Arcadia Discussion Zone

Girona is a gorgeous place and has thousands of years of history.



The Cathederal



Outside of Louis AKA the wolfs bar where he was killed.



Inside of the bar....notice the la Sanch figures all over



The house of the Cannons entrance...





The french womans garden







Thick walls, hidden streets.





Jewish bookshop





The tower used to be at the top of these steps.

Thanks. The photos are beautiful.

I don't know what to make of Patrice's book. Like so many others in this genre, it contains things that don't check out. And I have an open mind, but when it comes to things like interdimensional portals, I kind of want you to prove they exist before you assert that they're there and you've used them. That's just me.

Girona was a center of Spanish Judaism and Kabbalism, and later on BTW Surrealism. Two of my favorite things. That seem to coalesce in the man that Patrice says was her lover, Josep Tarres i Fontan, although that too seems difficult to confirm. Maybe moreso is the apparent claim he was Sauniere's grandson. I'm sure she knew him, but I don't know if they were secret lovers for decades. But she says so.

It just seems convenient and typical that he tells Patrice on his deathbed to finally reveal all these things. And of course, him being dead, no one can go and ask him if everything she's saying about him is true.

he is not dead believe me he is very much alive

Oh I see. So he survived the 2003 heart attack (or was that 2000)?

It wasn't fatal, but I guess having one made him decide to confess all his secrets.

How old is he now?

Seems to me somebody should interview him, just to see if he can verify he told Patrice to tell the world everything she's saying is true.

http://andrewgough.co.uk/girona_enigma.html

A heart attack in 2000 was responsible for his next revelation.

http://www.patricechaplin.com/synopsis.html

Later, in 2003, Patrice finally starts to make sense of everything she has seen. Her lifelong friend and former lover, Jose, has a heart attack, and decides it’s time to reveal the secrets he has been guarding from the world.

[snip]

Was the heart attack in 2000 or 2003?

BTW, this is another aspect of the bio that Patrice gives that I find interesting & curious.

http://www.patricechaplin.com/bio.html

As a Bohemian in Paris she spent time with Jean Paul Sartre and Simone de Beauvoir.

[snip]

The "peedox" claim that a "Merovingian Party" was started by Lionel de Roulet ... the husband of Helene de Beauvoir, who was Simone's sister, and a student of Sartre's.

And theres more

beautiful!
thank you tingra

Awesome Tingra
Thanks so very much for sharing

Actually, no, Rog, Lionel de Roulet strikes me as being something other than that. I mean, given that he was a student of Sartre, and Sartre was not known for his right wing extremism.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_q ... n15665875/

Helene married Lionel Roulet, a student of Sartre's. Unlike Sartre and Simone, who wrote work that was critical of the Nazis but were allowed to live on in Paris under the Occupation, Lionel really was active in the Resistance, working for General DeGaulle (who was not exactly conservative, but was not with the Left either).

[snip]

There's also his active involvement, along with Helene and Simone, in the women's movement ...



Weird how your often unreferenced statements like this don't check out. They had a problematic relationship as many sisters do, and there's no doubt Helene probably resented Simone for her greater fame. But ...

http://www.helenedebeauvoir.com/pageID_3294191.html

La Femme rompue
Paris,Gallimard, 1967

'Why have you chosen to illustrate the mediocre book your sister has written?' Hélène de Beauvoir was asked this question in a television interview prompted by an exhibition of her paintings. The interviewer referred to the deluxe edition of La femme rompue by her famous sister Simone de Beauvoir, which had been published in 1967, and which was illustrated by sixteen original engravings. That autumn, the three novellas from the collection - including the illustrations - were also published in women's magazine Elle. The book became a bestseller, but it was savaged by the critics. In Tout compte fait (1972), one of Simone de Beauvoir's autobiographical works, she wrote that the collaboration was something she had long wished for, and which had finally come true with La femme rompue. The short stories in this collection were better suited for illustrations than her other, longer texts. Hélène defended her sister's collection passionately: according to her, anyone unable to appreciate the work simply lacked the intelligence to understand it.

[snip]

But now, Rog, here's the most interesting curiosity of all. Claudine Monteil, who seems to have written quite a bit about the Beauvoir sisters and their involvement in left wing causes (it seems she knew them both), also appears to have written a book about Oona and Charlie Chaplin.

http://www.claudinemonteil.com/lovers-of-modern-times/

Patrice is, of course, Oona & Charlie's daughter-in-law, once married to their son Michael.

You are one weird cat, Roger.

Find me a source that shows Lionel de Roulet was a "right wing extremist". The truth is there isn't much about him but there's plenty on both of the Beauvoir sisters, and refs to him say he was an active supporter of Sartre's politics, which I would hardly call "right wing". Monteil shows that he often participated with Helene and Simone in protests for greater womens' rights in France. Now, on the other hand, he seems to have been more involved in anticommunist efforts after the war, but I think that still doesn't make him a right wing extremist.

Now again Claudine Monteil's work shows they had a difficult relationship and apparently Helene often resented her sister's greater fame, while she just quietly painted and exhibited her work. However, they were still very close and supportive of each other in other ways, and both were involved in feminist causes.

Finally, the only point of the last part of the post was to show a possible point of connection -- why else would Claudine Monteil write about Oona and Charlie Chaplin, if not for their involvement in left wing politics? Charlie was blacklisted after the war, as you might know, and Oona O'Neill-Chaplin, Patrice's mom-in-law, was also a feminist. I'm merely pointing out it's not impossible Patrice could have met Helene and Simone de Beauvoir through the French women's movement -- nothing more.

Now that video made me laugh hard and out loud, if only because I thought it was so appropriate.

Back to Helene de Beauvoir and Lionel de Roulet.

Excuse the Babelfish from German.

http://www.helenedebeauvoir.com/pageID_1885931.html

1940 Hélène runs for a month to Portugal, where she has because of the war, however, remain until 1945. Simone paid Hélène travel to Portugal. She is fascinated and inspired by the new light on the west coast of Portugal. The crystals and reflections of the salt and water are decreasing in their work, then an ever larger space book. Lionel de Roulet, ill with tuberculosis, healed them in Portugal in his mother's house (with the Portuguese artist Carlos Porfirio married off). On 10 May, the day of the invasion of Holland and Belgium by Germany in Lisbon and she comes to meet De Gaulle's personal assistant is Lionel. Lionel founded the Institute Francaise Algarve, with the assistance of Hélène and is secretary of the Chamber of Culture of Faro. Hélène paints a literary and a historical mural of France from Portugal.

1987 exhibitions in Madrid and the Palacio de Fefinanes, Cambados, Spain. In Rome, Hélène participated in the exhibition "Sartre and the arts." It seems the autobiography of Hélène de Beauvoir, "Souvenirs," in which they not only about her life as a painter, the clan of her sister and the many trips to her husband's side but also on their personal encounters with great artists such as Albert Camus, the her the book "Le mythe de Sisyphe dedicated" and Picasso, Dos Passos, Aragon, Elsa Triolet, Francis Poulenc, Darius Millaud, Leprince-Ringuet, Daniel Rops, Renauld, Merleau-Ponti, Giraudoux, René Maheu, Jean Luis Barrault, Dino Buzzati, Fernand Léger, Maria Callas, Jean Cocteau, etc. says.

[snip]

Oh yeah. That's a lot of right wing friends they had, let me tell you.

Rog, I think I may be beginning to understand a bit of what makes you tick.

http://www.publicartinla.com/womens_sal ... uvoir.html



New York Women's Literary Salon, 1975

The two people to the very left are Gloria Orenstein and Erika Duncan. The two people to the very right are Helene de Beauvoir and Jovette Marchessault (outer). Photograph by Freda Leinwand.

http://tetworld.tripod.com/gloriaorenstein.html

I am available to give slide lectures on topics ranging from The Women of Surrealism to Ecofeminism, Ecofeminist Art, Salons and Salon Women, The Re-Emergence of the Goddess in Women's Art and Lit. of the Seventies and Eighties, Shamanism and Bridget Tichenor.

[snip]

Leafing through her CV ... this chick (ok, that was deliberate) looks a bit left wing to me ...

Passionate Sisterhood: The Art of Helene de Beauvoir" in The Memorial Issue of THE PUBLICATION OF THE SIMONE DE BEAUVOIR SOCIETY, Vol. 3, 1985-86

Hermeticism and Surrealism in the Works of Leonora Carrington as a Model for Latin American Symbology" PROCEEDINGS OF THE 10th CONGRESS OF THE INTERNATIONAL COMPARATIVE LITERATURE ASSOCIATION Edited by Anna Balakian, New York University Vol. 3, Edited by M.J. Valdez, University of Toronto, 1985

EXHIBITION OF HELENE DE BEAUVOIR. Co-created with Yolanda Astarita Patterson, President of the Simone de Beauvoir Society. Exhibition held at Stanford University, April, 1986.

[snip]

The Chrysopeia of Mary the Jewess: Leonora Carrington's Surrealist Alchemical Tractate
http://tetworld.tripod.com/leonora.html


Le Bon Roi Dagobert by Leonora Carrington, 1952


Temptation of St. Anthony, Leonora Carrington, 1947


Are you Really Syrious, Leonora Carrington, 1953

OMG!!! Renaissance Man !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROFL!!!!

Roger the cat

Than that must make me one really weird Cat. Did you read my info on le cercle, operation annemesse, and operation gladio.
I know I posted far too much info but in those cases I figured it could give a wide us an understanding the prevailing atmosphere that people lived in and their motivations.
You know the threads where I repeatedly question "why Algeria?" I than look closely into every aspect that motivated the European continent/North Africa and political/religious alliances.
+ Roger suggested look into who was aligned with the Gaullists.
Well guess who.
What happened did I lose you somewhere?
I thought we were going to break the enigma of Plantard and the PoS.
Try defining "right wing extremist, sometimes diplomat" a different way.

Don't know how else to define it. He appears to have been a political moderate, somewhat to the right of his wife Helene and certainly of Simone. Maybe in an alternative political lexicon a moderate is an extremist.

There's very little in print about him, far more info on his wife & sister-in-law, about which there are several books.

What little there is says he was more concerned about communism and the Soviet threat than they were, but also supported all their efforts on behalf of the women's movement, and his politics were very close to that of his teacher, Sartre.


Sartre and Simone de Beauvoir meeting with Che Guevara

My assessment of French politics in the 1950s and 60s? There were people on the left who wanted France to completely withdraw from Algeria. There were people on the right who said Algeria was to remain French forever. The Gaullists were center right, but decided that in order to save France, an orderly withdrawal from Algeria was necessary. This led them to being attacked from the right, by the OAS, and by people like this fellow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Bastien-Thiry

Now again people have doubted many of Plantard's statements but it appears one thing that seems to be true is he was connected to the Committees of Public Safety that defended de Gaulle and his regime from just these sort of attacks, using the sobriquet "Captain Way". There are newspaper articles that appear to confirm this.

If so, this strikes me as characterizing Plantard's politics as center right - not making him a right wing extremist or "Nazi" in any meaningful sense. I think that's also true of other Gaullists, like de Roulet, Andre Malraux, and Michel Debre.

Now yes, I am very interested in getting to the bottom of why one of the "peedox" points out Lionel de Roulet was a founder of a "Merovingian Party" that somehow relates to the larger narrative.

So yes his politics are interesting to me.

I read in Helene de Beauvoir's French bio that he joined the Council of Europe in the 1950s.
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hélène_de_Beauvoir

Well, what is the primary focus of the Council of Europe?

The Council of Europe (French: Conseil de l'Europe) is the oldest international organisation working towards European integration, having been founded in 1949. It has a particular emphasis on legal standards, human rights, democratic development, the rule of law and cultural co-operation. It has 47 member states with some 800 million citizens.

[snip]

What did Plantard say about some of the interests connected to the Priory in Messianic Legacy? That there were people connected to it trying to promote European unity as a bulwark against the Soviets? That does sound like Roulet.

Do you notice any promotion of the idea of European integration and unity in Vaincre?

It is true that European unification was a rightist ideal, but generally not for the far right or hard nationalist right, and it's been one that's been found just as often among the left.

I'm interested in getting into the bottom of all this. And so yes, if anybody can show me how Roulet was a "right wing extremist" I'll listen. But they need to point out why they think so, I'm not just going to take their word for it.

As for the politics of his wife, they seem very close to that of her sister. And I can't imagine he would be all that different from her, I don't think the marriage was like Mary Matalin and James Carville. Especially given that he was a student of Sartre.

Not in this little corner of Europe, it isn't.

It's still popular among the political class, but I sense (or at least hope) that the tide is turning against it. The great thing about enlargement of the "community" is that it makes it that much harder to try and mesh the thing together, or "federalise" it.

I have high hopes of Turkey joining, mainly for that reason.

Wow.... discussion ... and no insults! This is good! I like it!

Your point would be taken, except that Claudine Monteil, Paul Buck, and others identify him as a "disciple". I think that implies a different relationship that just one semester with him as an undergraduate.

It looks like they had a deeper relationship.
http://tinyurl.com/yzumnoe

Would make sense, given that they were married, or in long-term intimate relationships, with sisters.



I said he was not as "left" as Sartre or Simone. I just don't think he was "hard right". And here he is described as a political moderate.

http://tinyurl.com/yl9phyq



Well, my point was not to discuss the modern-day European Union and the politics of its adoption or rejection thereof. We could, but that's not really my goal.

We are trying to make sense of Plantard.

The guy who put this in his newsletter in the 1940s, when it was still a dream.


I think this explains what Plantard and Lionel de Roulet might have had in common, and why they were both Gaullists. So maybe we're coming close to agreement.

I'm still not sure why Lionel wanted to establish a "Merovingian Party" in the 1930s ... but at least he fits into other things.

... a dream known for 17 years then.
It was actually Herr Richard von C.K., an Austrian who started the construction work of the "european house", and it was in 1923.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Count_Richard_Nikolaus_von_Coudenhove-Kalergi

sorry, Tingra, for the turn ...

Great pictures and great posts! I really learned something here...........and without the usual interference of petty insults. Wow! Keep going, I'm hooked on this thread.

Has anybody read _Messianic Legacy_?

Whatever you think of BLL and HBHG, it's a better book, in some respects, and few people go on to read it.

You may or may not like parts one & two of the book. Part one is a view of the emergence and development of Christianity which suggests that non-Pauline/"Nazorean" variants survived in various quarters, notably the Celtic Church (it draws heavily on the work of Robert Eisenman). Part two is an examination of the dangers of messianic and apocalyptic thinking - btw this is a thread Michael Baigent went on to pick up many years later in another book of his I read recently. Here's an excellent review of it, too.

http://www.mania.com/235-degrees-racing ... 17317.html

Part three is the meat and potatoes of the book, for the RlC/PoS enthusiast. It's really worth reading and it amazes me how many people read HBHG but never went on to read the sequel. It puts certain things in closer perspective, situating the narrative within geopolitics, bringing it down to Earth. Plus you get to witness the denouement of the PoS in 1984-5! Plantard steps down! (Until he reappears in 1993, and Sandri "revives" it in 2003, anyway.)

The 1959 Circuit newsletter (quoted on p. 299) states that one goal of the group is:

".... the creation of a Confederation of Lands becomes a Confederation of States: the United States of Euro-Africa which represents economically (1) an African and European community of exchange based on a common market, and (2) the circulation of wealth in order to serve the well-being of all..."

p. 263 "For men like Mr. Freeman, [Plantard] then replied, the primary objective was European unity - a United States of Europe that wielded the nations of the continent into a coherent power bloc of its own, comparable to the Soviet Union and the U.S."

I agree; it's a very interesting book, though I think it's probably not helped by people having to slog through the slightly stand-alone first two parts before they get to the much more interesting third part - "The Cabal" - and especially the chapter entitled "The British Connection" (pp. 299-331). In overall terms the book's a bit disjointed, I feel, almost like three books in one, but full of interesting material.

Scorpiegirl, at the beginning of this thread are some photographs I took when I visited Girona….scroll up to the beginning

Whether you believe anything about the books or not Girona is a wonderful place to visit and I can highly recommend it, the French womans garden has a certain resonance that I cant explain, I would describe it as magical, beautiful, peaceful but above all mysterious. The whole of the old city has a lovely feel about it and the atmosphere amongst those ancient stones is tangible.

when i get a chance i will try to post you some others but i dont think i have any of the oven you mentioned

Thanks.....love those pictures.....magical somehow......maybe there is something to that "resonance thing" with the stones....hee hee
I keep going back to them for some reason
I've not visited there........but somehow it seems familiar

Here's a site worth adding to your itinerary if you're visiting the Girona area (if you speak nicely to the owners maybe) -

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ewing.html

http://www.photography-spain.com/?p=260

http://cultura.elpais.com/tag/c/c6d1649 ... c80c23bc8e