Arcadia Discussion Zone

RM,



I expect there will be more than one of your countrymen coming to Explore Oak Island Days for 2009. I am hoping that Jo Atherton, the administrator/owner of oakislandtreasure.co.uk arrives again so you can meet her and discover what the rest of us already know. Jo is a really nice person who does not deserve the shockingly juvenile, unfair insults that have been heaped on her by unnamed but obvious parties.

EOID is a great opportunity to see Oak Island up close and personal and if you were to become a member of the Society, we also offer a "members only" tour that is far more in depth as we have the time to show it all to you and there are not nearly as many people to deal with as in a regular tour. Either way, it will afford you the opportunity to make up your own mind as to the provenance of the history of Oak Island, whether or not you believe there is a treasure buried there and observe the geology of the place, something you can't easily do from afar.

I have a biased opinion of course, but I think you will find Canada friendly, open and accommodating. I have been to your country and in my opinion there are many, many pleasant similarities.

The plus to it all is that we expect the treasure hunters will actually be digging or actively exploring by that time, at least we sure hope so.

Blah blah, Jo is nice, blah blah blah. You can't see the forum unless her paranoid delusions don't happen to include you, blah blah blah.

I couldn't help but notice that Tank utterly failed to provide a response to my challenge. How surprising. Indiana Jones claims to have an answer but, sadly, an unseen force prevents him from giving even the most basic description thereof. I personally have the explanation for how the universe was created, but I'm afraid I can't provide any details at this time. Just take my word for it, it's better than you can even imagine.

I certainly don't need to show the map used by the secret society to identify the star shaped formation in Mahone Bay. Rather unlikely they deposited it in the Bibliotech Nationale for the public to inspect. Apparently, Jones hasn't heard that in those days maps made by people such as the Knights of Christ were considered military secrets. One with a big star figure drawn on it pointing to a treasure pit would be even a tad more secret.

Jones, you know very well that you have nothing at all to explain anything about Oak Island, just like everyone else on the top secret Oak Island forum. Access restricted to only the most wacky of the wackos. Mustn't let the "norms" see it. They might poke fun.

JB,

Just because any maps at that time may have been military secrets doesn't mean that they can't be found - so use your 'David' superpowers and find one. Until then, you can't prove that what you've found with your geometry is what they found as well.

Indy

Well let's just say it's a pretty good probability that if a group were going to spend a whole lot of time and effort on a project like the OI treasure pit that they would spend enough time to map out the area first. If you want to believe otherwise, go right ahead. I don't have to meet your standards of evidence. I don't really care what a guy who has no alternative explanation thinks about my very plausible explanation. The very fact that you think I would need to show you the map used by the secret society in order for my theory to be valid shows your lack of good judgment on the subject. It is not at all far fetched that a map would be made up of the Mahone Bay area by the OI pit diggers. Why would you even think it is? If the leader wanted to send some men to a certain part of the bay, how do you think he was going to specify to them where he wanted them to go? Was he going to say "go that way for a while then stop somewhere"? It would make a little more sense to point to a spot on a map, wouldn't you think? I know it's a crazy idea and all.

JB,

You misunderstand me. I'm not saying that they wouldn't have made maps - c'mon, I'm not that dense. What I'm saying is that I would like to see one of them as it would give your theory some validity in terms of a connection with Oak Island. And I'm sure that others on here feel the same way.

Yeah well, what can I say. There are very few maps in existence from that time period, from anybody, let alone a secret society. I don't have access to the maps of such groups as the Knights of Christ or Rosicrucians, and neither does anybody else. I don't have any miracles for you. Sorry to disappoint. I'm just a guy trying to solve a mystery using what I have available, which is the few Oak island books published and what's available on the Internet. I never claimed to be a globetrotting professional historical researcher. I think I've done pretty good with what I had to work with. If people like you and Tank want to try to deny me of any joy I may gain from that, I guess it just shows how mean spirited you are.

Indy,

You are a clear headed thinker with not only a great respect for everyone's point of view, but you are very intuitive too.

The great libraries and archives of the world hold maps, documents, diaries, collections, letters, and many other clues that have yet to see the light of day. By the same token, many of those collections have been burned and destroyed in wars and conflicts that have been lost to the mists of time and memory of men.

I am willing to bet that out there somewhere there is mention of the Oak Island project, what was concealed and why. Maybe someday, when someone in the Oak Island world has the time, money and energy to go through tens of thousands of documents written in many languages will come forth with a clue that will tell us all what Oak Island is all about, a map if you will.

In the meantime, theorists will continue to offer their work, their ideas and suggestions no matter how far flung or ludicrous they are. I find it quite interesting to hear what many have to say about this mystery, but where I draw the line is rabid, juvenile responses to a challenge and offer no proof to their outrageous and often poorly researched claims.

I often think of a guy from Nova Scotia (originally from Ontario and long before our time) who had a theory about Oak Island with complicated mathematical compilations to support his odd ball hypothesis. He got his chance to prove out his theory only to be humiliated by the complications of life, very poor research, Oak Island’s history, geological formations and running with more gut instinct or perhaps indigestion more so than real evidence.

Many of these theorists never stepped foot on Oak Island, have no real evidence other than what they conjure up in their minds and do not accept anyone else’s knowledge or contrary ideas when challenged. That is one of the many reasons I respect guys like Graham Harris and Petter Amundsen so much. They will listen, consider, and bring a lot to the table, offer no insults or outrageous indignation and are gentlemen.

You might take a lesson from them, Tank. Yeah, there are a lot of oddball theories around. There are also ones that actually provide a reasonable explanation for why anybody would even have wanted to choose Oak Island for their treasure pit, and why that particular part of the island. Of course, something like that would be well beyond the level of Oak Island groupies and hangers on like Tank, who actually thinks he is better than someone like me simply because Dan Blankenship has very poor judgment in who he associates with.

Borehole 10X, huh? The "bore" part is right. Sadly for Tank, Fred Nolan is a little more choosey about who he lets on his land, and that's where the most significant OI item is situated, namely, the cross. Not much to see anywhere else but trees and grass. Apparently, seeing trees and grass on Oak Island makes Tank better than me in his little mind. Keep clinging to that belief, Tank, because that's really all you've got, isn't it? You and lots of school kids.

I wouldn't take the fact that Blankenship lets you on his land and associates with you as an indication of special status, considering he did the same with Cerris, Sasha Iman and a long list of various wacky types. He let Iman in his house, for crying out loud. That guy is a loon of the looniest order. He could have eaten Blankenship's liver with fava beans. Iman actually showed him my Grail Star geometry and how it matched up to the map. Went right over his head. Look at this e-mail from Iman, 2/12/05;



Iman seemed nice enough in those days, then later he started getting psychotic. Now he's a total nut bar. Maybe he went off the medication or something. See how I put three dots in that e-mail text? That's so Iman can't say I'm publishing his e-mail without permission. His e-mail doesn't have those three dots. Let's just say, that quote is remarkably similar to Iman's e-mail. Note how Blankenship states that there is a configuration of rocks on OI that is way too similar to the Grail Star to be coincidence? What do you have to say about THAT, Tanky? How'd you miss that, bright boy? I thought you were the world authority on Oak Island because you walked around it a little.

Let's sum up. Blankenship sees Grail Star. Blankenship displays amazement. Blankenship produces drawing of Grail Star shaped rocks on Oak Island. Any comment, Tank? Didn't think so. He was wrong about the picture also being in de Re Metallica, but that's forgivable. Now what did YOU show him that produced a similar response, Tank?

JB,

I'm sorry that you feel that I am being 'mean-spirited', as that is not my intention. I am merely trying to help you validate your theory in regards to an Oak Island - Rosicrucian connection. Even though I may not agree with what you have to say, I would like to see this mystery solved, and I am trying to give you a chance to prove what you have found. You may not feel that you need to prove anything, and that is perfectly alright - however, the problem with that is that the only person to whom you have proved anything is yourself.

As I said, I may not agree with your theory, however I never said that you were wrong.

It's impossible to conclusively prove who buried the treasure, until it's recovered. That's why it's called the Grail Star "theory". I merely state that my theory is more substantial than any other ever published in regard to Oak Island, and it's backed up by on-site discoveries by Dan Blankenship. Now THAT is cold hard fact, unless you can point out a better theory. Not yours, of course, which you won't describe at all.

JB,



What did Blankenship find that backs up your theory? I thought you were basing it off the cross on Nolan's land.

I guess you'd have to ask him exactly where the rocks are that are in the same shape as the Grail Star. I'm assuming Blankenship is capable of telling when two things look the same. Maybe his buddy Tank can ask him, and then apologize for casting aspersions on the Grail Star Theory. Can you believe he had the gall to contact Andrew Gough demanding that I apologize to him when it is clearly him who should be apologizing to me? Notice how Tank has disappeared from the forum after I posted the quote from Blankenship. Doesn't seem to have much to say now, does he?

JB,



Well, I can understand why he would, but how do you know he did?

Well, Andrew said he got "a couple" complaints about my feelings towards the OI guys and "they" asked for an apology, so my guess is Tank AND you. Doesn't really matter, because Tank owes me an apology whether or not he was one of the dweebs who whined to Andrew about me. Now if Andrew had specified who it was that wanted an apology then I would, of course, have issued one. I don't think I'll just issue a general apology to the entire population of the Earth.

JB,

Well, I'm not one of those "dweebs" who whined to Andrew - I doubt you'll believe that, but it's the truth.

No, you sound sincere. I believe you. I had to see what your reaction would be to tell whether it was you or not. Doesn't really matter that much to me who it was, I just don't like the behind the back aspect of it all. Them going to Andrew and Andrew not telling me who it was. It all has a dark malevolent feel to it. Sad that there are really people like that around, way too many of them in fact. First they rudely insult the Grail star Theory, backed up by Dan Blankenship's observations of stone configurations on Oak Island, then when I expose their evilness on another forum they complain to the administrator and actually expect me to apologize for exposing them. There is really no limit to their dweebness.

Listen, on behalf of the OI tread, which I value and want to develop further, I must ask that all parties treat each other with a little more dignity please.

Disagree, if that is how you feel, but do not make it personal.

Better yet, if you disagree, then just leave the thread go and let those who want to develop ideas on a theme continue in peace.

Thank you.

Andrew

Yeah okay. I'll just stop posting here entirely, on any thread. Just not worth the aggravation anymore. Mr. Gough asked me not to reveal anything in his correspondences to me. If he doesn't want something known, it's probably not a good idea to write it down and send it to me.

What's new with OI?

Obviously nothing is...

Robert N,



I'll grant you there is no active treasure hunting going on at the moment, but I can assure you, there has been lots happening. The biggest hurdle to the operations now are red tape issues at the Department of Natural Resources for the Province of Nova Scotia. The ball is in their court. As I have noted before, you can read a good reporting on the matter here as written by author D’Arcy O’Connor.
http://forum.oakislandtreasure.co.uk/vi ... f=1&t=3985


I note you have linked my acquaintance Richard Joltes’ web site to the thread and have stated that “The Truth is in here” a very premature statement don’t you think?

Robert N,

What has happened during the past summer and fall is fairly significant by the NS Museum not waiving the archaeological assessment requirements of the TTL. Traditionally the Province was of the opinion for Oak Island possessing no archaeological value and for which it would automatically grant a waiver; but not for this round of applications from any of the treasure hunters. An assessment was recently completed by one of the applicants. Mr. Ratcliffe of our DNR unofficially stated over lunch that he does not expect any approvals until April 2009.

This is merely enforcement (pan NS) of the existing policy and has nothing to do with officials suddenly thinking the island offers archaeological value. I think Federal and Provincial government grants for legitimate work are become scarce for the archaeologist profession in NS, thus it is the government archaeologist's way to get some work for the association's membership.

So there you have it, without having to buy a membership or go on a tour!

You may wish to check out my webpage for all of the documents which totally refutes the discovery legend and which shows the tale does not stand up to close legitimate scrutiny. We know these folks lied, but why?

This has nothing to do with Mormons but rather a community of traitors during the American Revolution and their smuggling operation. Unfortunately the pit's real history was covered up by these folks who used the island for smuggling in support of the Americans and who feared retaliation from the large influx of Loyalist immigrants.

Paul,



Surely you have no objections if a person does join the Society, or does want a tour?

It is a free world; however, why would anyone want to join the OITS?

There is no reason for anyone to join the Oak Island Tourism Society if such motive (or sales pitch) is to gain information about the island’s history or geological knowledge through a walking tour. All of your Society’s documents are of the public domain except your five compact disks which OITS membership fees were used to acquire, but whose general membership are not allowed to see. I think this has become known as your own private collection at membership expense?

I notice you plugging your membership and tour earlier in the thread. This is nothing more than anyone else selling a product on a forum, an action commonly known as spam. I must ask of the change in solicitation strategy by departing from ‘membership dues to petition government’ to now selling provenance and geology?

I must enquire of your new sales pitch and can only wonder how one is able to somehow become enlightened towards the provenance of the island’s history when those present such history only wish to focus on the mass marketable mystery related aspect? When you folks not only have a better understanding of your own local history, but also make an honest effort to present it, then perhaps you may speak of provenance.

While I highly recommended a walking tour, if only to gain an appreciation of the land, the OITS tour (in any form and based upon my own observations) is a waste of time for one to gain any type of intimate knowledge. Is OITS now providing a qualified geologist as part of the walking tour, or is the geological aspect still presented by you?

Once again, anyone can join, but one must ask why?

Paul,

This is your opinion, but it is not shared by everyone. It saddens me that you would take the stance you have and are trying to sully our otherwise good name. Thankfully, as you submit, it is a free world and people are indeed free to make up their own minds especially after they have a chance to review the issues at hand from both sides even.

You are not the first person to try and cast a dark shadow over this group of community volunteers and you have made your opinions crystal clear as to the value you place on their hard work and sacrifice. The OITS and I gave you your introduction to Oak Island three years ago, and like a few others before and after you, you re - pay us with this. But, again, it is a free world and I respect your rights to express it no matter how misguided it is.

More than once you have tried to compare your great big Oak Island files with our (OITS) small Oak Island files, and to be honest, this line of thinking equates to juvenile, schoolyard taunts directed at the silly debate we are all aware of regarding male genitalia. Here is the deal, it is not the size that matters, it is how you use it. Our files are open with some reservations, to anyone who wishes to come see them at Explore Oak Island Days and I can assure you, we have materials even you have not seen in your three years of research.

The files we (OITS) copied at Dan Blankenship’s home, hundreds of letters, diaries, drill reports, photographs, maps and more are closed to everyone and will remain so until Mr. Blankenship says otherwise. The legal council you referred to and their alleged “advice” a few months ago on another forum is not only seriously flawed, it is humorous in it’s chicanery. I will not open those files to you no matter how hard you try to cajole, influence, trick, manoeuver, threaten (yes, you threatened me once), insult or bully, they are open to no one outside a very small, tight, secure circle.

As for the tours you are not keen on, that is fine by me. You need not attend one if you wish not to, that is up to you, however, there are hundreds, if not thousands of people who wish to see Oak Island, tour it, take their own photographs and hear a presentation about it. If you feel it is not in keeping with your standards then that is a great big problem for you. As you are not a member, and an inflammatory objector, I’m afraid your chances at offering a change for these visitors is not good. In the meantime, if you don’t mind, the Oak Island Tourism Society will continue to offer an opportunity to the public to tour Oak Island.

As for the understanding of our own history, and the honesty that you question, that is another issue you must struggle with on your own. As Chester and Chester Basin are celebrating their 250 th anniversaries next year and the year after respectfully, I suggest you contact the chairs of those structures post haste and straighten them out as soon as possible. I’m sure they will welcome your version of history with open arms and immediately effect change once shown the error of their ways and their deceit you claim. You may want to consider not calling them traitorous dogs, drunken fools or any of the other colourful descriptors you have used in the past on other forums. Just a humble suggestion for you to consider.

Tank,

I read of you stilling possessing difficulties with your powers of recollection.

Regardless… I came, I saw, I got the T-Shirt and I am fully qualified, more than experienced, and with 20/20 hindsight to offer opinion on the value to membership and your tour. This is my opinion but does join the growing ranks of many others. Your untarnished opinion of OITS exists in YOUR mind only.

While I notice a reluctance to answer the value of membership question, can you state if a qualified geologist is speaking to the island's structure during a tour, or is it still you?

There really is no point in discussing those CD's as you don't realize what you did was wrong. It is unethical for you to use the membership's money to gain materials of which you and perhaps the executive are only allowed to view, while at the same time denying the remainder of your membership. While you try to deflect my concerns as somehow attempting to view the material, you must surely realize that I have full knowledge of the contents from my notes which Dan allowed me to take. I find it very strange for a non-profit refusing to be open and transparent or at minimum to address the issues and to work in an ethical manor. Your society's reputation is tarnished and like it or not, this happened during your watch.

I maintain you possess an ignorance of your local history. The 100s of Oak Island documents which I have dug up in the Public Archives are clear testament of new information of which you or any Oak Island author did not previously know. Odd that a fellow from Halifax would find these when people have been looking since the 1800s.

Your denial of Chester’s community leaders being traitorous to the crown during the American Revolution, once again speaks to ignorance of your local history. One can easily google the names of Rev John Seccombe and Timothy Houghton and quickly see they were the community leaders of Chester and also the ONLY two people in ALL of NS charged with sedition during the American Revolution. Houghton was also charge with assisting American prisoners to escape Halifax and for providing them with shelter and returning to Mass, and also for refusing to enforce the oath. Another figure was Jonathan Prescott who became the Justice of the Peace after the arrest of Houghton. Prescott admitted to dining with Noah Stoddard and two other American sea Captains in Chester on 30 June 1782. The next day Stoddard sacked Lunenburg with obvious up to date military related information which was only hours old. Where do you suppose Stoddard acquired the intelligence? Additionally, Prescott admitted to sending his British regular troops and militia on a two day march into the woods to cut firewood and gave this ridiculous order only three days before the visit by Stoddard. Knowing how forested your community is, you must agree this seems suspicious. As interesting as that might seem, the other community leader at the county level, Col John Creighton, also sent his British regulars and militia out of Lunenburg and into the woods to a distance of a two day march and also to cut firewood.

It is not me saying your community leaders were traitorous dogs, but rather the official court records!

Tank, I’m sure that before I released the above information on my webpage, you were totally unaware of these folks ever having existed, never mind what they did. Please feel free to offer this information to your community for their history days celebration, I can furnish copies of all the original documents should they require them. Additionally, should they need about 50 documents which speak to the problems with drunks in the town, I can also furnish those.

Your Oak Island legend has been proven unfounded and without merit, just think of how many people you can now attract with the truth and with documents to substantiate it all, rather than a pitiful copout of ‘gaps in the record’.