Baphomet

bergeredearcadie · **Joined:** 07 Nov 2006 11:57 pm **Posts:** 3856

Im reading a new book by Frale on the Templars and the Shroud of 'Christ'.

Anyone read it yet?

tingra · **Posted:** 21 May 2011 10:15 pm

I haven’t read the book yet but this is an interesting Italian article about the words that are allegedly portrayed on the shroud….

http://www.christianismus.it/modules.ph ... 156&page=4
http://www.christianismus.it/modules.ph ... d=156&page
http://www.christianismus.it/modules.ph ... le&sid=157

bergeredearcadie · **Joined:** 07 Nov 2006 11:57 pm **Posts:** 3856

Thanks for that Tingra.

Im still reading it, but was very interested in these views.

I somehow have the feeling, when reading Frale, that she is certainly towing a party line ..... which is somewhat disappointing. If she is biased ... how can she be presenting a balanced view?

Anyway, i'll see as i read further ....

Very interesting to read about where all the nonsense about the 'Baphomet' first originated ....

TCP · **Posted:** 23 May 2011 6:44 pm

bergeredearcadie wrote:

I somehow have the feeling, when reading Frale, that she is certainly towing a party line ..... which is somewhat disappointing. If she is biased ... how can she be presenting a balanced view?

Given that she's an historian accredited by the Vatican, don't you think anything she writes is going to be viewed with a large dose of skepticism from some quarters, no matter how balanced her material is?

TCP

Caelum · **Posted:** 23 May 2011 8:36 pm

bergeredearcadie wrote:

...I somehow have the feeling, when reading Frale, that she is certainly towing a party line ..... which is somewhat disappointing. If she is biased ... how can she be presenting a balanced view?...

Whom does the Frale serve?

Sorry, couldn't resist going back for seconds!

Caelum · **Posted:** 23 May 2011 8:37 pm

TCP wrote:

bergeredearcadie wrote:

I somehow have the feeling, when reading Frale, that she is certainly towing a party line ..... which is somewhat disappointing. If she is biased ... how can she be presenting a balanced view?

Given that she's an historian accredited by the Vatican, don't you think anything she writes is going to be viewed with a large dose of skepticism from some quarters, no matter how balanced her material is?

TCP

She isn't just accredited by the Vatican, she works for them...

hotspur · **Joined:** 19 Feb 2011 12:02 pm **Posts:** 1451

Roger wrote:

do you honestly believe that the Vatican is hiding anything, or inventing anything about the Templars?

Hmmmm.... let's see...how about the TRUTH?

lovuian · **Posted:** 24 May 2011 5:38 am

I'm with TCP and Hot Spur and Caelum

lovuian · **Posted:** 24 May 2011 6:10 am

isn't it past your bedtime.... :roll:

bergeredearcadie · **Joined:** 07 Nov 2006 11:57 pm **Posts:** 3856

Whom does the Frale serve?

Sorry, couldn't resist going back for seconds!

:mrgreen:

bergeredearcadie · **Joined:** 07 Nov 2006 11:57 pm **Posts:** 3856

do you honestly believe that the Vatican is hiding anything, or inventing anything about the Templars?

LOL.

Oh Roger, with hand on heart, even i know that no-one knows the true answer to that one!!!
Not even the Vatican ....

As for Frale, if she works for the Vatican (which i didnt know) then she will be biased for the Vatican. Not saying its a bad thing ..... just that she may present her arguments subconsciously with that bias ......

bergeredearcadie · **Joined:** 07 Nov 2006 11:57 pm **Posts:** 3856

don't you think anything she writes is going to be viewed with a large dose of skepticism from some quarters,

By the phrase 'some quarters' are you referring to the loony DVC crowd?

I believe the links Tingra posted were criticisms directed at Frales interpretations of documents from people who certainly seem not to fit that bill, non?

wayward · **Posted:** 24 May 2011 8:11 pm

Roger wrote:

do you honestly believe that the Vatican is hiding anything

Well! Lets say they are.

Caelum · **Posted:** 24 May 2011 9:35 pm

bergeredearcadie wrote:

do you honestly believe that the Vatican is hiding anything, or inventing anything about the Templars?

As for Frale, if she works for the Vatican (which i didnt know) then she will be biased for the Vatican. Not saying its a bad thing ..... just that she may present her arguments subconsciously with that bias ......

Here's the official listing just for posterity sake:

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/ ... gGrT76_obA

TCP · **Posted:** 25 May 2011 12:14 am

hotspur wrote:

Roger wrote:

do you honestly believe that the Vatican is hiding anything, or inventing anything about the Templars?

Hmmmm.... let's see...how about the TRUTH?

Such as...?

TCP

TCP · **Posted:** 25 May 2011 12:15 am

lovuian wrote:

I'm with TCP and Hot Spur and Caelum

WAIT - what am I being tagged with? :shock:

TCP

TCP · **Posted:** 25 May 2011 12:27 am

Caelum wrote:

bergeredearcadie wrote:

do you honestly believe that the Vatican is hiding anything, or inventing anything about the Templars?

As for Frale, if she works for the Vatican (which i didnt know) then she will be biased for the Vatican. Not saying its a bad thing ..... just that she may present her arguments subconsciously with that bias ......

Here's the official listing just for posterity sake:

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/ ... gGrT76_obA

Interesting to note that she's listed as an "archive employee", not as a researcher or writer. On the other hand, I don't think the Vatican Publishing House publishes her work, so maybe she's not employed in that capacity. I wonder what she does for them?

TCP

TCP · **Posted:** 25 May 2011 12:51 am

bergeredearcadie wrote:

don't you think anything she writes is going to be viewed with a large dose of skepticism from some quarters,

By the phrase 'some quarters' are you referring to the loony DVC crowd?

I believe the links Tingra posted were criticisms directed at Frales interpretations of documents from people who certainly seem not to fit that bill, non?

Indeed not. From what I was able to make out with the aid of a translator, among other points, Frale is being critized for hypothesizing that Shroud of Turin was once held by the Templars. Should we then conclude that Templar possession of the Shroud is the Vatican's opinion on the matter?

TCP

TCP · **Posted:** 25 May 2011 1:00 am

bergeredearcadie wrote:

do you honestly believe that the Vatican is hiding anything, or inventing anything about the Templars?

LOL.

Oh Roger, with hand on heart, even i know that no-one knows the true answer to that one!!!
Not even the Vatican ....

As for Frale, if she works for the Vatican (which i didnt know) then she will be biased for the Vatican. Not saying its a bad thing ..... just that she may present her arguments subconsciously with that bias ......

What about in an instance where the Vatican has no predetermined position? We all know what happened to the Templars, I don't see how or why the Vatican might be trying to cover its tracks on that one, it all went down seven hundred years ago and nobody can claim damages.

Take, for example, what I just read in one of the criticisms posted above, re: Templar possession of the Shroud of Turin. Frale certainly wouldn't be the first to suggest it (wasn't it actually Picknett and Prince?), but have we ever seen the Vatican weigh in on it, for or against? Not that I'm aware of. If Frale is only touting the Vatican byline, then where's the great cover-up?

TCP

lovuian · **Posted:** 25 May 2011 1:16 am

the great Coverup dear ....is
why were the Templars hunted down and destroyed by the CHURCH!!!!!

Why were they burned at the stake for Heresy?

it seems this long lost document has found the Church clear of conscious in burning them at the stake
they were not Heretics
just

Bad Catholics

:roll:

that is why they Inquisition burned them

Now I'll hear the peanut gallery chime in that it was that big bad Phillip who burned them and tortured them
The document proves the Church is innocent

but then there is the problem of the hunting down of the Templars in other countries

the Church hunted them down and tortured and insisted the Kings of England try them as well as other countries

it wasn't Phillip then...Phillip's jurisdiction was FRANCE...not Britain or Scotland

perhaps Pope Benedict's goal as Pope is to tell the world that it wasn't the Church's fault

Is he convincing? ...all the Historians should be pleased "Documentation at last"...the church is innocent

Believe it or not

lovuian · **Posted:** 25 May 2011 4:09 am

I'm waiting
:roll:

lets hear what you think?Snookems :wink:

Cmon Lets hear some real FACTS

What was the crime of DeMolay? What was the crime of the Templars?
or
there was no crimes ....just Bad Catholics

who pronounced judgement
the Inquisition or the King of France

I know how the trials went down in England and Scotland....the Inquisition was there...not Phillip of France
so who REALLY was behind the Templars fall

hotspur · **Joined:** 19 Feb 2011 12:02 pm **Posts:** 1451

Roger wrote:

Oh right... "the peanut gallery"... your insufferable ignorance isn't at all as "cute" as you appear to think it is.

Roger you are such a dag.

You ask a question knowing the answers you are going to get.

Which then leaves you with the opening for your comeback.

Nicely set up.

Must be great sport for you.

hotspur · **Joined:** 19 Feb 2011 12:02 pm **Posts:** 1451

TCP wrote:

hotspur wrote:

Roger wrote:

do you honestly believe that the Vatican is hiding anything, or inventing anything about the Templars?

Hmmmm.... let's see...how about the TRUTH?

Such as...?

TCP

Wouldn't know.

Just my automatonic response to any question regarding the veracity of the Roman Church.

hotspur · **Joined:** 19 Feb 2011 12:02 pm **Posts:** 1451

lovuian wrote:

I'm with TCP and Hot Spur and Caelum

WAIT - what am I being tagged with? :shock:

rain · **Posted:** 25 May 2011 8:21 am

hotspur wrote:

lovuian wrote:

I'm with TCP and Hot Spur and Caelum

WAIT - what am I being tagged with? :shock:

You're the peanutty gallery.

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