as a "holy family", in order to question traditional gender roles and family values.[28] Almost all these claims are at odds with scholarly Christian apologetics, and have been dismissed as being New Age Gnostic heresies.[1][29]

No mainstream Christian denomination has adhered to a Jesus bloodline hypothesis as a dogma or an object of religious devotion since they maintain that Jesus, believed to be God the Son, was perpetually celibate, continent and chaste, and metaphysically married to the Church; he died, was resurrected, ascended to heaven, and will eventually return to earth, thereby making all Jesus bloodline hypotheses and related messianic expectations impossible.

I wouldn't exactly say those breasts are pendulous, looks more like muscle.

TCP

To be fair, the quote was "pronounced", not "pendulous". This does however demonstrate the importance of reading inscriptions as opposed to relying entirely on personal observation. Even though Hatshepsut sometimes appears in male dress and as the embodiment of male gods and is referred to as "King", she always takes the female pronoun in the inscriptions from her monuments. Other statues clearly portray her has female and the inscriptions confirm the identification. She is even identified as the "God's wife of Amun" meaning she was indeed a priestess.

And even though Hatshepsut never actually concealed her sex (as originally reported by some Egyptologists) she was, at least on a symbolic level, "made male" to fulfill some of her obligations as King.

Father Silence

More's the pity that so few of the RLC cognoscenti take much of an interest in Queen Catherine. They miss out on so much.

TCP

To this day no female gets to elect the Pope
Conclave is conducted by only men


I know a woman who was trained as a nurse by the De Paul Nursing School
She was trained to baptize children in case of emergencies
It was due to the fact that Limbo was where children who were not baptized went
To save a baby from Limbo ...A Labor and Delivery Nurse could baptize the baby with the parents wishes if a Priest was not
available. Now that the Pope has made it clear that babies do not go to Limbo ....the need to baptize is over

It still shows that Women were Baptizing even till the 1960's in Catholic Hospitals

Women now Baptize in other faiths such as Methodist where ever women serve as ministers they are allowed Baptism
In my research of the Acadians in Louisiana in Martinville ...researchers have documented that since there were too few priests in the New World that women helped carry on many of the duties of the Priest until a Priest who may take over a year to see his congregation due to weather, distance, and health

So midwives were baptizing in Acadia
I believe they aided the priests in the Last Rites here in America
Marie Laveau use to accompany the Antonio de Sedella, Priest of the Order of Capuchins
on the dying....in New Orleans

Babies that died without Baptism were buried in unholy ground in the Catholic Cemeteries
Doesn't Rennes have such a place?

You're thinking of le carré des Anges which is just inside the gates of the cimetière, on your right hand side.

I would agree generally with what you said above but it depends on whether the Jesus story is totally fictitious or whether only part of it is.

For instance, there may have been a Jesus, he may have been a leader of a Jewish religious/political sect or even or of kingly descent but he did not die on the cross or was not resurrected or did not perform the many miracles etc. etc..

The second sentence I'll treat as facetious.

FS,

How did the Egyptians rationalize this "cross dressing" by Hatsheput, for instance, what were her obligations as king?

Why call her a king? (Have I misconstrued something here?)

Would you say that Sophia is ficticious? Would you say that she is only a hypostasis?

Perhaps a member of the Trinity will debate with you in person, she is the one you should

discuss - not the past.

The crowd hushes as she lines herself up with the pins...The EPWBA Championship could come down to
this final roll...

This is for Father Silence and also for the ladies who were discussing gold on

the Girona thread "Mr. Lazarus". Hatshepsut does look like a good bowler!

You know, the Hungarians called Maria Theresia their king. Their word for queen meant literally "wife of the king", they didn't have a word for a queen regnant.

TCP

The hungarian language f.i. also doesn't differentiate between "he" or "she" or "it". It's all the same word "ö" ...

In a fair fight I'd bet on Catherine to whip any 5 Merovingians with one hand tied behind her back. And you know a Medici never fights fair.

FS

Oh no, she was never one to allow her adversaries the slightest advantage. She let them think they did, but they were deluding themselves.

She owned a good bit of property in the south of France in her own right, inherited from her mother.

TCP