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 Post subject: Shroud of Turin Reproduced by Italian Scientist
PostPosted: 08 Oct 2009 2:59 am 
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http://www.reuters.com/article/scienceN ... HL20091005

An Italian scientist says he has reproduced the Shroud of Turin, a feat that he says proves definitively that the linen some Christians revere as Jesus Christ's burial cloth is a medieval fake.

The shroud, measuring 14 feet, 4 inches by 3 feet, 7 inches bears the image, eerily reversed like a photographic negative, of a crucified man some believers say is Christ.

"We have shown that is possible to reproduce something which has the same characteristics as the Shroud," Luigi Garlaschelli, who is due to illustrate the results at a conference on the para-normal this weekend in northern Italy, said on Monday.

A professor of organic chemistry at the University of Pavia, Garlaschelli made available to Reuters the paper he will deliver and the accompanying comparative photographs.

The Shroud of Turin shows the back and front of a bearded man with long hair, his arms crossed on his chest, while the entire cloth is marked by what appears to be rivulets of blood from wounds in the wrists, feet and side.

Carbon dating tests by laboratories in Oxford, Zurich and Tucson, Arizona in 1988 caused a sensation by dating it from between 1260 and 1390. Sceptics said it was a hoax, possibly made to attract the profitable medieval pilgrimage business.

But scientists have thus far been at a loss to explain how the image was left on the cloth.

Garlaschelli reproduced the full-sized shroud using materials and techniques that were available in the middle ages.

They placed a linen sheet flat over a volunteer and then rubbed it with a pigment containing traces of acid. A mask was used for the face.

PIGMENT, BLOODSTAINS AND SCORCHES

The pigment was then artificially aged by heating the cloth in an oven and washing it, a process which removed it from the surface but left a fuzzy, half-tone image similar to that on the Shroud. He believes the pigment on the original Shroud faded naturally over the centuries.

They then added blood stains, burn holes, scorches and water stains to achieve the final effect.

[snip]

http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=1041

talian scientist Luigi Garlaschelli claims to have done what shroud proponents claim was impossible. “We have shown that is possible to reproduce something which has the same characteristics as the Shroud,” he is quoted as saying.

Garlaschelli laid his linen across a volunteer (whose face was covered with a mask) then essentially did a rubbing of their face, and then did some aging on the cloth, adding some blood stains and burn marks. The result is a good copy of the original shroud.

Over the years proponents claimed there was no way an artist could have created the shroud and that its characteristics result from a sudden burst of energy – a speculative hypothesis without confirming evidence. It was also an argument from ignorance – “we don’t know exactly how the shroud was made, therefore it was a miracle.”

The definitive skeptical treatment of the Shroud of Turin was done by Joe Nickell, who wrote Inquest on the Shroud of Turin. He has also reproduced shroud-like images using a rubbing technique.

The science of the shroud is a classic example of the difference between objective science and ideological pseudoscience. Scientists and historians who have examined the Shroud have discovered the following things:

The shroud first surfaced in the middle ages, in the 14 century, during a time when many fake relics were surfacing (a veritable cottage industry of fake relics) often used for fund raising. Investigations at the time found the shroud to be a fake. Bishop D’Arcis investigated the shroud and concluded: “Eventually, after diligent inquiry and examination, he discovered how the said cloth had been cunningly painted, the truth being attested by the artist who had painted it, to wit, that it was a work of human skill and not miraculously wrought or bestowed.”

Chemist Walter McCrone found not human tissue or blood on the shroud, but red ochre and vermilion paint, consistent with what would have been available a the time.

The depiction of Christ is consistent with the artistic traditions of the time.

The “rivulets of blood” apparently falling down Christ’s hair is implausible – blood would have soaked in, not run in rivulets.

Radiocarbon dating of the shroud by three independent labs resulted in dates from 1260-1390.

What we have, then, is multiple independent lines of evidence all pointing to a 14th century forgery. Specifically, the carbon dating points to the same period of time as when the shroud first appears, a period of time rife with fake shrouds and other relics, and consistent with the materials and artistic traditions evident in the shroud. This is a remarkable consilience of evidence.

However, evidence will not end a public controversy where there are strongly held emotional beliefs. So-called “shroud scientists” have tried to dispute this evidence. Working backward from their desired result (that the shroud is the genuine burial shroud of Christ) they have tried to dispute every claim in a series of special pleading. For example, they claim that the carbon dating is inaccurate because of contamination. Contamination may alter carbon dating, but the shroud would have to be dripping with it in order for the date to be as far off as they claim it was. And it would have been a terrible coincidence if the contamination put off the date the exact amount to align with the date of the confessed forgery.

Garlaschelli’s efforts are interesting, if they hold up, and his claims are highly plausible and consistent with the efforts of others. He recognizes, however, that it won’t end the controversy.

If they don’t want to believe carbon dating done by some of the world’s best laboratories they certainly won’t believe me,” he said.

[snip]

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 Post subject: Re: Shroud of Turin Reproduced by Italian Scientist
PostPosted: 08 Oct 2009 1:56 pm 
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I'm on other forums and email lists besides the PoS list. And no, I didn't see it there first.

It also was in my newspaper, the Miami Herald. Happens when things go out on the AP wire. :D

P.S. The non crossposting rule only applies to material originating from subscribers, not when they repost stuff they already found from elsewhere.

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 Post subject: Re: Shroud of Turin Reproduced by Italian Scientist
PostPosted: 08 Oct 2009 3:05 pm 
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I don't know, Roger.

Behave like a normal adult, and tell me what you think is wrong with the story. Guessing games are not my favorites, as you've seen.

Normal adults, when they see something they think is incorrect, point out what's incorrect, and why they think so.

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 Post subject: Death Certificate of Jesus?
PostPosted: 24 Nov 2009 2:08 pm 
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An article on a new book by Barbara Frale which explains how she believes she has found writing on the Shroud which identifies the image -

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... hroud.html

I found the reference to this discovery on Andre Douzet's Perillos.com forum which has other/more info -

http://religions.blog.lenouvelliste.ch/ ... nt-suaire/

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 Post subject: Re: Shroud of Turin Reproduced by Italian Scientist
PostPosted: 15 Dec 2009 7:57 pm 
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Not related to the above but concerning shrouds from the time of the Crucifixion -


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldne ... salem.html

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 Post subject: Re: Shroud of Turin Reproduced by Italian Scientist
PostPosted: 15 Dec 2009 11:01 pm 
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Nicole i just got this when I clicked on yer link above...


Sorry...
The page you have requested does not exist or is no longer available.

If you have typed the URL in by hand, please make sure you have entered it correctly, with no capital letters of spaces.

Alternatively, if you have clicked on a link on Mail Online and found this page, please report the problem to our technical team and we will correct it as soon as possible.

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Search www.dailymail.co.uk:

So it tells me that story had some internal flaws and the Mail ditched it, yes?

Now back to Seeker, did that dude who made his copy have access to to an actual body to make his copy? If he just repro'd a copy with modern techno, so what? bodies rot + decay so that dude is gonna have to find the original non-decayed 2,000 y.o body, now that's gonna present a problem yes. Ya see, ya can't just make a copy for the sake of makin' a copy, it has to match the original usin' the exact same materials, yes? otherwise it ain't scientific, yes?

Some think its de Molay but he got barbecued, yes? So, the only way to replicate the original Shroud which has been carbon tested to prove there was a fire a that time, but the micro organisms growing on the Shroud date back much farther. How is this modern dude gonna replicate 2,000 y.o microorganisms on that cloth he is playin with?

He needs the exact same weave, with the exact same original wool, etc. Ya see just makin' a computer model reconstruction is just a play to the galleries,.

Where is he gonna get the exact same original spices used on Jesus? His Blood, the exact same positions of all of the bodily damage, etc

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 Post subject: Re: Shroud of Turin Reproduced by Italian Scientist
PostPosted: 16 Dec 2009 4:51 am 
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Sorry Jake,
It works for me - maybe it's a country-specific thing?

Maybe you can open this link?

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... B.PYFON14o

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 Post subject: Re: Shroud of Turin Reproduced by Italian Scientist
PostPosted: 16 Dec 2009 6:23 am 
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Maybe they were having a two for one fire sale? No, wrong era.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VV2N4KSh3x4


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