Madonna of the Eucharist

roscoe · **Joined:** 02 Dec 2006 3:44 pm **Posts:** 6957

Madonna of the Eucharist by the 9th Grand Master of the Priory of Sion

Sandro Botticelli.

The Grand Master before Leonardo da Vinci.

The Constellation Virgo
Virgo is traditionally seen as the appellation of the goddess of justice, Astraea, the virgin daughter of Zeus and Themis. She is known for holding the scales of justice, from the constellation Libra which is nearby. Astraea was said to have ruled the world with her wise ways until man became so corrupt and and uncaring that she returned to the skies in disgust.

Other mythology ties Virgo to Persephone, daughter of Demeter, the goddess of agriculture and known for her innocence and purity of heart. She later became the Queen of the Underworld, and was taken by Hades. There are still other myths that tie Virgo to virtually every major goddess from mythology.

The Sumerians who knew her as Inanna, Queen of Heaven and Earth;

The Akkadians’ (and Babylonians’) as Ishtar, the “leading one” or “chief”;

The Egyptians who knew her as Isis, the Goddess of Fertility;

The Hindus as Kauni, “The Maiden”;

The Persians as Khosha, “the Ear of Wheat”;

The Hebrews as Bethulah, “Abundance in Harvest”;

The Semites as Astarte (Anunit or Atarsamain);

The Greeks as Demeter (or Persephone), the Earth Goddess;

The Romans as Virgo or Ceres, (“ear of wheat or corn”); and

The Anglo-Saxons as Eostre (“Easter”), goddess of spring.

The constellation Virgo is most frequently seen as the arms and torso of Astraea, holding a sheaf of wheat.

Elizabeth Yorke (Lady Anson of Shugborough) studied Astraea in France before she married. She was painted dressed as a Shepherdess during this period.

Woman clothed with the sun at the Old Bailey, Britain's top law courts.

She stands over the earth, L'Epi de la Vierge in her right hand followed by Libra.

The Cathedrals of Northern France

Quote:

Revelation 12:3-5, "And there appeared another sign in heaven; a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail gathered a third of the stars, and cast them to the Earth: and the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to be delivered, to devour her Child as soon as it was born. And she brought forth a man Child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her Child was caught up unto God, and to His throne".

Le Serpent Rouge

Quote:

[12 Sagittarius]
Returning again to the white hill, the sky opens its floodgates. Close to me a presence, its feet in the water, like one who has just received the mark of baptism, I turn away again to the east, facing me I see unwinding endlessly by his coils, the enormous RED SERPENT mentioned in the documents, rigid and bitter, the huge, unleashed beast at the foot of the white mountain beast becomes scarlet with anger.

A Harvest Moon

roscoe · **Joined:** 02 Dec 2006 3:44 pm **Posts:** 6957

Quote:

SANDRO FILIPEPI. Better known as Botticelli, Sandro Filipepi was born in 1444. With the exception of Nicolas Flamel, his is the first name on the list of Sion’s alleged Grand Masters not to be directly affiliated with the families whose genealogies figure in the “Prieure documents’. At the same time, however, he seems to have enjoyed an extremely close rapport with some of those families. Among his patrons were the Medicis, the Estes, the Gonzagas and the Vespuccis the last of whom had provided the tutor for Iolande de Bar’s son, the future duke of Lorraine.
Botticelli himself studied under Filippo Lippi and Mantegna, both of whom had been patronised by Rene d’Anjou. He also studied under Verrocchio, an alchemist and exponent of Hermetic thought, whose other pupils included Leonardo da Vinci.
Like most people we did not at first think of Botticelli in “occult’ or esoteric terms. But recent scholars of the Renaissance Edgar Wind, for instance, and Frances Yates have effectively argued an esoteric predisposition in him, and we deferred to the persuasiveness of their conclusions. Botticelli does seem to have been an “esotericist’, and the greater part of his work reflects an embodiment of esoteric principles. One of the earliest known decks of Tarot cards is ascribed to Botticelli or his tutor, Mantegna. And the famous painting “Primavera’ is, among many other things, an elaboration on the theme of Arcadia and the esoteric “underground stream’.

Extract from Holy Blood Holy Grail.

Iolande de Bar was the Grand Master (sic) prior to Botticelli and Rene d'Anjou was prior to her. She was married to Frederick de Lorraine Count of Vaudemont as in Sion Vaudemont.

She died on the spring equinox 1431 her sister Margaret's birthday. Margaret was the wife of Henry VI of England.

They were the daughters of Isabella, Duchess of Lorraine, and René of Anjou (King of Naples, Duke of Anjou, Bar and Lorraine, Count of Provence)

For the pedants amongst you. Because the sun is not a point of light the passage of the sun over the equator takes 33 hours, more than a day.

roscoe · **Joined:** 02 Dec 2006 3:44 pm **Posts:** 6957

Alpha Virginis - L'Epi de la Vierge

On the right - La Vierge ♍ et la Grande Ourse.

roscoe · **Joined:** 02 Dec 2006 3:44 pm **Posts:** 6957

Madonna of the

Eucharist
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Blés and the Pommes Bleues
Bread and wine 1

Bread and Wine 2

The Eucharist started with the Last Supper make of that what thou wilt.

The soon to die Jesus and the TWELVE disciples
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dying_god

Secret? What Secret?

Sauniere's diary entry made on the Feast of Saint Michael eight days after his entry about finding a tomb on the Autumn Equinox.
http://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/september-equinox.html

"People of the Aude would rather believe in the malignant spirit and the fairies and the underground geniuses than the Virgin and Angels" - Gaston Jourdanne; Folklore of the Aude: 1900
The height of Sauniere's activities in the Aude.

http://scienceblogs.com/grrlscientist/2010/04/zeitgeist_the_greatest_story_e.php
http://hubpages.com/hub/Jesus-and-the-A ... cal-Zodiac

roscoe · **Joined:** 02 Dec 2006 3:44 pm **Posts:** 6957

Ride a white swan like the people of the Beltane....Wear a tall hat like a Druid in the old days

lovuian · **Posted:** 28 Jul 2011 3:26 pm

from Twyman
The documents state that the Priory of Sion was the Compagnie du Saint-Sacrement.

It does seem some members were involved doesn't it :wink:

Great work Roscoe

roscoe · **Joined:** 02 Dec 2006 3:44 pm **Posts:** 6957

"Ordo" of Carcassonne, the days of "perpetual adoration of the Eucharist"

Rennes 17th January

Coincidence right?

This day switched sometime after 1863 and became 22nd June. i.e. during the summer solstice.

Bles and Pommes Bleues.

Quote:

The Eucharist ( /ˈjuːkərɪst/), also called Holy Communion, the Sacrament of the Altar, the Blessed Sacrament, the Lord's Supper, and other names, is a sacrament or ordinance that Christians celebrate in accordance with the instruction that, according to the New Testament, Jesus gave at his Last Supper to do in his memory what he did when he gave his disciples bread, saying, "This is my body", and wine, saying, "This is my blood"

- Wikipedia

Lord's Supper
Does everyone like me get the impression that the curved stone slab at the bottom is a later addition to prevent us from seeing the feet of Jesus and "whoever it is" on his right hand?

And what about Mary's sorry John the Divine's hands? Fingers interlocked ----- again

Oranges on the table?

Quote:

Oranges are clearly visible in the painting and art experts have pointed out their presence as a factual error. Historians state that oranges were brought to Europe in the 15th Century A.D. by Dutch sailors from the Indian subcontinent. In comparison to that, the events of the last supper occurred many centuries beforehand.

- Wikipedia.

Quote:

The sweet orange does not occur in the wild. It is believed to have been first cultivated in southern China, northeastern India, or perhaps southeastern Asia (formerly Indochina).

The Persian orange, grown widely in southern Europe after its introduction to Italy in the 11th century, was bitter. It was used primarily for medicinal purposes.

Italian traders might have introduced it to the Mediterranean area after 1450. Portuguese navigators have also been credited with bringing orange trees to the Mediterranean region around 1500. After introduction of the sweet orange, it was quickly adopted as an edible fruit; it was so highly regarded that wealthy persons grew oranges in private conservatories, called orangeries. Certainly by 1646 it was well-known in Europe.

- Wikipedia

A factual error? Oh well that's OK then. Leonardo liked oranges then? Pass me some absinthe someone I need to dumb down I'm thinking far too much for my own good. I need to stop wondering why Leonardo placed them in the painting. :wink:

Of course if you really want to know about the Last Supper by Leonardo Da Vinci then ask Jim Beck of this parish.

Caelum · **Posted:** 31 Jul 2011 3:42 pm

roscoe wrote:

[/url]
Lord's Supper
Does everyone like me get the impression that the curved stone slab at the bottom is a later addition to prevent us from seeing the feet of Jesus and "whoever it is" on his right hand?

It is a later addition, 1652 to be exact and it was a door cut into the refectory wall - it almost doesn't matter, since there was almost no Da Vinci work left on the wall by that point. It makes more sense to look at the near contemporaneous copies such as Giampetrino's to get an idea of what was originally painted.

lovuian · **Posted:** 01 Aug 2011 4:40 am

I know orangeries were prevalent int the courtyards of the Acadians
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nerboo/2142970235/
Spaniards undoubtedly introduced the sweet orange into South America and Mexico in the mid-1500s, and probably the French took it to Louisiana. It was from New Orleans that seeds were obtained and distributed in Florida about 1872 and many orange groves were established by grafting the sweet orange onto sour orange rootstocks

they also found Roscoe Da Vinci's Last supper a favorite motif to place on their altars

this is in New Orleans ...the Last Supper of Da Vinci is carved on the Altar
Is Magdalene ...the Madonna of the Eucharist ? ...just a possibility

wayward · **Posted:** 01 Aug 2011 12:49 pm

Caelum wrote:

roscoe wrote:

It is a later addition, 1652 to be exact and it was a door cut into the refectory wall - it almost doesn't matter, since there was almost no Da Vinci work left on the wall by that point. It makes more sense to look at the near contemporaneous copies such as Giampetrino's to get an idea of what was originally painted.

Perhaps these copies were made by persons more in line with what the church told them to think than was da Vinci.

Caelum · **Posted:** 01 Aug 2011 6:11 pm

wayward wrote:

Caelum wrote:

roscoe wrote:

It is a later addition, 1652 to be exact and it was a door cut into the refectory wall - it almost doesn't matter, since there was almost no Da Vinci work left on the wall by that point. It makes more sense to look at the near contemporaneous copies such as Giampetrino's to get an idea of what was originally painted.

Perhaps these copies were made by persons more in line with what the church told them to think than was da Vinci.

Bill, I'm not quite sure what you mean. Giampetrino worked for Da Vinci and is responsible for the two main copies - since Da Vinci's Last Supper decayed so quickly that it was hard to distinguish separate persons, the fact that it now looks very close to its own copies means that the copies were the template. The copies were either true to the original, or they weren't. If they weren't, then there IS no Da Vinci Last Supper to ponder...

wayward · **Posted:** 01 Aug 2011 9:32 pm

Caelum wrote:

Bill, I'm not quite sure what you mean. Giampetrino worked for Da Vinci and is responsible for the two main copies - since Da Vinci's Last Supper decayed so quickly that it was hard to distinguish separate persons, the fact that it now looks very close to its own copies means that the copies were the template. The copies were either true to the original, or they weren't. If they weren't, then there IS no Da Vinci Last Supper to ponder...

I also don't follow, "it was a later addition, 1652". It would be interesting to know if the restorers had used the copies as a reference, it was my understanding they had not.---Bill

Caelum · **Posted:** 02 Aug 2011 6:39 pm

wayward wrote:

Caelum wrote:

Bill, I'm not quite sure what you mean. Giampetrino worked for Da Vinci and is responsible for the two main copies - since Da Vinci's Last Supper decayed so quickly that it was hard to distinguish separate persons, the fact that it now looks very close to its own copies means that the copies were the template. The copies were either true to the original, or they weren't. If they weren't, then there IS no Da Vinci Last Supper to ponder...

I also don't follow, "it was a later addition, 1652". It would be interesting to know if the restorers had used the copies as a reference, it was my understanding they had not.---Bill

The arch Roscoe was referring to is an actual door cut into the mural in 1652. My point about the copies is that LVD's biographer, Giorgio Vasari wrote in 1556 that the painting was completely deteriorated to the point that faces weren't even recognizable. When restorations were first attempted in the 18thC, they had almost nothing to work with and in fact repainted a great deal from scratch - if those initial restorers DIDN'T refer to the copies (which have always been in good shape) then LVD's original images (ideas) were predominantly wiped out, so the modern 20thC restorers wouldn't have been restoring LDV in any real sense.

wayward · **Posted:** 02 Aug 2011 8:11 pm

Caelum wrote:

The arch Roscoe was referring to is an actual door cut into the mural in 1652. My point about the copies is that LVD's biographer, Giorgio Vasari wrote in 1556 that the painting was completely deteriorated to the point that faces weren't even recognizable. When restorations were first attempted in the 18thC, they had almost nothing to work with and in fact repainted a great deal from scratch - if those initial restorers DIDN'T refer to the copies (which have always been in good shape) then LVD's original images (ideas) were predominantly wiped out, so the modern 20thC restorers wouldn't have been restoring LDV in any real sense.

sorry Caelum, I misunderstood your point. As for the door, what I had meant is that if da Vinci had indeed painted smaller feet for the person on Jesus right, it was cleverly covered up with the doorway and the so-called copiers would, I assume not have had knowledge of Leonardo's intent. But, why would anyone even bring something like this up you might ask? Only because someone had cut a door into one of the greatest masterpieces in art.

jim · **Posted:** 03 Aug 2011 12:58 pm

Anyone here believing that none of LDV original work can be found on the masterpiece known as the Last Supper is extremely ignorant of the work done by the latest restoration team and is only listening to the few loud mouth critics who were against another restoration attempt from the start. The restoration team led by Pinin Brambilla Barcilon spent 20 years, first painstakingly examining every fragment, removing anything not original then, where original material could no longer be seen with the naked eye using high power electron microscopic examination, determining from remnants of paint at the first layer the artist intent, and filling that area in with a lighter shade of that origin color so as original and touch up were distinguishable. The team was able to look down to the level of original pencil marks and note corrections the artist himself made. They were able to determine where other restorers screwed up and corrected their mistakes. What we are left with today, may only be 20 percent of LDV final stroke but at least 80 percent of his original intent. If you want a better understanding of what it is you're looking at, get Pinin Brambilla Barcilon book, it gives the greatest of detail.

wayward · **Posted:** 04 Aug 2011 12:54 am

jim wrote:

Anyone here believing that none of LDV original work can be found on the masterpiece known as the Last Supper is extremely ignorant of the work done by the latest restoration team and is only listening to the few loud mouth critics who were against another restoration attempt from the start. The restoration team led by Pinin Brambilla Barcilon spent 20 years, first painstakingly examining every fragment, removing anything not original then, where original material could no longer be seen with the naked eye using high power electron microscopic examination, determining from remnants of paint at the first layer the artist intent, and filling that area in with a lighter shade of that origin color so as original and touch up were distinguishable. The team was able to look down to the level of original pencil marks and note corrections the artist himself made. They were able to determine where other restorers screwed up and corrected their mistakes. What we are left with today, may only be 20 percent of LDV final stroke but at least 80 percent of his original intent. If you want a better understanding of what it is you're looking at, get Pinin Brambilla Barcilon book, it gives the greatest of detail.

Jim, I agree with you, which is why I ask, would anybody cut a doorway into the most important work of the renaissance?

rain · **Posted:** 05 Aug 2011 8:23 am

wayward wrote:

jim wrote:

Anyone here believing that none of LDV original work can be found on the masterpiece known as the Last Supper is extremely ignorant of the work done by the latest restoration team and is only listening to the few loud mouth critics who were against another restoration attempt from the start. The restoration team led by Pinin Brambilla Barcilon spent 20 years, first painstakingly examining every fragment, removing anything not original then, where original material could no longer be seen with the naked eye using high power electron microscopic examination, determining from remnants of paint at the first layer the artist intent, and filling that area in with a lighter shade of that origin color so as original and touch up were distinguishable. The team was able to look down to the level of original pencil marks and note corrections the artist himself made. They were able to determine where other restorers screwed up and corrected their mistakes. What we are left with today, may only be 20 percent of LDV final stroke but at least 80 percent of his original intent. If you want a better understanding of what it is you're looking at, get Pinin Brambilla Barcilon book, it gives the greatest of detail.

Jim, I agree with you, which is why I ask, would anybody cut a doorway into the most important work of the renaissance?

Because Elvis wanted to leave the Building.

Father Silence · **Posted:** 05 Aug 2011 10:57 am

wayward wrote:

jim wrote:

Anyone here believing that none of LDV original work can be found on the masterpiece known as the Last Supper is extremely ignorant of the work done by the latest restoration team and is only listening to the few loud mouth critics who were against another restoration attempt from the start. The restoration team led by Pinin Brambilla Barcilon spent 20 years, first painstakingly examining every fragment, removing anything not original then, where original material could no longer be seen with the naked eye using high power electron microscopic examination, determining from remnants of paint at the first layer the artist intent, and filling that area in with a lighter shade of that origin color so as original and touch up were distinguishable. The team was able to look down to the level of original pencil marks and note corrections the artist himself made. They were able to determine where other restorers screwed up and corrected their mistakes. What we are left with today, may only be 20 percent of LDV final stroke but at least 80 percent of his original intent. If you want a better understanding of what it is you're looking at, get Pinin Brambilla Barcilon book, it gives the greatest of detail.

Jim, I agree with you, which is why I ask, would anybody cut a doorway into the most important work of the renaissance?

I'd heard the doorway was cut into the Last Supper as a shortcut between the kitchen and the refectory. The residents of the Convent of Santa Maria delle Grazie got tired of their food arriving cold. At the time the painting was in the sorry condition as described by Vasari so they didn't appreciate its importance.

FS

wayward · **Posted:** 05 Aug 2011 11:44 am

Father Silence wrote:

I'd heard the doorway was cut into the Last Supper as a shortcut between the kitchen and the refectory. The residents of the Convent of Santa Maria delle Grazie got tired of their food arriving cold. At the time the painting was in the sorry condition as described by Vasari so they didn't appreciate its importance.

FS

Sounds like "hearsay evidence" to me!

Father Silence · **Posted:** 05 Aug 2011 12:03 pm

wayward wrote:

Father Silence wrote:

I'd heard the doorway was cut into the Last Supper as a shortcut between the kitchen and the refectory. The residents of the Convent of Santa Maria delle Grazie got tired of their food arriving cold. At the time the painting was in the sorry condition as described by Vasari so they didn't appreciate its importance.

FS

Sounds like "hearsay evidence" to me!

Admittedly. It's information I got from a documentary, but I'm not currently able to pin down a citation.

FS

jim · **Posted:** 05 Aug 2011 12:47 pm

I believe Pinin Brambilla Barcilon mentions this in her book. I'll try finding the passage when I get home.

Crimson_Ghost · **Posted:** 05 Aug 2011 8:43 pm

rain wrote:

wayward wrote:

jim wrote:

Anyone here believing that none of LDV original work can be found on the masterpiece known as the Last Supper is extremely ignorant of the work done by the latest restoration team and is only listening to the few loud mouth critics who were against another restoration attempt from the start. The restoration team led by Pinin Brambilla Barcilon spent 20 years, first painstakingly examining every fragment, removing anything not original then, where original material could no longer be seen with the naked eye using high power electron microscopic examination, determining from remnants of paint at the first layer the artist intent, and filling that area in with a lighter shade of that origin color so as original and touch up were distinguishable. The team was able to look down to the level of original pencil marks and note corrections the artist himself made. They were able to determine where other restorers screwed up and corrected their mistakes. What we are left with today, may only be 20 percent of LDV final stroke but at least 80 percent of his original intent. If you want a better understanding of what it is you're looking at, get Pinin Brambilla Barcilon book, it gives the greatest of detail.

Jim, I agree with you, which is why I ask, would anybody cut a doorway into the most important work of the renaissance?

Because Elvis wanted to leave the Building.

Elvis

, that guy always gets special treatment...bugger.

wayward · **Posted:** 05 Aug 2011 10:13 pm

Father Silence wrote:

At the time the painting was in the sorry condition as described by Vasari so they didn't appreciate its importance.
FS

I have a little trouble with this statement also, after all, it was a "da Vinci"! If in poor condition and they really didn't appreciate it why not just cover it over?
I have a type of argument that Roger taught me.
Lets say the artist was privy to a certain secret and hid a clue to that secret within the painting and lets say the secret was that a female and not a man authored one of the most important books of the new testament. Lets say this artist was trying to tell a future generation that John the Beloved was in reality Mary. OK, now lets say some church fathers knew this but figured it hidden well enough that it wasn't that noticable and at the same time the work was deteriorating at a fast pace and therefore wouldn't be a problem very long. Now lets say that as time passed the figures were harder to recognize and the problem had been solved, except for one thing, the feet of the figure in question were smaller, of course to represent a female. So lets say to solve this last problem it was decided to come up with an excuse to cut a door at that precise location, like for instance the food gets cold if we have to walk around. Complete problem solved, except who knew that there would someday be the tools available for a thorough restoration.

btw, this is only a scenario.---Bill

rain · **Posted:** 05 Aug 2011 10:42 pm

Quote:

wayward wrote:

Jim, I agree with you, which is why I ask, would anybody cut a doorway into the most important work of the renaissance?

Because Elvis wanted to leave the Building.

Quote:

Elvis

, that guy always gets special treatment...bugger.

Yeah, he does, doesn't he. Now we find out the door was built so he could get his deep fried peanut butter sandies piping hot. :idea:

That makes sense because peanut butter would tend to stick to the top of your mouth cold.

lovuian · **Posted:** 06 Aug 2011 4:25 am

Quote:

I have a little trouble with this statement also, after all, it was a "da Vinci"! If in poor condition and they really didn't appreciate it why not just cover it over?
I have a type of argument that Roger taught me.
Lets say the artist was privy to a certain secret and hid a clue to that secret within the painting and lets say the secret was that a female and not a man authored one of the most important books of the new testament. Lets say this artist was trying to tell a future generation that John the Beloved was in reality Mary. OK, now lets say some church fathers knew this but figured it hidden well enough that it wasn't that noticable and at the same time the work was deteriorating at a fast pace and therefore wouldn't be a problem very long. Now lets say that as time passed the figures were harder to recognize and the problem had been solved, except for one thing, the feet of the figure in question were smaller, of course to represent a female. So lets say to solve this last problem it was decided to come up with an excuse to cut a door at that precise location, like for instance the food gets cold if we have to walk around. Complete problem solved, except who knew that there would someday be the tools available for a thorough restoration.

btw, this is only a scenario.---Bill

Can I add onto the scenario of possibility Bill :wink:

And let us say that Da Vinci worked for the Borgias
that is the Pope Borgia's son Cesare

it could be why Da Vinci had support
from Rome....

let us say Rome knows all about this...just a possible scenario

Historian Johann Burchard, a contemporary of Alexander VI, who lived in the Vatican, states about Cesare:

One day he went so far as to have the square of St Peter enclosed by a palisade, into which he ordered some prisoners - men, women and children - to be brought. He then had them bound, hand and foot, and being armed and mounted on a fiery charger, commenced a horrible attack upon them. Some he shot, and others he cut down with his sword, trampling them under his horse's feet. In less than half-an-hour, he wheeled around alone in a puddle of blood, among the dead bodies of his victims, while his Holiness and Madam Lucrezia, from a balcony, enjoyed the sight of that horrid scene.

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Madonna of the Eucharist

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