Inside the Priory of Sion

TCP · **Posted:** 02 Nov 2011 6:30 pm

Sheila wrote:

Siôn is a Welsh form of the given name John (from the French Jean).

so instead of the Le Prieuré de Sion we get Le Prieuré de Jean.......Siôn and Jean both sound like Sean/Shaun when spoken aloud.

Priory of Sion...... pronounced as in "Siôn of the dead".

So who are the Priory of Jean.

Welsh? OK, I can hardly wait to see where this synaptic misfire's gonna land...

TCP

TCP · **Posted:** 02 Nov 2011 6:57 pm

Spartacus Paraclete wrote:

Let's be clear, Rob claims to be:

Quote:

...a writer and researcher who has investigated esoteric and historic mysteries such as RlC and the PoS for the past 20 years. In 2003 he became Lead Researcher on the documentary Bloodline: the Movie and in this role acted as mediator between the producers of the film and the PoS. Since then he has continued to work with Sion, combining their material with his own research for Inside the Priory of Sion.

It might be expected therefore, considering the above claims, that Rob is well versed in the basic Priory of Sion documented history and narrative. Yet his 'sloppiness' strongly suggests that, either, he is actually clueless, or he is misrepresenting the data to suit his narrative purposes...which of course leads on to your second query

It seems a bit of a gamble to change details without explaining why the old details are wrong, doesn't it? Surely he doesn't think this would go unnoticed. I suppose we'd have to wait to see if, in fact, the narrative changes. And to what degree.

Spartacus Paraclete wrote:

Tim wrote:

Quote:

Spart, a mutual colleague of ours is currently reading this book and has the distinct impression that Rob is "positioning" himself as spokesman for the "Priory" - is that the impression you get as well?

Instead of hedging about, I'll answer honestly...Yes, absolutely IMHO.

But I feel I need to elaborate on how I understand it...

Rob IMHO is indeed trying to position himself as 'spokesman for the "Priory" (he certainly wouldn't be the first however) but I think it is important to discuss what "Priory" exactly! IMHO Rob is trying to position himself as 'spokesman' or 'go-to-expert' for the 'Publishing "Priory"' as opposed to the PPlantard "Priory". By 'Publishing Priory' I mean the cash-cow fantasy Priory of Sion, that claims that the Priory of Sion is the pre-eminent Goddess blah, blah, blah and the guardians of the bloodline blah, blah, blah.

Oh, absolutely! How many times have I said that there are too many people making money off of this "enigma" to ever allow it to be properly explained? Very good distinction, Spart - "the Publishing Priory", I like that - it's what I've referred to in the past as the "Hamster Wheel".

Now, Rob's been hanging around Watkins Books long enough to have come by a lot of significant detail over the years - but not necessarily long enough to have come by it from first-hand sources, more like second or third-hand.

Spartacus Paraclete wrote:

And I haven't had the time to read all of Rob's book yet, but isn't the punch line something along the lines of the Priory of Sion being also the guardians of 'mankind' itself!

Hasn't it always been? :roll:

Spartacus Paraclete wrote:

Since I am convinced that all of the above is absurd nonsense, I can only imagine Rob as 'chief spokesman' for a cash friendly publishing world fantasy (akin to being the spokesman for the Order of Phoenix from the Harry Potter narrative). If I was to make a guess, I'd probably guess that Rob is aware of this as well, and see's this as a good career move, similar in a way to say Kathleen McGowan, who must really have known that she was not actually the so-called 'Chosen One' (able to bring instant world peace by her mere presence!)

I'd give Rob the credit for having come by his information honestly - something for which I wouldn't credit Vrouw Coppens. I mean, there's a definite sense of a figurative torch being handed off to young Mr. Howells - and not from the hands of Haywood. Haywood was hanging around Watkins a lot too when he was younger, I'm sure they've known each other a long time. The question is, who died (or got fed up) and passed the mantle onto them?

Spartacus Paraclete wrote:

Considering the above, I'd suggest that if one was to take a look at the examples of 'sloppiness' in Inside the Priory of Sion one might find that many of them are 'mistakes' that 'coincidently' support the cash-friendly, publishing world created bloodline/goddess/guardian fantasy narrative...

Well, that stands to reason. Still, I don't see how the ground is going to shift suddenly due to Rob getting the date of Sauniere's death wrong. I guess we'll have to wait and see if anything comes of it. Subtleties always give way to stampedes, eventually... :wink:

TCP

Sheila · **Posted:** 02 Nov 2011 7:18 pm

TCP wrote:

Sheila wrote:

Siôn is a Welsh form of the given name John (from the French Jean).

so instead of the Le Prieuré de Sion we get Le Prieuré de Jean.......Siôn and Jean both sound like Sean/Shaun when spoken aloud.

Priory of Sion...... pronounced as in "Siôn of the dead".

So who are the Priory of Jean.

Welsh? OK, I can hardly wait to see where this synaptic misfire's gonna land...

TCP

i was brought up in Snowdonia during the 60's btw.

for an example wrote:

John : Johns / Ieuan / Ioan / Sion

John is a name derived from Latin, Greek and Hebrew. There are numerous forms of the name to be found in different languages and it has been popular across the Christian world for a considerable time. In Wales it morphed into the Welsh Ieuan or Ioan. Ieuan often became Evan /Ifan (see Evans) but the popular first name John was also adopted as a Welsh surname in it’s own right as well as leading to Johns and one of the most popular Welsh surnames Jones (son of John). The name John also became to be written and told as Sion by many Welsh speakers which also became a surname in it’s own right as well as giving rise to the surname Shone in some parts of Wales.

Where's the problem..... Sion - Welsh equivalent to the Irish Sean, and therefore a variant of Iohannes.

TCP · **Posted:** 02 Nov 2011 7:23 pm

richard.webster wrote:

Like you, I don't know Rob Howells, though I read his book last week, and would like to offer some comments at some point, once I've been through certain sections again. But my interim opinion on it, if you will, is that, yes, there are some dreadful howlers

Richard, you're too punny for words! :lol:

richard.webster wrote:

those you have highlighted in several posts above (and frankly, I'm far less well versed in this topic than you and several others here, so if even I'm spotting them, then it doesn't speak too highly about the book's accuracy), and there's no doubt that his entire thesis is fatally and irretrievably compromised by his seeming acceptance of what he has been told by Haywood, and other un-named "Sion" sources, without anything much in the way of analysis or counter-argument. For a book called "Inside the Priory of Sion", which implies a work of investigative journalism, very little attempt is made to get inside this organisation, such as it is, at all, and there is also scant analysis of Sion's activies between the 1950s and the 1980s.

I think, as Spartacus suggested, Howells and Haywood ARE the "Priory" and there's not much to the organization to "get inside" of. Gino Sandri is their most likely fournisseur.

richard.webster wrote:

Those are the negatives, and they are obviously very considerable ones. On the plus side, the book does have some interesting parts to it, and some of Howell's (and I guess that also means, Haywood's) ideas, and interpretations about the mystery of Rennes, resonated with me, and made me consider afresh some of the key themes under discussion. Anyway, the point of this little intervention is to suggest that one might derive much more from this book if one sees it less as an investigation into "Sion" (which it assuredly isn't), and more as a form of initiatory journey by someone utterly enthralled by the mystery of Rennes, and thus prepared to put his trust in Haywood, however unwise that might be, and draw upon the ideas of a person absolutely steeped in the occult and the esoteric, in an attempt to help him understand the mystery better. Rob Howells, I quickly decided, is not really very interested at all in what Sion is, or was, but is completely fascinated in what Sion believes, and how they can help him to better understand something he's obviously been grappling with in his mind for many years. One might see that as a misguided approach, but it's one that I can understand, and to an extent empathise with. Instead of calling the book "Inside the Priory of Sion", something like "Interview with a Hermeticist" might have been a better and more accurate title. I'd also just add that, regardless of the content, this is a far better written book than most on RLC, and he presents his narrative in a highly coherent and understandable way.

So let me ask you - is there a definite sense, from what you've read, that Haywood is the source and Howells is merely the conduit?

richard.webster wrote:

I'm sorry I can't offer anything more detailed to say about the book at this stage, because I really need to read it a second time, but thought I would post the above, in case it helps one to find a more productive way of "reading" this book.

Yes, there are massive, dreadful, insurmountable problems with this book, but I genuinely felt there was much to appreciate as well, and there are some real nuggets of interest in there. I certainly don't regret reading it; I actually rather enjoyed it.

Under usual circumstances I probably wouldn't bother with it, but if level-headed people are finding some pearls among the onions perhaps it's worth a look-see. Thanks Richard.

TCP

TCP · **Posted:** 02 Nov 2011 7:27 pm

Sheila wrote:

for an example wrote:

John : Johns / Ieuan / Ioan / Sion

John is a name derived from Latin, Greek and Hebrew. There are numerous forms of the name to be found in different languages and it has been popular across the Christian world for a considerable time. In Wales it morphed into the Welsh Ieuan or Ioan. Ieuan often became Evan /Ifan (see Evans) but the popular first name John was also adopted as a Welsh surname in it’s own right as well as leading to Johns and one of the most popular Welsh surnames Jones (son of John). The name John also became to be written and told as Sion by many Welsh speakers which also became a surname in it’s own right as well as giving rise to the surname Shone in some parts of Wales.

Where's the problem..... Sion - Welsh equivalent to the Irish Sean, and therefore a variant of Iohannes.

That's it...? From that you deduce "Priory of Sion" refers to the Welsh translation of the name John?

TCP

Sheila · **Posted:** 02 Nov 2011 7:30 pm

why not...if the name fits, i thought it was interesting, all considered....which bit don't you get.

TCP · **Posted:** 02 Nov 2011 7:35 pm

Sheila wrote:

why not...if the name fits, i thought it was interesting, all considered....which bit don't you get.

What I didn't get is where you might be leading with it, I didn't realize it was just pondering.

TCP

Sheila · **Posted:** 02 Nov 2011 7:49 pm

ah, it's a wee bit more than pondering, it's called circumventing the security.

TCP · **Posted:** 02 Nov 2011 7:51 pm

Sheila wrote:

ah, it's a wee bit more than pondering, it's called circumventing the security.

Ah yes, right - and the blue fish swims in muddy waters... :wink:

TCP

Tertius · **Joined:** 12 Sep 2011 11:17 pm **Posts:** 412

Quote:

Gino Sandri is their most likely fournisseur.

Non because Sandri sayings do not agree with Howel/Haywood.

TCP · **Posted:** 02 Nov 2011 10:13 pm

Tertius wrote:

Quote:

Gino Sandri is their most likely fournisseur.

Non because Sandri sayings do not agree with Howel/Haywood.

Ah...then I must indeed get this book. Thanks for the tip.

TCP

richard.webster · **Posted:** 02 Nov 2011 11:47 pm

TCP wrote:

So let me ask you - is there a definite sense, from what you've read, that Haywood is the source and Howells is merely the conduit?

I'm not sure. Not knowing Howells, or having heard him expound on this subject before, aside from those few clips of an earnest and rather likeable participant in the "Bloodline" film, but knowing he's been interested in this subject for at least a couple of decades, I can't really judge the extent to which his opinions have been shaped by Haywood, and how his thinking on the subject might have altered, thanks to his exposure to him. That his opinions have been shaped by Haywood, to some extent or another, can't be in doubt, but then to be fair, the book in large part is about the beliefs and assumed knowledge of Haywood / Sion, and presents itself as such, and Howells himself seems quite open-minded in his own interpretation of the mystery, and gives time to various theories about it; he certainly doesn't appear to be pushing one particular line.

Yes, I'm sure he is being used as a conduit, and he must know that, but I guess he must figure it's worth it, and must believe it will help him in his quest for knowledge, as it were. He seems like a man on a journey, to me. One may well wonder about his choice of guide, but I still kind of enjoyed going on the journey with him, and found things along the way that I liked.

TCP wrote:

Under usual circumstances I probably wouldn't bother with it, but if level-headed people are finding some pearls among the onions perhaps it's worth a look-see. Thanks Richard.

I think you'll probably find fewer pearls than I did! But there should be enough in there of interest, nevertheless, if only to better answer your question above.

ndawe · **Posted:** 03 Nov 2011 8:19 am

richard.webster wrote:

Yes, I'm sure he is being used as a conduit, and he must know that, but I guess he must figure it's worth it, and must believe it will help him in his quest for knowledge, as it were. He seems like a man on a journey, to me. One may well wonder about his choice of guide, but I still kind of enjoyed going on the journey with him, and found things along the way that I liked.

Absolutely.

tingra · **Posted:** 03 Nov 2011 1:04 pm

Annotations on the Elements - Fire
by Nicolas Haywood (St Aubyn)

Please note the essay is copyright to Nicolas but the scan below is copyright to Robert Howells and not for diustribution or re-use without permission.

http://robhowells.co.uk/prioryofsion1.html

Tertius · **Joined:** 12 Sep 2011 11:17 pm **Posts:** 412

Does Haywood claim he is a related to the St Aubyn family?

TCP · **Posted:** 03 Nov 2011 6:25 pm

tingra wrote:

Annotations on the Elements - Fire
by Nicolas Haywood (St Aubyn)

Please note the essay is copyright to Nicolas but the scan below is copyright to Robert Howells and not for diustribution or re-use without permission.

http://robhowells.co.uk/prioryofsion1.html

So now he's claiming to be Nick St. Aubyn? Does that make Rob Baron Howell of Guildford?

Yeah, after reading this, I'm convinced that this "priory" has nothing at all to do with Plantard's.

TCP

rain · **Posted:** 03 Nov 2011 8:44 pm

TCP wrote:

tingra wrote:

Annotations on the Elements - Fire
by Nicolas Haywood (St Aubyn)

Please note the essay is copyright to Nicolas but the scan below is copyright to Robert Howells and not for diustribution or re-use without permission.

http://robhowells.co.uk/prioryofsion1.html

So now he's claiming to be Nick St. Aubyn? Does that make Rob Baron Howell of Guildford?

Yeah, after reading this, I'm convinced that this "priory" has nothing at all to do with Plantard's.

TCP

On his C.V. he asserts he was Manager of Watkins Bookstore for 5 years.

Tertius · **Joined:** 12 Sep 2011 11:17 pm **Posts:** 412

I forecast that Haywood will soon sell stories trying to involve the poor St Aubyn family and this
http://www.stmichaelsmount.co.uk/our-island-story/ into his prieure de sion stories.

And he will attempt to make an amalgame with this: 1424 – King Henry VI granted the Mount in the trust of Syon Abbey..(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syon_Monastery) There will be prizes for the most inventive scenario mixing this monastery with the prieure de sion. Extra prize if it is the same scenario that Haywood will use!

TCP · **Posted:** 03 Nov 2011 9:37 pm

Tertius wrote:

I forecast that Haywood will soon sell stories trying to involve the poor St Aubyn family and this
http://www.stmichaelsmount.co.uk/our-island-story/ into his prieure de sion stories.

And he will attempt to make an amalgame with this: 1424 – King Henry VI granted the Mount in the trust of Syon Abbey..(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syon_Monastery) There will be prizes for the most inventive scenario mixing this monastery with the prieure de sion. Extra prize if it is the same scenario that Haywood will use!

I'm putting money on the Cornish tin trade connection.

TCP

Pilrig · **Posted:** 03 Nov 2011 10:06 pm

Re St Michael's Mount , it featured in the film Revelation as did Rennes-le-Chateau http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqMyyRKsYvc

tingra · **Posted:** 04 Nov 2011 5:55 pm

Tertius wrote:

Does Haywood claim he is a related to the St Aubyn family?

Not yet, I have only just started to read it but like Spart I seem to be highlighting something ever other page

I agree with Richard and Nicole and i am reserving judgment until I finish it.

Caelum · **Posted:** 04 Nov 2011 7:51 pm

TCP wrote:

Tertius wrote:

I forecast that Haywood will soon sell stories trying to involve the poor St Aubyn family and this
http://www.stmichaelsmount.co.uk/our-island-story/ into his prieure de sion stories.

And he will attempt to make an amalgame with this: 1424 – King Henry VI granted the Mount in the trust of Syon Abbey..(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syon_Monastery) There will be prizes for the most inventive scenario mixing this monastery with the prieure de sion. Extra prize if it is the same scenario that Haywood will use!

I'm putting money on the Cornish tin trade connection.

TCP

Oh yeh. This thing's got Joseph of Arimathea written all over it.

Pilrig · **Posted:** 04 Nov 2011 8:10 pm

And did those feet in ancient time....

lovuian · **Posted:** 05 Nov 2011 2:05 am

For what we do presage is not in grosse,
For we are brethren of the Rosie Crosse;
We have the Mason Word and second sight,
Things for to come we can foretell aright.

— Henry Adamson, The Muses' Threnodie (Perth, 1638)

richard.webster · **Posted:** 08 Nov 2011 9:33 am

tingra wrote:

Tertius wrote:

Does Haywood claim he is a related to the St Aubyn family?

Not yet, I have only just started to read it but like Spart I seem to be highlighting something ever other page

Keep going. :wink:

It actually gets better as it goes along, once they get the PdS grandmaster lists out of the way, and Rob gets to Rennes itself, somewhere he clearly has an affinity for, and writes about well.

The St Aubyn reference is towards the end of the book, in a section on PdS documentation, and the practice of Sion brethren using seals and stamped signatures on their documents, so as not to have to go to the trouble of gathering actual signatures from their highly dispersed membership. The actual reference is about a letter sent to the producers of "Bloodline" in the mid-2000s, agreeing to co-operate with the film, in which Haywood signs himself St Aubyn, described as an old family name. (I'm just saying what's in the book .....)

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