Arcadia Discussion Zone

Jesus said:



What if.....the entities we are dealing with are really, really old. Immortal even...or, has the ability to transmute(sp) souls. What would be the most difficult task for an entity like this? Answer: the ability to be child-like.

Therefore, the easiest way to foul your foe is to make everything into child's play. This also completely foils arrogance and people who lack humility....it would be beneath them to view a great secret in such simplicity.

Oh...you MUST be right...I just can't understand why I was thinking there is a connection between Rene and the House of Plantagenet. Gosh darn it.

The most obvious to me is Richard and his family.
Edit to add: (House of Anjou)

But, hey...to each his own.

Then I guess you fail to comprehend that there were three separate and distinct Houses of Anjou, or that Richard belonged to the first while René belonged to the third.

TCP

My bad, I thought the first and third houses were somehow related.
(They are in my genealogy anyway.)

Only through female lines...
oh, so they are family then...good, I thought maybe I was trippin' or something.

...in the Capetian toyal house, there's no direct line of inheritance. The English Plantagenets lost Anjou to the French Crown in 1214 and it was given by Louis IX to his brother Charles (later Charles I of Naples), the progenitor of the Second House of Anjou, in 1246. It came back to the Crown in the dowry of Charles' granddaughter Marguerite in 1290, and was re-granted in 1360 by Jean II to his second son Louis, the progenitor of the Third House. René was Louis' grandson.

TCP

HOLY GRAIL: IS THIS SIMPLE CHALICE, FOUND IN LINCOLN, REALLY THE ONE USED BY CHRIST?

What does inheritance have to do with being related? Or maybe only men are allowed to claim royal ancestors????? I don't understand what you are trying to prove.

Did they have relatives in common? Yes, but then again both men were similarly related to all of Europe's royals in their respective time periods, and in most cases, to much closer degrees.

This is my point exactly. Who would know more about the royals than the royals themselves? Only they would know the strange family stories passed from generation to generation...whispered of in private suites and laughed about by the children....the crazy old aunt....

Rene, it would seem, was fascinated with the Grail stories. And why wouldn't he be? He probably had reason to believe that some of the characters were family members.

So let me ask you - how much do you know about each of your 4,096 10th great-grandparents? Personal anecdotes, family legends, etc.? And what about the 2,046 direct ancestors who stand between you and those 10th generation ancestors? Or all of their siblings, cousins, etc? Probably not a lot, no one could. We learn about the most famous, the stand-outs, and for the most part they're more recent relatives. But what if all of your 6,142 direct ancestors in this equation were royalty, "famous" in their own right? That's a lot to keep track of. I use a database that gives me 56 generations on my father's side
only that stops at ancestor # 57,857,504,575,569, although only 4,928 of those can be identified by name and there's a ton of generational duplication. Still, I've never heard of 99.999999% of those who can be identified.



And why, precisely, would René equate Richard with the Grail legends? What role did Richard play, historically speaking? Or narratively? The Grail stories were incredibly popular literature, and long before René's time. How can one surmise that his interest was not simply in popular literature, but in speculative ancestral roles?

TCP

So let me ask you - how much do you know about each of your 4,096 10th great-grandparents? Personal anecdotes, family legends, etc.? And what about the 2,046 direct ancestors who stand between you and those 10th generation ancestors? Or all of their siblings, cousins, etc? Probably not a lot, no one could. We learn about the most famous, the stand-outs, and for the most part they're more recent relatives. But what if all of your 6,142 direct ancestors in this equation were royalty, "famous" in their own right? That's a lot to keep track of. I use a database that gives me 56 generations on my father's side only that stops at ancestor # 57,857,504,575,569, although only 4,928 of those can be identified by name and there's a ton of generational duplication. Still, I've never heard of 99.999999% of those who can be identified.



And why, precisely, would René equate Richard with the Grail legends? What role did Richard play, historically speaking? Or narratively? The Grail stories were incredibly popular literature, and long before René's time. How can one surmise that his interest was not simply in popular literature, but in speculative ancestral roles?

TCP

1The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

2Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren;

3And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram;

4And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon;

5And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse;

6And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias;

7And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa;

8And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias;

9And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias;

10And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias;

11And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:

12And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel;

13And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor;

14And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud;

15And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob;

16And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

17So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.

18Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

19Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily.

20But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

22Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

23Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

24Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:

25And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

1And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

2And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.

3And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,

4As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.

5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

6And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

7And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

8And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

9And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.

10This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

11And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

12And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

13He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

14And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

15And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.

16And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.

17Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?

18And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee!

19And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.

20And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

21But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

22And he left off talking with him, and God went up from Abraham.

PROTOCOL No. 24

1. I pass now to the method of confirming the dynastic roots of King David to the last strata of the earth.

2. This confirmation will first and foremost be included in that which to this day has rested the force of conservatism by our learned elders of the conduct of the affairs of the world, in the directing of the education of thought of all humanity.

3. Certain members of the seed of David will prepare the kings and their heirs, selecting not by right of heritage but by eminent capacities, inducting them into the most secret mysteries of the political, into schemes of government, but providing always that none may come to knowledge of the secrets. The object of this mode of action is that all may know that government cannot be entrusted to those who have not been inducted into the secret places of its art ....

4. To these persons only will be taught the practical application of the aforenamed plans by comparison of the experiences of many centuries, all the observations on the politico-economic moves and social sciences - in a word, all the spirit of laws which have been unshakably established by nature herself for the regulation of the relations of humanity.

5. Direct heirs will often be set aside from ascending the throne if in their time of training they exhibit frivolity, softness and other qualities that are the ruin of authority, which render them incapable of governing and in themselves dangerous for kingly office.

6. Only those who are unconditionally capable for firm, even if it be to cruelty, direct rule will receive the reins of rule from our learned elders.

7. In case of falling sick with weakness of will or other form of incapacity. kings must by law hand over the reins of rule to new and capable hands.

8. The king's plan of action for the current moment, and all the more so for the future, will be unknown, even to those who are called his closest counselors.
KING OF THE JEWS

9. Only the king and the three who stood sponsor for him will know what is coming.

10. In the person of the king who with unbending will is master of himself and of humanity all will discern as it were fate with its mysterious ways. None will know what the king wishes to attain by his dispositions, and therefore none will dare to stand across an unknown path.

11. It is understood that the brain reservoir of the king must correspond in capacity to the plan of government it has to contain. It is for this reason that he will ascend the throne not otherwise than after examination of his mind by the aforesaid learned elders.

12. That the people may know and love their king, it is indispensable for him to converse in the market-places with his people. This ensures the necessary clinching of the two forces which are now divided one from another by us by the terror.

13. This terror was indispensable for us till the time comes for both these forces separately to fall under our influence.

14. The king of the Jews must not be at the mercy of his passions, and especially of sensuality: on no side of his character must he give brute instincts power over his mind. Sensuality worse than all else disorganizes the capacities of the mind and clearness of views, distracting the thoughts to the worst and most brutal side of human activity.

15. The prop of humanity in the person of the supreme lord of all the world of the holy seed of David must sacrifice to his people all personal inclinations.

16. Our supreme lord must be of an exemplary irreproachability.

Signed by the representative of
Sion, of the 33rd Degree

The fact still remains that I know a great deal more about MY family than I do about YOURS. You just want to argue.

Did I say that Rene equated Richard with the Grail legends?...no I did NOT. You assume too much and put words in my mouth...would it be too impolite to ask you to quit?

Actually, I've "learned" that none of it matters anyway, as it's all a completely fake exercise in ego-stroking, this European Aristocracy Genealogy fraud. I know because a "real scholar" and fake pastor told me so!

Actually, I've "learned" that none of it matters anyway, as it's all a completely fake exercise in ego-stroking, this European Aristocracy Genealogy fraud. I know because a "real scholar" and fake pastor told me so!

Oh Roscoe
OMG I love those pictures of Merlin's tomb and Hotes Vivien
they were lovers
Merlin and Vivien
what kind of stone are they

the love story of Merlin and Vivien Lady of the Lake

Merlin asks for Excaliber and she tells him
It can only be used for a good cause

Merlin placed the sword in the stone
and waited for the right man to pull it out

where Merlin met his beloved fairy Viviane and where Viviane finally imprisoned Merlin in 9 magical circles "as intangible as air but as hard as rock" in order to be with the magician for ever
the girl just didn't want him to get away and he didn't want to get away
what a love story

there is that number nine
Nine Templars

I have zero interest in your family. Perhaps I just want you to be clear. If you are uncomfortable with questions, maybe you should reconsider your participation.



Quit pressing you when you back yourself into uncomfortable corners? No, I will not.

You prattle on about the "most obvious" relationship between René and the Plantagenets, throw Richard in as an example, and wax philosophical about René's fascination with the Grail myths. The you go apoplectic when someone calls you out on your flawed reasoning because you've made a fool of yourself for the umpteenth time.

Not my problem, Dip. Think (or better yet, verify) before you hit "send"...

TCP