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 Post subject: Reverse Overlay - Shepherds of Arcadia
PostPosted: 20 Apr 2008 9:52 pm 
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I am a graphic designer and decided to play around with the "Shepherds" image like the Italian Guy did with the Last Supper.

I have attached the image with a white box around the part that jumped out at me. It looks like a man with his head down, arms folded, knees bent and squatting and trying to rise - like from the grave.

This might be my creative imagination but I find it interesting after all the study and theories about the Shepherds painting.

I would love to hear other people's opinion!

Thanks! :)
GnosticGirl

http://www.flickr.com/photos/89773304@N00/2428624643/


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2008 12:18 am 
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Last edited by jakeabf on 03 Nov 2008 11:10 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Hi
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2008 7:52 am 
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Hi there,
I would love to check this out, but no picture comes up.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 23 Apr 2008 8:14 am 
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Hi Gnosticgirl

Same for me; can't get the picture up. I even went through all the registration protocols on Yahoo, but to no avail.

Any chance of re-transmitting this some other way? That painting's been pored over so many times, I didn't think there was anything left to be gleaned from it. Obviously not. You've really got me intrigued!

Richard


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 23 Apr 2008 4:23 pm 
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Hey, thanks for everyone's interest. Does anyone know how to upload a photo into the forum without a reference to a webpage?

THANKS!
Gnostic Girl


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 Post subject: Gnosticgirls Poussin Photo...
PostPosted: 23 Apr 2008 5:11 pm 
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Image

As requested.

Thanks Gnosticgirl.

Andrew

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The greatest discovery of all is the truth...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 24 Apr 2008 6:57 am 
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Gnosticgirl

That's superb! Very, very interesting. It definitely looks like a figure - you can even just about make out a couple of eyes, and there's something lion-like about the head. It's like it's human, but not quite human.

Great work!

Richard


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 Post subject: A Rorschach?
PostPosted: 02 May 2008 8:15 pm 
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richard.webster wrote:
It definitely looks like a figure - you can even just about make out a couple of eyes, and there's something lion-like about the head. It's like it's human, but not quite human.


It sounds like you're describing the main part of the image, but Gnosticgirl was describing the smaller part of the image, within the white box. I can see the little apparent image of a sitting human, viewed from the back. It's cute, but as she says, creative imagination, which is fun.

Both "images" are the effect that often occurs when reworking images to mirror-image them, such as Rorschach images--since the human face and body are symmetrical, and we tend to see faces (and sometimes bodies) in otherwise random blotches, especially when symmetrical, we see these things here.


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 Post subject: The Image
PostPosted: 03 May 2008 7:47 pm 
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I appreciate the comments about the image that I made with the reversing of The Shepherds image. I realize it might be like the psychologists ink blot test, you can see what you want. I was just curious knowing the history of the painting and speculation then I came up with a figure who looks like it is rising from the grave.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 03 May 2008 9:28 pm 
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Last edited by jakeabf on 03 Nov 2008 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 03 May 2008 9:33 pm 
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Yo Jake!

Your RIGHT! The images were PAINTED not formed by blobs or blotches of ink! What is your take on this, I'd like to hear it!

GnosticGirl

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 03 May 2008 10:17 pm 
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Last edited by jakeabf on 03 Nov 2008 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: A Rorschach?
PostPosted: 06 May 2008 7:07 am 
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johnsawyer wrote:
It sounds like you're describing the main part of the image, but Gnosticgirl was describing the smaller part of the image, within the white box.


No, I was definitely looking at the small white box. I didn't even bother looking at the rest of the image, and I'm not sure that I can detect anything in there.

The image in the small white box is very compelling. Question for Gnosticgirl : Have you detected anything similar in any other paintings, particularly those that may be related to the mystery, like others by Poussin, or by Teniers?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 07 May 2008 12:34 am 
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I played around with a few of Poussin's other paintings but didn't come up with anything interesting. I might try Tenniers. I'll post my results if I see anything interesting!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 22 May 2008 10:19 am 
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I would like to add a few observations to this thread if I may....

All of the paintings that I overlayed are either poussin or tenier, but when I save them, I forgot to include the title of the paintings...I will post the original painting first, and then what if becomes after it was overlayed.

Image

Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 22 May 2008 10:20 am 
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Image

Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 22 May 2008 10:21 am 
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Image


Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 22 May 2008 10:26 am 
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I realize that pictures take a huge amount of server space so if you need to make them smaller....please feel free.

There are many images hidden within the overlays...but it is a bit hard to view them without saving them to your own computer so that you can zoom in and out and turn them upside-down.

Later, I will post some close-ups of what I found...but I have to close everything in order to work in Photoshop...not enough RAM on this computer. :(


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 22 May 2008 10:28 am 
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My overlay of the last supper...

Image

Image

Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 23 May 2008 3:48 am 
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Since the Shepherds Monument at Shugborough is the mirror image of Poussin's painting, could it be a deliberate message that a reverse overlay like this might show a useful clue?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 23 May 2008 5:54 am 
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jakeabf wrote:
A Rohrschach ink blot is a standardized screening + evaluation tool made by initially creating a gestalt image by means of randomly dropping ink on paper which was already folded then pressed down on to form the resulting random pattern.

It was not a morphed image or photo to start with. To call it a mirror image only displays yer ignorance. Its this type of sycophantic indulging in swagging I resent.


Sorry if you see it as swaggering or ignorance. My comparison to Rorschach images was meant just as a comparison. It's the symmetrical aspect that I'm referring to, maybe in not-exact terms. I realize Rorschach images, and paintings with a mirror image of the painting overlaid on them, have a different origin and purpose (all parts of most paintings, or at least these ones, being deliberately placed where they are), and you're right that overlaying the mirror image of an image on top of itself, isn't in itself a mirror image, as is a Rorschach, but they both can invoke pareidolia, even when the person who created the image meant it to look like something specific, since different people often see these things differently.

I should have made it clearer that I'm not saying pareidolia is the only explanation for things that appear when the mirror image of some paintings is laid over the original. I'd be surprised if there were no such hidden images in some paintings throughout the centuries. My gut feeling is that, in gnosticgirl's example using the Pouissin painting, the little man is coincidence, but to be objective about it, I guess I shouldn't make any assumptions, though if there's anything we're supposed to see when Pouissin's painting is shown this way, I have a feeling it's somewhere else in the image.

gnosticgirl wrote:
Yo Jake!

Your RIGHT! The images were PAINTED not formed by blobs or blotches of ink!


jakeabf wrote:
I can't find a single authenticated 'painted' reference on the 'Net. When I used these cards in the clinical setting they came, at that time, directly from the Rohrschach Institute.

The cards we used were authenticated numbered sets of printed COPIES of the Originals. No clinical practitioner has access to the originals, the closet they get is the printed copy.


Wasn't gnosticgirl referring to the overlaid paintings, not the Rohrschach inkblots?

So you've used the Rorschach images in clinical practice? Have you compared your memory of those images, to the ones supposedly circulating around outside of the hands of practitioners, including those posted on the Internet, to see if any of those are real? I remember searching for copies of the originals on the Internet a couple years ago, but all I could find were outline representations of them. I tried again a minute ago, and still found only the outline versions.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 24 May 2008 8:43 pm 
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There may be something to this, but not exactly the way you're doing it. Obviously, in the times when these works were painted they didn't have the capability to make overlays like we can with a computer. What they could have done, however, was to hold a flat edged mirror up against the painting. Da Vinci is known to have used mirror writing so something like that may have occurred to him. It might not be the middle of the painting that the mirror is meant to be positioned either.


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