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 Post subject: Re: Jean-Luc Chaumeil
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2011 9:39 am 
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Spartacus Paraclete wrote:
Hi Paddy,

Paddy wrote:

Quote:

Have just found and watched again my tape of "History of a Mystery".

I regret/confirm that I saw no sign of M. Bonhomme, unless I blinked.


Thank you for taking the time to confirm my 'suspicions'. So is this another one of those 'well known facts' about the Priory of Sion that is NOT actually a fact at all.

For example at:

http://www.christianmonthlystandard.com/index.php/the-da-vinci-code-sorting-fact-from-fiction-2/

...one can read that:

Quote:
The original president Andre Bonhomme made this statement on a BBC special about this mysterious group in 1996: “The Priory of Sion doesn’t exist anymore. We were never involved in any activities of a political nature. It was four friends who came together to have fun. We called ourselves the Priory of Sion because there was a mountain by the same name close by. I haven’t seen Pierre Plantard in over 20 years and I don’t know what he’s up to but he always had a great imagination. I don’t know why people try to make such a big thing out of nothing.”


Perhaps I'm missing something...anyone anything to add?

Of course this tale is repeated over and over, particularly by the Sion sceptics. Might it be worth trying to figure out were it came from?!

This story used to appear on a certain website, but since I began questioning its accuracy, the website has changed. I'm not saying that is because of my questions, but... :?

I'd be very interested in any comments...Come on...join in!

Regards,

Spartacus


At the risk of repetition and of going round in circles, the only other thing that I can find on this at the moment is in Jean-Luc Chaumeil’s book “La Table d’Isis “, 1994, p.124:

‘...l’association du Prieuré de Sion [...] Nous avons pu contacter les anciens members de ce bureau, qui sont partis d’un grand éclat de rire, quand nous leur avons parlé de Rennes-le-Château. Selon son ancien président, il ne s’aggissait à l’époque que “d’un club de boy-scouts” et, “RIEN D’AUTRE”...!’

[‘... the association of the Priory of Sion [...] We were able to get in touch with the former members of this committee, who burst out laughing, when we talked to them about Rennes-le-Château. According to its former president, it was at the time only "a club for boy scouts" and "NOTHING ELSE"...!’]

Not sure if the chapter and verse helps.

Paddy


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 Post subject: Re: Jean-Luc Chaumeil
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2011 11:54 am 
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Hi Paddy,

Paddy wrote:

Quote:
At the risk of repetition and of going round in circles, the only other thing that I can find on this at the moment is in Jean-Luc Chaumeil’s book “La Table d’Isis “, 1994, p.124:

‘...l’association du Prieuré de Sion [...] Nous avons pu contacter les anciens members de ce bureau, qui sont partis d’un grand éclat de rire, quand nous leur avons parlé de Rennes-le-Château. Selon son ancien président, il ne s’aggissait à l’époque que “d’un club de boy-scouts” et, “RIEN D’AUTRE”...!’

[‘... the association of the Priory of Sion [...] We were able to get in touch with the former members of this committee, who burst out laughing, when we talked to them about Rennes-le-Château. According to its former president, it was at the time only "a club for boy scouts" and "NOTHING ELSE"...!’]

Not sure if the chapter and verse helps.


No, don't think you're being repetitive at all...thanks for posting.

I have that quote from another of Chaumeil's books and it is interesting in and of itself.

What I am interested in is the other 'quote' that is constantly repeated as being from a BBC show. Was it adapted from the Chaumeil 'quote', or did the BBC actually interview Bonhomme, as is so often claimed?

Picknett put the claim a little differently from that used above ('The original president Andre Bonhomme made this statement on a BBC special about this mysterious group in 1996'). In The Sion Legacy, she writes:

Quote:
In 1996 Bonhomme told the BBC: “The Priory of Sion doesn’t exist anymore. We were never involved in any activities of a political nature. It was four friends who came together to have fun. We called ourselves the Priory of Sion because there was a mountain by the same name close by. I haven’t seen Pierre Plantard in over 20 years and I don’t know what he’s up to but he always had a great imagination. I don’t know why people try to make such a big thing out of nothing.” (4)


When the reference number is checked, it reads:

Quote:
'To the makers of the BBC Timewatch documentary 'History of a Mystery' (written and directed by William Cran and broadcast in September 1996), as quoted in Smith, 'The Real Historical Origin at [sic] the Priory of Sion'.


Unlike so many others, Picknett does not claim that Bonhomme was interviewed on air (perhaps she even bothered to WATCH the said show before making claims about it!). However, it is worth asking whether Picknett checked with BBC sources to confirm that they had interviewed Bonhomme and he had made the above statement? Or did she take it directly from 'The Real Historical Origin at [sic] the Priory of Sion'?!

On reviewing 'The Real Historical Origin of the Priory of Sion', the latter seems the more likely IMHO:

Quote:
THE REAL HISTORICAL ORIGIN OF THE PRIORY OF SION

The President of the 1956 Priory of Sion was André Bonhomme.

André Bonhomme was one of the four founding members of the Priory of Sion in Annemasse in 1956, along with Pierre Plantard. He is tired of being harassed by inquiries about the nature of the association and doesn't want any publicity – he refuses to be interviewed on television or on radio. He doesn't understand where people get the idea that the Priory was anything other than what it was – just a small club of friends.

This was the statement he made to the BBC in 1996:

"The Priory of Sion doesn't exist anymore. We were never involved in any activities of a political nature. It was four friends who came together to have fun. We called ourselves the Priory of Sion because there was a mountain by the same name close-by. I haven't seen Pierre Plantard in over 20 years and I don't know what he's up to but he always had a great imagination. I don't know why people try to make such a big thing out of nothing."

And to quote French Researcher Jean-Luc Chaumeil from his 1994 book ‘The Table Of Isis, Part 2, The Templars Of The Apocalypse: The Message Of A Sacred Enigma - Tales, Legends And Myths Of Rennes-le-Chateau’:

"Finally, the Priory of Sion was created in 1956. We were able to contact former members of this office, who all burst out laughing when we mentioned Rennes-le-Château. According to its former President, the association was at the time a "club for boy scouts" and NOTHING MORE….!"

And from the BBC 2 Timewatch documentary The History of a Mystery (1996):

"There's no evidence for a Priory of Sion until the 1950s; to find it, you go to the little town of St-Julien. Under French Law every new club or association must register itself with the Authorities, and that's why there's a dossier here showing that a Priory of Sion filed the proper forms in 1956. According to a founding member, this eccentric association took its name not from Jerusalem, but from a nearby mountain (Col du Mont Sion Alt. 786 m). The dossier also notes that the Priory's self-styled Grand Master Pierre Plantard, who is central to this story, has done time in jail."


So from this, can we take it that the claim here is that the BBC supposedly interviewed Bonhomme, got the above statement, but then didn't use it in the 'History of a Mystery' Timewatch Special, perhaps because of Bonhomme's reluctance to recieve any publicity (begging two obvious questions - why is he so extremely publicity shy anyway, and why bother giving any statement to the BBC at all, if he feels that way). Yet couldn't the BBC have read out his statement without naming him, just as they seemingly did with the claim about 'the nearby mountain'.

Also, how are we to assume that knowledge of the supposed Bonhomme 'statement' to the BBC became PUBLIC knowledge. Was it through private correspondence with Chaumeil, or perhaps the author of 'The Real Historical Origin of the Priory of Sion'?


Interestingly, the Bonhomme claim AFAICanRemember used to be referenced on the Wikipedia PoS and Plantard pages. However, the pages have now been changed and the Bonhomme claim has been removed!

I'd be very interested to hear what you think Paddy, and what anyone else thinks?!

Come on, it'll be fun :mrgreen:

Regards,

Spartacus

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Last edited by Spartacus Paraclete on 02 Apr 2011 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Jean-Luc Chaumeil
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2011 1:48 pm 
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Hi,

Ok. Since posting the first of the above two posts, I allegedly recieved 'by proxy', two emails from a 'Mr. Smith' explaining the above conundrum (while also allegedly threatening to sue someone he thinks is me).

I posted the second post BEFORE allegedly reading the emails from a 'Mr. Smith'.

He writes:

Quote:
Nothing has changed on http://www.priory-of-sion.com because everything on that website is factually accurate, including this account given by Andre Bonhomme in a telephone conversation to the makers of The History of a Mystery [Highlight added]:

http://priory-of-sion.com/psp/id43.html

Note what is written down:

"This was the statement he made to the BBC in 1996:"

It does not say that what he said was to television cameras.

The makers of 'The History of a Mystery' wanted Bonhomme to appear on their documentary but he refused to appear before television cameras.

It's okay, I have a photocopy of Bonhomme's conversation as transcribed by the documentary makers. I can prove everything.

Nothing has changed on http://www.priory-of-sion.com because it does not need changing.


So....ok, thanks for clearing that up for us. As can be gathered from my second post, I had deduced as much for myself.

If any site has not changed, I hold my hands up, and offer my most deepest, most heart felt apologies...I must have confused one alleged site with some other alleged site.

And if other people have mistakenly assumed that Bonhomme makes the 'boy-scout' claim in the Timewatch episode itself, rather than in a supposedly un-aired phone call to the Timewatch team, that of course cannot and should not be judged as part of any ruse by anyone to confuse people in any way. All the confusion should be assigned to the numerous people who have confused, and have been confused by, the issue in question, and to those confused people alone!

Disclaimer: This post is meant for educational purposes only. Any resemblance to real persons, either living or dead, is purely coincidental.

Regards,

Spartacus (allegedly)

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'Conceal me what I am, and be my aid, for such disguise as haply shall become, the form of my intent'.


Last edited by Spartacus Paraclete on 12 May 2011 7:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Jean-Luc Chaumeil
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2011 3:00 pm 
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Hi,

In furtherance of this tremendous piece of detective work that has so invigorated the research community (!), it might interest some to know that the supposed ‘Andre Bonhomme statement’ at the centre of this great debate can apparently be sourced to ‘letters, transcripts and reports…from InVision Productions’. :mrgreen:

Regards,

Spartacus

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Last edited by Spartacus Paraclete on 01 May 2011 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Jean-Luc Chaumeil
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2011 3:39 pm 
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Hi,

Does anyone know if Roscoe has left us for good? Can he be contacted still? I have a question about Chaumeil!

Regards,

Spartacus

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'Conceal me what I am, and be my aid, for such disguise as haply shall become, the form of my intent'.


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 Post subject: Re: Jean-Luc Chaumeil
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2011 3:43 pm 
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Quote:
Hi,

Does anyone know if Roscoe has left us for good? Can he be contacted still? I have a question about Chaumeil!

Regards,

Spartacus

Try his PM ?
He posted a couple of weeks back so I would think he is still contactable.
Regards
Nic


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 Post subject: Re: Jean-Luc Chaumeil
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2011 3:46 pm 
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Hi Nic,

Thanks. I supposed that's the best move. I hope he doesn't think it's rude :oops:

Regards,

Spartacus

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 Post subject: Re: Jean-Luc Chaumeil
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2011 5:49 pm 
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Spartacus
my opinion is that an organization exists...I don't know if its the Priory of Sion (the name)
the reason is that the hands on Magdalene at Rennes and Jean Cocteau's hands at his death

mean something to somebody

Plantard talked about the American side of the Priory and they were not happy with him and Nikolaus Hayward
in his interview from Bruce Burgess talks about that some in the Priory opposed having their secret organization exposed

Just my opinion

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 Post subject: Re: Jean-Luc Chaumeil
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2011 9:46 pm 
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Spartacus Paraclete wrote:
Hi Everybody,

I'm going to bring this back up again, as I think it is worth figuring out. No one bothered answering the last time I brought it up. I'm unsure whether that is because NOBODY knows the answer, or because EVERYBODY except me knows the answer :!:

It is commonly reported (particularly by Sion sceptics) that André Bonhomme was interviewed for the 1996 BBC Timewatch programme ‘The History of a Mystery’, where he supposedly roundly 'debunked' the Priory of Sion (Boy Scouts and all that). However no reference is made to Bonhomme during any version of that show that I have seen at least. A very minor reference is made to a founding member who claimed that the Priory was named for the nearby Mount Sion.

Has anyone (please, come on, be nice) seen a version of 'History of a Mystery' where Bonhomme is interviewed and makes the Boy Scout claim?

Surely this is worth examining? Or if it already has been examined, please put me out of my misery and point me in the general direction of that examination!

Could people even confirm that they watched 'History of a Mystery' but DIDN'T see the supposed interview with Bonhomme?

Regards,

Spartacus


Yep, I watched it when it was first broadcast and have it on VHS, but for the life of me can't remember the Boy Scout claim. Mebbe have to have a look at it again.


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 Post subject: Re: Jean-Luc Chaumeil
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2011 11:01 pm 
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Hi Pilrig,

Pilrig wrote:

Quote:
Yep, I watched it when it was first broadcast and have it on VHS, but for the life of me can't remember the Boy Scout claim. Mebbe have to have a look at it again.


No need, my friend. Looks like I've solved the 'Bonhomme' mystery :D ...as outlined in the above posts.

Thank G_d. I was really starting to fret :shock:

Regards,

Spartacus

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 Post subject: Re: Jean-Luc Chaumeil
PostPosted: 10 May 2011 9:12 pm 
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Chaumeil constantly relies on the Dagobert Parchment talking about PdC's loved one being killed "La Mort", and the phrase ""My dear Roseline, who died on 6 August 1967, the feast of the Transfiguration, while leaving the zero meridian by car."
I was wondering, has anyone checked the local papers for someone dying in a car crash near RLB, we have the day and the year so it should be possible to verify.
Any ideas people, were l'Independant or La Depeche or even Midi Libre around in 1967 as surely they would have covered a fatal car crash? I seem to remember someone posting a link to one of these papers back catalogue.
Regards
Nic


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 Post subject: Re: Jean-Luc Chaumeil
PostPosted: 11 May 2011 3:20 am 
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BULLDOGNIC wrote:
Chaumeil constantly relies on the Dagobert Parchment talking about PdC's loved one being killed "La Mort", .......

That always keeps me thinking of that farm called LA MORT near Luc-sur-Aude, the village of Elie Bot.


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 Post subject: Re: Jean-Luc Chaumeil
PostPosted: 12 May 2011 7:00 am 
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BULLDOGNIC wrote:
Chaumeil constantly relies on the Dagobert Parchment talking about PdC's loved one being killed "La Mort", and the phrase ""My dear Roseline, who died on 6 August 1967, the feast of the Transfiguration, while leaving the zero meridian by car."
I was wondering, has anyone checked the local papers for someone dying in a car crash near RLB, we have the day and the year so it should be possible to verify.
Any ideas people, were l'Independant or La Depeche or even Midi Libre around in 1967 as surely they would have covered a fatal car crash? I seem to remember someone posting a link to one of these papers back catalogue.
Regards
Nic



I think the road accident may have happened (if it happened) closer to Rodez than RLB.

It’s described in “Circuit” chapter VII (“Le Chariot”).

6 August 1967. Charlot meets Roseline in the evening near Rodez cathedral. Roseline drives. “Elle prend la 88 de Rodez à Alby[sic], passe devant la maison où fut perpétrée jadis l’abominable affaire Fualdès, et s’engage dans la departementale 574 de Saint-Martial. On passe sans ralentir devant N.D. de Ceignac.”

[“She takes the 88 Rodez to Albi, passes in front of the house where long ago the abominable Fualdès affair was perpetrated, and turns into the “departementale 574” from Saint-Martial. They pass without slowing down in front of N.D. de Ceignac.”]

(I think they are heading south to the hotel near the viaduct at Viaur where they are staying. But I do not understand the reference to the “departementale 574 de Saint-Martial”, which I can’t find anywhere near N.D. de Ceignac.)

Around midnight, Roseline starts to feel sleepy and the car starts wandering across the white line down the middle of the road. Suddenly, a fire-engine comes up behind them with its siren blaring.
“LA VOITURE DE POMPIERS: Pain-pont pain-pont pain-pont pain-pont pain-pont”

Roseline hits a humpback [hogback] in the road and loses control of the car which goes off the road and into a tree (a lime-tree). Charlot manages to get out and crawl to a farmhouse nearby. The farmer’s wife calls an ambulance and Charlot is taken to the hospital at Rodez. When he comes round, he asks where Roseline is, and is told that she has died.

“CHARLOT: Auf der Strasse steht ein Lindenbaum/Das hab’ ich zum ersten mal im Schlaf geruht/Unter den Lindenbaum.”

Paddy


Last edited by paddy on 12 May 2011 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Jean-Luc Chaumeil
PostPosted: 12 May 2011 7:14 am 
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which brings me round to my perennial question...did Philippe de Chérisey lose a close friend or girlfriend at that time ? Roscoe could never understand why i was asking.


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 Post subject: Re: Jean-Luc Chaumeil
PostPosted: 12 May 2011 7:47 am 
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btw...Saint Martial is just next to ND de Ceignac.


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 Post subject: Re: Jean-Luc Chaumeil
PostPosted: 12 May 2011 9:10 am 
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Sheila wrote:
btw...Saint Martial is just next to ND de Ceignac.


And the D574? The only D574 I can find is between Romans-sur-Isere and St-Bardoux?

Paddy


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 Post subject: Re: Jean-Luc Chaumeil
PostPosted: 12 May 2011 9:32 am 
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Quote:
passe devant la maison où fut perpétrée jadis l’abominable affaire Fualdès, et s’engage dans la departementale 574 de Saint-Martial. On passe sans ralentir devant N.D. de Ceignac


.....we need to find out where "La Maison Bancal" is situated i suppose.......and join up the dots .

ah, found the house, it was on la rue des Hebdomadiers....but they re-named it, probably to expunge the memory of the tragedy...it's now la Rue Séguy - "Ancienne rue des Hebdomadiers de Rodez"

http://books.google.fr/books?id=IU4n5Cd ... &q&f=false


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 Post subject: Re: Jean-Luc Chaumeil
PostPosted: 12 May 2011 9:48 am 
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I think they went right through the center of Rodez past the house & the cathedral, probably no rocade in those days?

please don't get bogged down by my red-herrings, i tend to go off on a tangent when i'm researching something.


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 Post subject: Re: Jean-Luc Chaumeil
PostPosted: 12 May 2011 9:57 am 
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so if we look at this with a different eye we find that modern tradition attributes St. Martial with the foundation of the church of Rodez and the sanctuary of the Blessed Virgin at Ceignac.


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 Post subject: Re: Jean-Luc Chaumeil
PostPosted: 12 May 2011 10:16 am 
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gets even more complicated because the 12 year old girl who implicated her parents in the murder was called Madeleine Bancal.

Suite du procès d'Albi : La petite Madeleine accuse ses parents

we'd need to read the "Histoire complète du procès de l'assassinat de M. Fualdès" to be able to understand the implications here, because it's pretty mega.

does this affair have something to do with l’évasion de Louis XVII de la prison du Temple.?


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 Post subject: Re: Jean-Luc Chaumeil
PostPosted: 12 May 2011 10:46 am 
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Sheila wrote:
gets even more complicated because the 12 year old girl who implicated her parents in the murder was called Madeleine Bancal.


Shades of Madeleine Blancassals, one of the author pseudonyms in the Priory documents, in that name.

Apologies for interrrupting the thread, merely a random thought. Blancassals being a derivation of the names of the two rivers at RLB, and their confluence, is obviously much more likely.


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 Post subject: Re: Jean-Luc Chaumeil
PostPosted: 12 May 2011 11:16 am 
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no apologies, keep going Richard, i'm glad someone is following....

Pourquoi l’assassinat de Fualdès, le 19 mars 1817, magistrat à Rodez. Est-ce parce qu’il avait été le confident de Duroc, lui-même confident de Joséphine et de Bonaparte ? Est-ce parce qu’il avait été au courant de l’évasion du Temple, et détenait des documents établissant de façon probante la survie de Louis XVII et son identité avec Naundorff ?


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 Post subject: Re: Jean-Luc Chaumeil
PostPosted: 12 May 2011 12:46 pm 
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Check out this name. Weird or what?

http://chezjoa.goodbb.net/t15284-l-affaire-fualdes

Quote:
is is the body of Mr. Fualdes former imperial procurator in Rodez. They had found the night before his cane near a handkerchief full of holes, street Hebdomadiers. He leaves a widow, has long been ill, and a son.
Survey conducted by the Police Commissioner Constans, it appears that the day before the start of the afternoon, he was Fualdes expect a bill of two thousand francs. She had been given by Mr Séguret, president of the Civil Court and the buyer of one of its fields. He was accompanied by his godson, Charles Bastide-Grammont.

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 Post subject: Re: Jean-Luc Chaumeil
PostPosted: 12 May 2011 3:06 pm 
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Sheila wrote:
btw...Saint Martial is just next to ND de Ceignac.





I think the St Martial being referred to must be the one near the Viaduc du Viaur (near where Charlot and Roseline were staying) . I’m not sure if this is the St Martial you meant as it must be over 20 miles away from Rodez and about 15 miles from ND de Ceignac on the N88 going from Rodez to Albi.

A German guide “Brücken am Weg” gives the directions to the viaduct and says to turn off the N88 at St Martial and reach the northern upper bridgehead direct on the D 574.” And it gives a map showing this.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=3xZbCs9rE6AC&lpg=PA108&dq=st-martial%20viaur%20D574&pg=PA108#v=onepage&q=D%20574&f=false

What is very odd is that this turning at St Martial and the D574 is mentioned in the passage in “Circuit” BEFORE Roseline and Charlot have even got past N-D de Ceignac, and is therefore completely out of sequence.

Perhaps,this is why the next sentence begins “ Drôle de chemin,mais Roseline a des initiatives incomprehénsibles...”

PdC is also at pains to mention on the previous page that the Viaduc de Viaur “ a la particularité d’être située sur le méridien 0 de Paris.”

Paddy


Last edited by paddy on 12 May 2011 4:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Jean-Luc Chaumeil
PostPosted: 12 May 2011 3:10 pm 
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Hi,

Two English language books on the subject:

Murder with a Double Tongue

The Murder of M. Fauldes

Regards,

Spartacus

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