Arcadia Discussion Zone

You'll need to ask an expert who knows something about the 16th century Flemish language. I'm sure there's a rational explanation, a lot of the contents found in Bosch's works can be (have been) explained that way.

That means " I don't know".....why does everybody make this so complicated. It's not a chicken, it's a Poussin and it's there in front of all your eyes. It's even on the altar for heavens sake.






It's significant.

Blah-blah-blah --- you would not be here discussing this if Plantard and Co did not invent the bogus "Teniers connection" in the first place.
It has everything to do with Pierre Plantard!

Absolute rubbish laddie...you're making it up as you go along...I know nothing about Plantard & all that bogus Teniers connection...I just happened to notice the chicken.

However..might I hasten to add that you & Roger & all the others think the POUSSIN is not important....if so....why the heck is it in the paintings....and there's at least 16 Temptations of St Anthony with this out of place chick in it.
Teniers was an Alchemist no?

There are about 250 paintings of St Anthony that Teniers the Younger executed. And now you know that Teniers the Younger has come here as a result of Plantard.

And there is where your theory falls apart, Sheila.

The birds in the paintings are not "poussins", but "poulets". They have fully developed combs. Birds of four weeks or younger would not.

TCP

That's right - Mr Carmain has joined numerous Catholic groups without informing them that he is a neo-Pagan, because he'd get chucked out of them if he did that.

No..TCP.....sorry but you are wrong.

They are specifically NOT poulets as they have no tail feathers...all my chicks ( and I have a lot of various breeds ) all develop their young immature combs before they develop tail feathers.....

Those paintings of " Temptation of St Anthony" specifically show a POUSSIN.

He also has a very pronounced vent so that you can see exactly what he is doing.

What does it matter???

You started it mate....I'm not the one bletherin' on .....you seem to want to inflame the conversation with these back & forwards quick fire replies that are getting us nowhere.
However..... thanks to you maybe this conversation might actually get somewhere!

And... dinner tonight chez nous is actually " Oven ready Poussin " and looking at the size of him, he'll feed four.

Voila!.......le petit poussin.

What does it matter???

Um, sorry Sheila, I don't think so. Teniers painted some fat birds with developed combs. More than four weeks old.

If your bird will feed four, it is definitely not four weeks old or younger.

TCP

You'll get yer heid in yer hauns & yer lugs tae play wi in a minute if you keep on like that....
Anyway ma tea's oot & I'm off to eat ...... with a bottle of good bubbly that I never got round to last night.

Bon appetit.

What does it matter???

Yer tea's oot? Crikey...

TCP

TCP.....these are oven ready poussins...



Personally I can't believe we are having this conversation....our poussins at 28 days weigh about 1Kg

If Teniers had wanted to paint a chicken...he would have painted a chicken....he didn't he painted a poussin!

Well, I guess four poussins would feed four! They look delicious, BTW. But how could anyone know what Teniers intended to paint? I'd surmise that if he intended to paint a poussin, he wouldn't have given it a fully developed comb. Otherwise people might think it's just a chicken.

TCP

There appears to be two problems here. What precisely is being depicted above these jars; and what is it contributing to the contents of the vessel?

Is the poussin a pun, or a symbol for something else, and why are these jars depicted standing on a window ledge?

John

http://vads.ahds.ac.uk/large.php?pic=NT ... ick+Castle)


The Temptation of St Anthony
Artist Teniers, David, II (Flemish painter, 1610-1690)
Date Earliest probably about 1630
Date Latest 1690

Description

Paintings of the Temptation of St Anthony make up a significant proportion of Teniers's oeuvre, and constitute the largest group amongst his religious works. The artist explored the theme throughout his career and over a period of thirty years, from around the mid-1630s to the mid-1660s, produced between one and two hundred variations on the subject. Teniers re-used and adapted the same iconography and motifs again and again. The panel at Brodick contains much imagery that reappears in variation in other works. St Anthony is represented as an old man in monk's habit, with the Greek letter tau on his shoulder. He is shown in a dark grotto, signifying the tombs he withdrew to as a hermit, the meagre furnishings of which include an hourglass (held tauntingly by one of the demons), books and a skull - references to his learning and devotion to monastic life, with its ideals of endless contemplation of eternity and frailty of human life. A flask of water, here on the window sill, was commonly used by Teniers as a symbol of Anthony's asceticism. Popular motifs employed in countless other paintings include demons in form of lions, serpents and dragons, some dressed in monk's habits, as well as other creatures associated with the devil, such as frogs, bats, crabs and 'serras' or flying fish.

The unusual motif of a defecating egg, bearing a chicken's head and feet, appears in nearly all of Tenier's 'Temptations' - here shown fouling the saint's drinking water, perched on the rim of the jug.

Paul

Thanks for posting this art description, but how confident are you that his commentary upon Teniers work is accurate?

John

It always was an egg with chicken's legs and head - a play on the "chicken and the egg" conundrum for a guess, going back at least to the time of Plutarch.

Zoom in on the images. They indeed are eggs with chicken heads and feet. Perhaps a depiction of the classic conundrum of which came first, the chicken or the egg, soiling the pure vessel of man's imagination. Bosch's rendering also shows an egg with wings spread in flight. Was Teniers elaborating on an established theme?

TCP

It always was an egg with chicken's legs and head - a play on the "chicken and the egg" conundrum for a guess, going back at least to the time of Plutarch.

Thanks TCP

I did zoom in and they do appear (to my suburban brain) to be small chickens. However, I think your "soiling the pure vessel of man's imagination" might be an interpretation too far, even for this quirky painting.

John