Arcadia Discussion Zone

Statistical probabilities would concur with your assessment.

TCP

Considering the statistical probability that anyone living 2,000 years ago is either the ancestor of everyone living today, or no one living today, you might ask yourself that question.

Psalm 82:6 - "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High."

John 10:34 - "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?"

TCP

Everybody got that? Anyone who presses an author to substantiate their research with references or to answer questions about their work that they refuse to answer isn't capable of honest intellectual pursuits.

And I'm sure people wonder why this field of study is so riven with fraud and fabrication. Here's your answer.



This quote is from one of your earlier posts on this thread, Sue:

"Now regarding the allusion to "another author" who touted this theme, I would remind you all that it was taken directly from my forum...a place where I freely discussed this project with others...precisely because I have a valid bloodline established back through the Des Marets to the first Merovingian kings of Jerusalem."

Tell us again how this wasn't thrown in as a subtle form of ego gratification. And I'm sure we'd all love to see a source detailing these first "Merovingian kings of Jerusalem" you've attached yourself to but no one is holding their breath for it.



Another quote from you:

"I have been to Washington DC and the National Geographic headquarters 2 times, plus years of correspondence with them and with India...trying to get Nat Geo to take this on as one of their Genome Projects...India agreed, the Chief Minister of Kashmir agreed...but the fundamentalists made threats and the project could not be launched. I have little chance except to keep begging and hoping for a breakthrough."

I guess we're supposed to take you at your word for National Geographic's "interest and support" - and that the only thing standing in the way are "fundamentalist threats" rather than disinterest from the editorial board. BTW, anyone who buys a kit can join their Genome Project, you don't have to persuade anyone to take you on.

And while we're on the subject of the Nat Geo Genome Project it would appear that you've given some conflicting info on this forum recently. Here's a quote from a review of your book from 2008:

Roza Bal - Tomb of Jesus - Book Review by Atika Sadeeqa, December 11, 2008
By I. Jattala (California, USA) - See all my reviews
(REAL NAME)
Razabal - The Tomb Of Jesus: By prof. Fida M. Hassnain and Suzanne Olsson

"In the final section Suzanne Olsson presented the DNA tests, done by National Geographic's Genome Project on her, and amazing similarities with Saint Luke and others."

So which is it, Sue? Did you join the Nat Geo Genome Project or didn't you? Was it your DNA sample submitted for testing or was it your brother's? At the beginning of the this thread you indicated it was your DNA sample, but that claim took a sharp turn when I pointed out to you that you lack a Y chromosome and then it became your brother's sample. What's the truth, Sue? I can probably lay my hands on another copy of your previous edition, look in the appendix, and find out what the truth is, but maybe you'd like to come clean about it before I go to that extreme?



I've actually stayed on-point while it was you who pirouetted madly to duck direct questions. Don't you realize the entire exchange is still visible on this thread and that anyone can read it?



The old saying about heat and kitchens applies here, as well as pots and kettles.



That will depend entirely on you, Sue.



Yeah, all the egomaniacal meanies on here putting the screws to amateur Merovingian geneticists. Poor Andrew indeed.

TCP

I suppose it's a complete waste of time to ask you for references? Or to ask you how you arrived at these conclusions?

TCP

Precisely. However, I would imagine it would involve prolonged and directed control of consciousness.

Sorry, Tim. I have no answers for you because they would not
really be what you want to hear.
What you want is to tell everyone how I "could not
take the heat" or stand up to you.

This is all about you, not me.

I can enjoy others here without answering you or pandering to your demands.

I am making buttermilk biscuits then relaxing in the garden. Too bad you couldn't join me.
You always sound like your underwear is too tight...
Have a nice evening....

Try me.



You're doing a pretty good job of getting those points across on your own.



Funny, then, that I'm the one asking all the questions.



I suppose, as long as nobody else starts asking you uncomfortable questions.



I do admire the fact that you bake every day.



Not wearing any...



TCP

awe TCP...I bet you look awesome in the buff!
I have started baking as a 'hobby' of sorts..
It's quite relaxing for me!
Have a nice evening. See you tomorrow.

Shasta,
I still don't understand - you said:


But what are you trying to prove? I just still don't follow. Surely before any 'scientist' does a test, they have expected results. They are trying to 'prove' or 'disprove' something. It's not just a stab in the dark. So what are you expecting to prove/disprove?

I don't see that TCP has asked any more than reasonable questions so far. IMHO, Christianity has a problem with 'proof' anyway, and if no one in 2000 years has been able to unequivocally prove Jesus' existence, how in your mind could any tomb/body change that?

My concern, an I'm for the 'truth', but you have to respect what people believe*. If you're going to, in effect, disprove a base tenet of Christianity (if not Christianity itself), then surely you must be more than 100% certain that your facts stand up to scrutiny? That sounds moralistic. If people peddle books or movies or websites as 'points of interest and alternative idea' - no issue, but if someone is trying to 'prove' something (which is what you've been saying), then that proof should be open to 'peer review' the same as any other discipline.

*people on forums such as this are 'fair game' and should already be aware that their beliefs may be challenged

Since I returned to this forum, I have dealt with mockery, derision, and questions that are impossible to answer without reprinting the entire book here..many of the questions demanding "facts" are irrelevant and don't even apply to the book at hand..You want to "challenge" and deride authors that is your prerogative...but if you haven't even read the book in question, if you have no concept the purpose or contents of the book, if you are not willing to do your own background on the subject matter, then you have no right to demean or challenge the author..and no author is compelled to answer fools or people attacking for the sole purpose of demeaning an author personally. NO, "people on forums such as this" are NOT fair game! What ever gave you the idea that people are fair game, as though you were on an African safari looking to shoot down and mount a trophy on your wall!
No one is compelled to answer foolish questions from fools.


Just one example- St. Luke's DNA.. I researched DNA but never came across the fact that if you are in Haplogroup R (just an example) the number sequencing will be different for a male and for a female..the results for a male type R and a female type R will vary slightly so it is important to know which group you are researching under, male or female..in fact it was Tim who found that out through his research and let me know...I immediately corrected the info in the revised edition...thus, the entire question is irrelevant ...had he read the new book he would know that his suggestions were followed and much appreciated. However, even if/when he reads the new book, he will not have any Aha moments...he will have pen in hand looking for anything he can grab to tear it down too..It is what it is...I am saddened because we were once friends....sorry to see it go this way...


I am not compelled to defend or explain myself to you or TCP or anyone else. How about I demand that you defend your religious or philosophical beliefs? A discussion is one thing, but the purpose here seems to be attack, not discuss, share, and learn...I will NEVER provide enough of the "right" answers because that is not the real purpose behind asking...There can be no satisfactory ending for TCP, regardless how detailed my explanations..

lockset, you said "you have to respect what people believe"....I wrote my beliefs. More than once I took a big gulp and made a leap of faith. I did not hide behind the label "fiction" which would have made things much easier for me...My book is not perfect. Every time I look through the pages, I still find things I should change...but I wrote what I beleived and researched diligently to the best of my ability.

I am going back to baking a loaf of bread to go with the morning coffee..

Have a nice day.

Shasta,
As far as I am concerned, I didn't think I had tried to demean and I'm not asking you to defend 'yourself'. I simply asked questions based on what you had said here. You're right, I haven't read your book, but I did read the comments you made here. It was those comments that I questioned. Why is that in anyway wrong?

To me, public forums are simply that, forums. They are where people congregate and discuss - hopefully in a friendly manner. Hence my comment re people on forums being fair game - me or anyone else included. If I make a statement that is contentious, then I would expect to have that statement disected. Some may agree with the statement, some may not.
I honestly don't care if you believe that Jesus lived and died in India or not. I was more interested in what you thought you were trying to prove - and the effects that 'proof' may then cause.

If you didn't want to answer, OK by me. But I'm a bit lost as to why you come on a public forum, on what appears to be a book selling exercise (didn't you say something like '...that is what authors do....') and then object when people ask questions based on the statements you make.


Can I ask what questions didn't just need a one line answer (well, maybe a couple of lines) and which questions you found offensive and demeaning? If you don't want to answer that's entirely up to you.

jlockset......you said this: I was more interested in what you thought you were trying to prove - and the effects that 'proof' may then cause.

Prove? Which point of the book you haven't read do you wish me to "prove? How does one "prove" personal and emotional issues about life, family, experiences, beliefs? That's rather a tall order, don't you think? Take your time....One sentence or three....whatever you feel you need....You might want to consider how you would write same answers about your personal beliefs and your family...your life experiences and your conclusions..

Like millions of others, I too could trace my lineage back through the Merovingians and I discussed the historical background for why these Merovingians were thought to be desposyni...the entire book asks why---where is the proof? A few million would like to know...and yet several people here on this forum launched attacks accusing me trying to walk on water....missing the point completely...so if you sense hopelessness that is why.....the real points have been missed completely and you all want to dwell on trivia that has nothing to do with the purpose of the book...


I think the questions are biased and really not answerable..how does one write a personal 'diary-history' and then be expected to defend it? It is a POV....just like you have yours..however, there were one or two points I did hope to get across, such as the need for saving these old tombs and building up as much a DNA profile as possible...and asking others to consider all possible alternative explanations than the Church's status quo about the life and death of Jesus..

Whoa Shasta,
I repeat, I haven't read your book. I am only questioning what you have said here. You have said that there is a tomb with a body and that there are descendants of that deceased person. You have implied that the person in the tomb is Jesus. My question, still only based in what you've said here, is what is it exactly that you want to prove and what are the implications?


If I make a statement here about my beliefs - or any other statement for that matter, feel free to question me on it.

Here, I'll give you a start. I currently hold that the universe was created. Simply due to the fact that all the scientists keep finding are rules, and I don't see how rules exist without design. I also currently hold an opinion that all is cause and effect - science is the study and understanding of those causes and effects. So you could class my G_d as the prime cause. The only problem with my ideas is that if ALL is cause and effect, freewill does not exist - it can't - it is an illusion. IE I'm only wrting this because you wrote what you did.....ad infinitum back to the first cause.

Not a very interesting stand point and not unique - and I may change my ideas tomorrow if I find something that I find that fits the bill better.


Ask me anything you like about those statements.

Edited: I actually did see a recent (Horizon) program that then had me thinking about infinity and what it implies (it was on its use in maths - and I hadn't actually thought what infinity really meant) - that then made me doubt my 'cause and effect' idea, simply as if the universe is infinite ther could also be infinite universes - and somewhere else the 'rule of law' may not exist. So my conclusion re cause and effect and the rule of law may only be an accident of birth.

Dear Lockset....OK we are on the same page...I asked the same questions as you in my book and offered my answers, which roughly parallel yours....whew! In the very beginning I stated if there is no God, then Jesus must have been a pious fraud...as well as all the other Biblical patriarchs...then, asking the question if Jesus DID survive crucifixion and IS actually buried in Roza bal, what are the consequences for Christianity? For all religions? These are tough questions for anyone to tackle. I think most people in the world do have spiritual nigglings and ask same questions....How can anyone "judge" your answers or mine as more right or more wrong? It cannot be approached that way,,

Your line of approach is a reasonable breakthrough at last! Thank you for your considerate comments...Much appreciated..

What I want to know is with all this baking have you cured the world of starvation and famine, yet?

I myself have a special ability to bake door stoppers.

Hi Rain...

Baking has become my relaxing hobby. I said I enjoy it, not that I'm accomplished at it!
Yup, I know about the door stoppers...have a few dozen at each door now...trying to convince the U.S. Army to buy them as
their new secret, lethal weapons.

Shasta,
I'm not sure we are on the same page and I don't see my approach as being any different to anyone else here. Comments are made, people question those comments. That's simply how you would expect a forum to work. I wasn't trying to judge your answers, I was trying to get an answer as to what it was you were trying to prove.

Dear Lockset...

I think I bristled at "what are you trying to prove"?
Too much of a loaded question....
By the way, Good morning.

Scorpio Girl is a fine baker also.

That's correct, Sue, you aren't compelled to defend or explain yourself to me or to anyone else here. But let's call this what it is: a refusal on your part to answer direct questions relative to your posts here on this forum - statements of "fact" made without corroboration - not about your book.

TCP

TCP then stop asking the questions...

Absolutely not.

TCP

A man after my own heart. I'm listening.

Rain! Stop that! You're encouraging him!
Anyway, he is sooooooooo cute, and I saw him first!

On n'atrappe pas les mouches avec du vinaigre.