Arcadia Discussion Zone

Simply this my dear Watson er um, Sheila. When Brian Sykes found a perfect DNA match 'tween Otzi the Austrian iceman + his Irish lab tech, the intrepid Germans made a helluva a documentary 'boot who this Otzi dude was. He was no itinerant Ice Age hunter. He was for that point in time a rich merchant traversing his domain and was ambushed.

This same Otzi left his DNA in 1,000s of families in the Tyrol, both sides of it. The redhair part of the mystery was traced back to Otzi's semitic-hebraic source, via DNA. How else could this essentially semitic-hebraic trait end up in the Alps? The 1st Diaspora is the likely reason. Celtic saturation with matrilineal semitic-hebraic genotypes, to be more specific.

I mentioned way back when how offspring of fertile, fecund female semitic-hebraics were interbred with the tribal structures that sequestered them spread their semiitic-hebraic traits to waves of migrations that swept into Europe shortly after the 1st Diaspora.

The traditional theory of red hair coming to Europe via the Med, Spain to Ireland, then to Scandinavia also had a parallel route with the tribal migrations, yes? Why else was the core area of what is Russia today,called the Rus, the red haired ones. This also occurred after the 2 Diaspora's. Simultaneously, the rabbinate has traced a semitic-hebraic chain of isolated tribes all the way across Asia to Japan. The Shinto ceremonies are an almost exact copy of 1st Diaspora era semitic-hebraic traditions,

So now we get back to Scottish red hair that was intro'd there by Irish Tuathae Danae. These Tribe of Dan dudes were bonafide Jews IMHO. The only thing missing was missus Dan, if ya get my drift. Yer only Jewish if the matrilineal factor is present. If its only patrilineal, yer just a 1/2 breed, the other 1/2 of the breed can happen when ever a red haired jewish gal shows up to make things kosher.

Its this aspect I have yet to sort out in my own graal search, am I just a patrilineal 1/2 breed from my dad's side, or bonafide from my mom's side. That's where Sykes comes in. Once he can fine tune a semitic-hebraic matrilineal mitochondria screen he will be doin' the world a huge favor, yes? This would solve lots of doubt in folks' mind. If it turns out that what is taken for European haplotypes is this unique semitic-hebraic genotype, that would automagically make all folks the world over with this specific genotype, Jews.

IMHO, That is what will be eventually discovered and verified. IMHO, all things 'Celtic' are actually all things Semitic-hebraic.

uh Roger, in the ghetto there is a big difference 'tween uptown + downtown, so which ghetto did ya 'hang in?

Sheila, I found several links pertaining to Otzi and none of them mention Sykes or his 7 Daughters of Eve text, which I find to be rather startling.

Here are some for starters...
http://www.dangerous.co.uk/programmes/p ... e_otzi.asp
http://www2b.abc.net.au/science/k2/stn/ ... 83588.shtm
http://anthropology.net/2009/07/21/otzi ... n-in-fire/
http://www.articlesbase.com/nature-arti ... 43440.html
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread443475/pg1
http://videos.howstuffworks.com/hsw/927 ... -video.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P85JkaVRoIs
http://www.documentary-log.com/d124-tzi ... an-murder/

as ya can see, lots of spins and none of them make any direct reference to Sykes' discoveries 'boot DNA, the QUI BONO factor should automagically kick in., yes?

How does it apply to RLC?, well take the basic location Otzi is found, compare it to The Pyrenees, then factor in human migratory patterns. Who was the hunter, who was the hunted? Whole tribes don't just pick and move just on a whim of a shaman, do they?

1st Diaspora semitic-hebraics certainly didn't move voluntarily, nor did the 2nd or 3rd Diaspora as well. They were forced out each time. Folk were essentially nomadic in a limited territorial sense 'cuz they needed pasture for their herds, yes? Once agricultural became seasonal, the wandering bit was done by folk with a less fixated notion of territoriosity, to coin a term. A case in point, just look at how Lapps of Scandinavia still migrate with herds of reindeer. Eskimos fit into this nomadic search for food, yes?

Wandering tribal elements that encountered other wandering tribal elements way back when in antiquity had 1 of 2 choices, yes? fight or amalgamate. This spread the DNA of each group, yes? Its extremely rare to find isolated folk clusters today that have been spared this blending process, yes?

Roger, how canny of ya. I was savin' that link for another take, like I said great genius' think alike, yes? Now for some other funsy looks at what other folks do in their own graal searches....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healt ... -says.html

ever heard of a dutch treat before, roger?... hehehe...aka... goin' dutch...If France can't help ya, the dutch can.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldne ... t-die.html

after all Roger, ya know how much the UK adore all things French, yes?...
http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life ... 055792.ece

care to switch places with these folks, Roger?... it'd be mighty Christian of ya...
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10068/1041225-28.stm

for quite a few folks on the planet, this is a graaal search ,yes?...
http://www.rense.com/general90/busi.htm

I hadn't intended to set it up in this manner, but they definitely lend themself to this search 'thang', yes?

Because of the above events, it is easy for me to believe that Mary M. would fear for her life, which is of course why her and 13 others fled to Gaul. There is an actual record of this in the Vatican Library, within a 12 volumn history of the church written by Cardinal Baroness in the early 17th century, also listing the 13 with her. One of the 13 was supposedly an egyptian child
named Marcella, who was supposed to be a maid to the Bethany sisters, as there was no other Mary in the boat that would qualifiy as a sister to Martha, it is quite clear this sister would have been Mary Magdalene. The date was given as 42, which would make any child of Mary's and Jesus between 6 and 12, depending on the actual date of the crucifixion, assuming of course she had been pregnant at the time. As many legends have Mary and her uncle Joesph of Arimathea first fleeing to Egypt and then to Gaul, does it not make sense that this egyptian (she would have been born in Egypt) girl could be Mary's child.
The others named in the boat by Baroness were, Joesph of Arimathea, Mary the wife of Cleopas, Martha, Lazarus, Eutropius, Salome, Clean, Saturninus, Maximun, Martial, Truphimus, Sidonis, and of course the already mentioned Mary Magdalene and the maid Marcella. With this account plus all the legendary accounts of the same happening, with slightly different dates and some having Marcella named Sarah, it is hard to believe it didn't happen. Cardinal Baroness certainly wouldn't have written a history based only on legends. Oh, I forgot to mention at the time he was the curator of the Vatican Library. Think of all the information he had available to him---Bill

It is true that Cardinal Baroness would have used some information garnered from "The Golden Legend", but "the GL" is much more then merely a book of legends. The RCC basis much of their history of the church on it. My point is that whatever source Baroness used would have been acknowledged by the vatican, which in turn should mean the church today would except this history. Of course we know the RCC today denies this event happened. Another point this story makes (remember it is a history the church excepts) is the oneness of Mary Magdalene and Mary of Bethany.---Bill

btw, the original definition of legend was "the true stories of saintes" (e.g. The Golden Legend), at least until the 17th century. It was through the efforts of the churchs of the reformation that the meaning was eventually changed to "a story regarded as historical, but not verifiable".---Bill

whether it is true or not
there is MORE evidence of the French oral tradition

this evidence shows that the Roman Church knew about the legends or documentation
but suppressed this legend

we wouldn't have even known about it if it wasn't for the French Church placing their legend in their churches

it followed to the churches in the New World too
I have been watching the change since the French oral tradition has been given new life
and now the church is acknowledging more and more that it existed
WHY because the more they resisted ...the more it was obvious they were suppressing it

the Holy Grail concept has a legend for its basis ...and oral tradition passed on generation after generation
It connected Jesus to them through blood ...


and they believed it

Very interesting Lovuian

I am sure you have seen the stained glass window in Kilmore Church, Dervaig, Scotland. This window shows a pregant Mary Magdalene holding hands with Jesus. We know she is The Magdalene because of the inscription under the two from the gospel of Luke that identifies her as Mary of Bethany. This window Dating from 1906 (long before the current run of, Mary Magdalene, bride of Christ stories), had been produced by Scottish stained glass artist "Stephen Adams.
I contacted the Pastor of that little church "Robert Nelson",to get his opinion of that window and he told me that neither him, nor his congregation accept that Jesus was married, and therefore do not believe that this window represents a pregnant Mary of Bethany.
I had thought it would be interesting to contact a member or two of this Parish and ask for their own view, something I have not done as of yet. But their can be no doubt that "Adams" did intend to show her as pregnant, and the holding of hands and positions of the two indicates much more then just two friends walking together.---Bill

I thought that particular window was depicting a local woman who died in childbirth? I could be wrong though as I can't find the references?
Regards
Nic

No Nic, it definitely represents Mary of Bethany, even Robert Nelson the pastor says that. Of course that parish does not accept that Mary of Bethany and The Magdalene were the same person,which means Mary of Bethany is shown as pregnant with Jesus child. It was commissioned in memory of a woman who had died in the congregation, maybe thats where the confusion comes in.

Roger, If you have some criticism why don't you explain it, rather then continue with your constant childish jibberish.

Roger, I do not understand your point.1, The window by Stephen Adam is without a doubt Mary of Bethany. There is an inscription from the Gospel of Luke on the window that proves that. Also the pastor of the church Robert Nelson himself told me that is what is represented.

2, The woman is pregnant, anybody looking at the picture can tell you that, although Mr. Nelson says they do not believe that is what is represented, it is obvious. For what ever reason Stephen had created an image of a pregnant woman. This is the reason I would like to ask some members of the congregation what they think, as I know what a priest or pastor would have to say.

3, The man holding hands with the woman represents Jesus, complete with Halo. Robert Nelson also confirms this. His answer is that Mary of Bethany and Jesus were good friends, but in fact they are not simply holding hands, the expressions and the way they are together is indicative of a deep love. Something that is hard to find in todays world.

4, Mary of Bethany is the same person as the Magdalene in scripture. I can show this again and again to any unbiased observer. If you want to discuss that I am always ready.

My point is, that I do not know how your salt ham analogy applies to this.---Bill

Hi Wayward,
What are your views on this?
"Adorning the Bloodline poster is an image known and loved by Magdalene devotees far and wide - a stained glass window from the Kilmore Church in Dervaig, Scotland, touted as portraying Jesus and a pregnant Mary Magdalene in a wedding pose. What one never sees on Magdalene fan websites - and certainly won’t see here - is the memorial inscription on the lower portion of the window identifying the young lady as Miss Mary Forrest, who died unmarried in 1904."
http://www.mania.com/235-degrees-movie- ... 58443.html
Regards
Nic

Yeah Nic, but actually at the bottom of the window is written a scripture from Luke 10:42, "Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her". In the scripture Jesus is talking about Mary of Bethany and this therefore indentifies the woman in this work as Mary of Bethany, which is what the pastor "Robert Nelson" had told me. He also said, and I did find it online (I will find it later and post it) that it had been dedicated as a memorial to a woman who had died a year or two before. This woman was quite old and I assume died of old age. Dedicating stained glass windows to a deceased family member is or was quite common. It was a way to actually pay for these expensive works of art, but I do know for a fact that picture is supposed to represent Mary of Bethany. As I said I will look up the link a little later, as I have a trailer and help and have to move some furniture.---Bill

Nic, one other minor point, you are using a link thats main agenda is to discredit "Bloodline", I am not sure how well they researched this Kilmore Church thing.---Bill

No, I thought someone might think that. Purely coincidence, it was the link that I had found that mentions the lady's name to whom the window is dedicated. I have no direct problem with Bloodline ( actually I quite enjoyed it ), many questions but no reason to discredit it.
Regards
Nic

Bill there were children in Jesus's family...when I say Jesus's family
I mean his cousins, brothers and sisters. We never here about the Zebedee brothers families.

Here is Jesus with women and children
It depends on the viewer what interpretation they choose

There are good options that the Grail can be a physical object.
The Lorrain Cross made of London Chronicles newspaper of may 20th 1794 is just like the cherrie in the cake. If you put that cross on the coordenates point of the d.o.u.o.s.v.a.v.v.m inscription we can join together all the major sources of christianity that are not jewish, but greek.

Theres some mysteries we must solve -that btw im 100% uncompetent to solve since I dont live in England-

1.- This is very important WHAT DOES THAT PIECE OF LORRAIN CROSSED NEWSPAPER SAYS??? Is it something about the Austriac Succession war? -since the Lorrain dinasty was helped by the Anson family because they think were the real christ bloodline-

2.- Where is the Treasure of the Ship Nuestra Señora de la Covadonga??? -the almirant George Anson defeated spanians on a naval war. The treasure helped to reconstruit the Shugborough Hall -by James the Athenian Stuart

3.- What kind of significance has the Lorrain Cross to them?

Btw Im still wondering if Bletchey Park has another confuse and open solution to this

They should know they were wrong

-The Cyberrmacht

I have written about this before. Sufic material contains numerous references and salutations to a cupbearer. The Grail, as we popularly know it, has references to being a 'cup' of some kind.

Jalaluddin Rumi's full name and title was Sayid Khidr Rumi Khapradari. Khapradari means cupbearer. The young Rumi visited the Sufi Fariduddin Attar, aka The Chemist, in his old age. Attar presented Rumi with one of his books. (Attar had written no less than 114 books for use by sufis. Attar's books had widespread influence throughout Europe, for instance his Parliament of the Birds inspired Chaucer's Parlement of Fowles and much later Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress)

Attar's romantic quest writings were shown by Garcin de Tassy (January 25, 1794, Marseille - September 2, 1878) to resemble the 'Roman de la Rose'. They are part of a tradition predating any appearance in Europe, originating in Syria but probably entering southern France by way of Spain through the Arabs, specifically sufi Arabs. Attar's romance in turn inspired a similar book by Majriti the Cordoban. These are the origins of the grail story.

The Sufic phrase is 'Qarael Muqaddas' and means Holy Recital. In Moorish Spain it was pronounced Garael (grail) Mugaddas.
De Tassy noted that the 'Roman de la Rose' has analogies with two Sufic streams of literature: Al-Muqaddasi's Birds and the Flowers and Attar's Parliament of the Birds.

The 'Sang Real' idea may not necessarily be ruled out because of the 'Garael' approach. It may not be a case of either/or but a case of both and more. Never underestimate the depth of meaning in Sufic literature, all words are chosen extremely carefully.

What a 'cup', a container of some sort, what capacity it might have in order to hold something and the quality of what such a cup might contain is best studied within the confines of a Sufi group which is able to give the understanding and insight into the symbolic framework and the historical context of the imagery.

The sufis do, and always have done, work within the framework of the culture in which they find themselves. So if they find poetic truth in a popular cultural story then they will graft and embellish their wisdom upon it and build upon the symbolism it contains, in order to convey a meaningful message.

When the age of that message's meaning has passed and that teacher has passed, then there is little benefit to mankind in pursuing a fossilised tradition. That was then and now is now.

Happily there is an immense corpus of people today who are self-realised, initiated, at one with the cosmos, who have transcended their own egos, whatever, you may call it. They are working very much within the world but not of it. For the good of mankind. It was always so and happily always shall be. Sadly there will also be greed, envy, pride and all kinds of other issues which keep people apart from what they really are.

It's simple. Whatever you do in life starts with a thought. So what are your thoughts and what are you going to do? Do you want to step into the light?

The Cup = Al Kas in Arabic. Next to point where the Autumn Equinox occurs.