Arcadia Discussion Zone

I asked about Liliane and was told that the lady who passed away was in "City of Secrets"

but was not Liliane. Her Cabala teaching were present in both books however. As for Patrice`s children,

I`d say it was poetic license and who knows? Have you read any of her other books?

The whole story of the Jewish Center is quite hair-raising.

The Lady who died was Ingrid, the Kabbalist.

The Essenes used everything at their disposal in oder to commune with god....sound, drugs, art, sex.....nothing was thought of as out-of-bounds. Anything that allowed you to 'see' god was condsidered sacred.

As far as music goes...Rome banned certain musical notes during the middle ages...I would start looking there.

I would think that during this process of seeing god, that all of our natural senses would have to be engaged and tripping.

The Kabbala...Tree of life...pillars....magic...one has to wonder where it all came from. The tree of life and the pillars are much older than Kabbala...so Kabbala did NOT create them...but Kabbala sure as heck borrowed a bunch of stuff. Wonder which stuff they got right, and which stuff they got wrong?

Something else that stands out to me are the reasons for the rituals: service to self/service to others. Shamans do what they do in order to serve others....they aren't into it for seeing god for themselves.

Magic Squares would seem to suggest some influence from Pythagoras....not that he had any mystery schools are anything...

Thank you Renne! I actually read elsewhere that it was not "Lilliane" but haven't been back online to retract my question.....as I was fishing all day with my hubby and my 2 boys. I have lots of reading to catch up on.

I haven't read her other books yet.....but I will. I really enjoy her writing. I actually even pulled up a chronological list of her books so that I may read them in their proper order......and see if that enhances my views on anything.

Dear Roger,

The Dead Sea Scrolls are now on-line. If I am wrong, please reference the correct scroll or scrolls that we all may be enlightened. Otherwise, I'm going with Allegro "Dead Sea Scrolls and the Christian Myth."

So Roger, any particular reason you want to single me out today? Bored? hhmm?????

Edit to add:
....they used long periods of silence too (hint, hint).

The book is footnoted and referenced. The corresponding scrolls can be found online. Everything that I looked up further, checked out. So, that makes him far more credible than you. My opinion will not change until such time as evidence to the contrary is made.

You can throw tantrums about people making things up about christianity all you want....should we discuss the true fairly tale?

No sex rituals? Would you like to discuss the Agape?

You're losing it roger...so sad.

They said he was wrong about the Copper Scroll too. But guess what? He was correct...

So, what name should we call these desert people? The Librarians?

Who do you think the scrolls are speaking of? Someone else? Sure, that makes sense....

Methinks he doth protest too much....
must be something in there you don't want people to see...'cause you know what....there ain't no evidence for Moses either....and I have a real problem with people making up history and selling it as fact.

You are trying to say that the people who lived the closest to these documents had no idea they were there? and had no relationship with the scrolls? Which means that some group just left those scrolls in the desert with no protection. Why not? Everyone had scrolls back then! Just throw 'em around.

but how else are you going to see god?

I didn't say how the hallucination was produced!
(ever had really, really, mind-blowing sex?...uh, never mind.)

Back to Girona a moment...did you know that Hannibal was thought to have taken a route from Girona on his way to attack Rome? (Ancient Roman Enemies)

Did you know that Hannibals family name means "thunderbolt?"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamilcar_Barca

*

1.) Are you referring to the Solfeggio Frequencies? If so I downloaded some of the frequencies along with sequencia - Holy Harmony, Hymn to Saint John, Solfeggio Harmonics +3 others individual tracks.

2.) The Kabbala... Tree of life... can be traced back to the 'Chaldean Oracles' at the moment I'm still reading up on it. Tree of life... was depicted as interpreted from Sumerian tablets.

3.) Magic Squares have a universal worldwide relationship - Pythagoras was an interpreter from even more ancient teachings of the past.

There are a handful of ancient sources that reference (or are thought to reference) the Essenes and even those sources are considered questionable by many scholars. I have read them all and none of them say any such thing, in fact, quite the opposite. Wherever you got these ideas from, they were MADE UP.

Re: Allegro

I must have missed that part (?). It always seemed like a very strict community to me.

Has everyone read Andrew`s latest "17 Questions" with the Dead Sea Scrolls researcher

who used his underground radar at RLC as well? It`s under the "Dead Sea Scrolls" topic.



Qumran in the Holy Land. The Essenes followed the Jewish laws when it came to marrige.

You are absolutely correct (I guess) so, how 'bout I rephrase what I said....
"The ancient gnostic sources (supposedly employed by the Essenes) used everything at their disposal...."

Better?

Let's argue over the NAME of these people, shall we? It adds so much to the conversation. Why don't we just call them "people X who lived near the scrolls"

Edit to add: The entire feckin' world calls these people "Essenes" except for posters on the forum...ain't that some shit.

But in your great wisdom, you have neglected to advise us on what nominclature you would have us use ON THIS FORUM.

Shit by any other name, would smell....rose, I meant rose

There is a theory that Qumran was not associated with the Dead Sea Scrolls,

I know that there were women with jewelry buried there. As for the Gnostics and the Dead Sea Scrolls,

they are not related. There is the Nag Hammadi library of codices (books) which is Gnostic, but that is in Egypt.

The Dead Sea Scrolls are Hebrew and very different. I haven`t read the Allegro book you mentioned, just his

original one.

"Another war is brewing in the Middle East, this one pitting Israelis against Israelis and many others in the academic world. The cause of the latest skirmish? A book to be published next month by Israeli academic Rachel Elior of Hebrew University, which questions the relationship of the Dead Sea Scrolls to the Essenes.

Such a challenge goes to the very foundation of Dead Sea Scrolls research over the past 60 years. Eleazar Sukenik, who purchased the original scrolls in 1947, immediately suggested a possible connection between the finds at Qumran and a group known as the Essenes. The basis of his claim was a statement by Pliny the Elder, who commented about the group's proximity to Ein Gedi, which is adjacent to the Dead Sea. Pliny’s statement has been the guiding star for most of the subsequent Dead Sea Scrolls research.

This thesis has been challenged from time to time but has so far weathered the onslaught. Those who see the archaeological remains at Qumran as having been a fortress, country estate or pottery production site, rather than the home of the Essenes, have questioned Sukenik’s view. Professor Norman Golb, of the University of Chicago, objected to the concept by theorizing that the scrolls were from Jerusalem and had been placed in the caves prior to the Roman siege in 69 C.E. For Golb, the scrolls had no relationship to the archaeological ruins near the caves.

Where Elior departs from others who came before her is to claim that the Essenes had no relationship with the priesthood and that the scrolls do not portray the people described by either Philo of Alexandria or Josephus. Until now, it has been accepted that the Essenes were a breakaway group from the priesthood in Jerusalem. Elior also claims that the term Essene does not exist within the body of the scrolls texts available to us today."

I`m with Pliny the Elder who was an interesting character. He was in charge of the Roman gold mines in N. Spain and the surrounding areas. He died trying to rescue his friend`s wife during the eruption of Vesuvius. Pliny the Younger wrote about his uncle`s heroism.

In 63BC Pompey tried to take Jerusalem. Therefore, the Pompey military/government probably did have recon information on the surrounding area....including the people who lived near the scrolls.

Renne you are going to have to explain/prove why you believe the gnostics and the scrolls are not related.

From what I have read of the scrolls, besides the ones that deal with day-to-day running of the community...the 'religious' scrolls are full of the 'gnosis' of god.

Something we MUST keep in mind while discussing this:
BLASPHEMY is still a crime in Great Britain, even today. Which may cause writers and publishers to be VERY CAREFUL in what is given to the general public.

They say that Qumran was a pottery production site, but that they did not produce the jars that

protected the scrolls? I think that they did. It`s been awhile Serendipity, do you have any specific quotes?

I was thinking more along the lines of Gnostic doctrine, not just the first hand experience of God.

I can't think of anyone who has been charged with a crime of Blasphemy here. Surely HBHG would have been banned if this was the case ? We have a lot of laws here that don't cause prosecution.
Regards
Nic

And lately, here in America, we have a lot of prosecution and no law! <sigh>

I thought Dave the vampire hunter was charged with something like that?...can't remember and I really don't feel like opening all THAT up again.....it's not important.

I don't have anything specific, it's been a really long time since I read what I could find on the Nag Hammadi library and the Q Document...I also tried to read stuff on the dead sea scrolls, but what I was able to find was really biased. That was at least 8 years ago.

I think it was my over-all impression, that the "knowledge of god" wisdom/sophia was the foundation of their beliefs. Everything was built around obtaining that experience.

Actually can you spot in the irony in this?