Arcadia Discussion Zone

The Catholic organisation that uses Don Duarte's name may me "legitimate" up to a point, but how it is actually run by those in charge is open to question, and there are are those who say that it is mismanaged allowing all sorts of dubious people to become members (coming from a Portuguese source).

Again, Mr Carmain's criteria to be regarded as a "Marques" has to be decided by historians and relevant authorities who compile the official history and reference books. Until Mr Carmain's claim appears in such sources (the Portuguese or Spanish equivalent of "Who's Who in Royalty"), his "Title" and "Coat of Arms" can be regarded as being unofficial in nature.

Not if it's a title that was created for me. There is no historical precedent for it, it's a new creation. I'm not the Vizconde de Perellós nor have I ever claimed to be. I published the entire list of holders of that title from its creation down to the present day under another topic heading on this forum the last time you tried to get my attention (and yes, I knew it was you as I'd been alerted that you were simultaneously trying to stir up dust on the newsgroups - they know who you are too). Don't you think I'd put my own name on that list if I were making such a claim?



I'm not a government official or employee.



And what would these organizations gain from having an American nonentity like me on its membership rolls that would prompt them to compromise their integrity? It would be pretty stupid of them to put their reputations in doubt for my sake.



Similar? It's the same rendering by the same artist. You'll find his work on the Burke's Peerage website as well. He has been commissioned by several royal houses.



So "dubious" that it is now listed as a bona fide dynastic order in Burke's World Orders of Knighthood and Merit, edited by the eminent Guy Stair Sainty. You seem to be under the impression that Mr. Sainty's problem was with me and not with the former head of the order. Once the latter was removed and replaced by another prince appointed by the head of the Imperial house, Mr. Sainty and I have had no issues, and in fact have corresponded quite amicably.



The Portuguese government and the Associação da Nobreza Histórica de Portugal recognize only one legitimate claimant - the one who lives on a former royal estate now owned by the Portuguese Republic. That would be Dom Duarte. His "rival" is an Italian who maintains he was adopted by a woman claiming to have been an illegitimate daughter of a Portuguese king. He is rotting away in prison at the moment. Not much merit to that dispute. Futhermore, the Portuguese government allows Dom Duarte to award the historical dynastic orders which were never assumed by the Republic - the Ordem de Nossa Senhora de Conceição de Vila Viçosa and the Real Ordem de São Miguel da Ala (his wife heads the Real Ordem de Santa Isabel), which are authorized to be worn by Portuguese citizens. The government only restricts heraldic and titular concessions made to Portuguese nationals, not to foreigners.



"Most probably"? You seem to have lost your certainty, Paul. In the past you've covered the full spectrum, first accusing me of forgery and then claiming I'd hoodwinked the issuing authorities. Now you're claiming they're simply lax. Why don't you pick one explanation and stick to it if you're so certain there's something amiss? You are horrifically misinformed about the regulation of heraldic authority in Spain, which falls under the purview of the Ministerio de Gracia y Justicia. Here, educate yourself so you can come up with a better explanation next time:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_heraldry

TCP

Nope, it didn't cost me one penny. In fact, in an odd and unlikely sort of way, if it wasn't for Smith, Coppens and Douzet, I probably wouldn't have any of it. Fantastic irony.

TCP

Fortunately one doesn't exist for my family name or I would have had one!



What a superb and REAL Coat of Arms. I would love one!

A disgruntled Portuguese source who would probably jump at the chance to be admitted, no doubt. The newsgroups you mine for mud to sling are full of such people who can't stand the idea of anyone they consider less deserving than their exalted selves gaining anything that eludes them. The irony is that when they look for stinkbombs to lob at me, their source for such "gems" is (or was) your website. Talk about a vicious circle - they parrot your own libels back to you and you think you've hit paydirt.



As long as I have documentation of admission to a Royal Spanish noble confraternity of hijosdalgo signed by a Cronista commissioned by the Spanish Crown and the Ministry of Grace and Justice, and my name is entered on the rolls along with the title, I think that will suffice. At least as far as two of the most well-known and prolific historians and authors on matters chivalric, nobiliary, and heraldic - who happen to be personal friends of mine - are concerned. What you choose to believe or accept is really not of interest to me.

TCP

If you contacted one of these on-line coat-of-arms mills and told them your surname is Rumpelstilskin, they'd have one for you, trust me.



The College of Arms in the UK will design and register one for you so long as you're not claiming a blason rightfully belonging to anyone else.

TCP

So, in your estimation, the head of the Portuguese royal house and the Spanish Crown are susceptible to dubious means and simply hand out honors like Halloween candy to anyone who wants them? If that were the case, then all the old biddies on the newsgroups who find you so entertaining wouldn't be quite so disgruntled.

TCP

Mr Carmain fails to impress. His Title and Coat-of-Arms need to be referenced by an authority in such matters, and they are not. Mr Carmain is right however about one thing - that it is all a one-off gimmick.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfonso_Ceballos-Escalera_y_Gil

"Alfonso de Ceballos-Escalera y Gila, Contreras-Girón y González de Navia, Marques of La Floresta, Duke of Ostuni in Naples and Lord of the Castle of Arbeteta. The Marques of La Floresta is more popularly known by his official designation as Cronista de Armas of Castile and Leon. Author of many books on jurispudence, royalty, nobility, heraldry and genealogy, the Spanish Cronista numbers among his credentials several doctoral degrees in the fields of law, the science of politics, and of history. He is also a Captain (Teniente de Navío OF-2) in the Spanish Navy and in the Merchant Marine Fleet. Among the decorations and honors bestowed upon the Cronista are several crosses and awards of various Orders of Chivalry including that of the Royal and Distinguished Order of Charles III of Spain....As a Spanish Cronista, the heraldic office of Don Alfonso Ceballos-Escalera y Gila dates back to the 16th century. Like the rest of the Spanish Cronistas, he has judicial powers in matters of nobiliary titles. His office also serves as a registration office for pedigrees and grants of arms. At present, under the supervision of the Spanish Ministry of Justice the Cronistas grant arms to residents of areas currently or formerly under the government of the Spanish Crown.

This gentleman's signature on a document which (a) lists my name and title, and (b) states categorically that my arms are authorized for use in Spain, makes you look a little desperate - and obsessed.

TCP

This is the kind of thing that Mr Carmain is referring to:
http://www.armorial-register.com/arms-e ... -arms.html

Official Coats-of-Arms available for all members.
All you have to do is to join the relevant organisation.

Except that Mr Carmain's claims about his lineage have been dismissed by Francois Velde, Guy Stair Sainty and Christopher Buyers.

Read their acceptance policy, Paul. Burke's Peerage does not accept uncertified arms for publication:

http://www.armorial-register.com/acceptance-policy.html



No, they haven't. In fact by their own admission not one of them knows or cares a whit about my lineage. My past disagreements with them had nothing to do with my ancestry, but with the legitimacy of an order I belong to which has since been resolved - as published by Burke's Peerage in their tome on chivalric orders edited by Mr. Sainty himself. I know you'll beat this dead horse to bloody mush as you always do, given your extreme pathological obsession with me, but you're out of your depth as usual. How fortunate that you have at least one safe spot to vent your spleen without fear of banishment.

TCP

Mr Carmain should now register his Coat-of-Arms on the online “Burke’s Peerage & Gentry – International Register of Arms” and provide details of his lineage, so it can then be checked and endorsed by a professional genealogist.

What a great idea, Paul. I'd gladly pay the £100.00 if it would silence you, although I'm certain you would simply alter your trajection yet again and continue your obsessive harrassment from another angle (as you've done for eight years running). If Dr. Corona successfully registered his arms with the exact same certification I have, then it should be a fairly fast and simple procedure. Isn't it odd, though, that your estimation of Burke's Peerage has changed so dramatically in the space of a single post? One minute it's nothing but a cheap buy-in, the next it's a credible organization. Usually it takes a long string of posts for you to complete a desperate volte-face. You must be low on ammunition.

TCP

I am sure that Doctor Sergio Antonio Corona Paez, the example given from the “Burke’s Peerage & Gentry – International Register of Arms”, is a genuine Roman Catholic individual with a legitimate historical pedigree and right to the honours listed, and not a neo-pagan calling himself “Janicot” and (also) a member of a California-based Witches Meetup Group who became member of several Roman Catholic organisations in order to obtain a one-off Title and one-off Coat-of-Arms as part of an offbeat vendetta against the Societe Perillos.

The Spanish Cronistas Reyes de Armas is not the equivalent of the King of Arms in England or the Lord Lyon in Scotland, so such a nonsense could never occur in the United Kingdom.

Mr Carmain’s genealogical claims still need to be verified by a professional genealogist.

Oh dear! DVB did you ever find an emoticon for yawn?

I'm glad to see that Mr Norton is alive and posting. Perhaps his website will be up and running again soon? It is more useful than every other RLC website in existence put together.

No doubt.



I thought you said I was a Satanist? I do wish you'd make up your mind. I recall after once posting that one of the Marquis de Sade's great-great-grandmothers was a Carmain, you determined that I was the leader of an international sado-masochistic sex ring. You are determined, I'll give you that.



You are sadly misinformed. I guess if the only way you can effectively libel me is to libel the Spanish heraldic authorities, you'll stop at nothing.



One doesn't obtain authorization to bear ancestral arms in Spain without proving one's ancestry, Paul. I guess that's why you keep banging away with your libels against the Spanish Cronistas - in your perfect, conspiratorial, tiny little world, inconvenient details like this don't fit your obsessive agenda.

TCP

Sorry - not my forum! Even if I stop replying he'll continue. He's been stalking me obsessively for eight years, and as long as he has free reign to run amok, he'll continue.

TCP

No Libel, the fact that the Spanish Cronistas Reyes de Armas is not the equivalent of the King of Arms in England or the Lord Lyon in Scotland comes from experts in Heraldry, and Mr Carmain has to provide proof of his lineage bearing that in mind.

The Spanish Cronistas do not play a ceremonial role as their British counterparts do, nor is there a centralized College of Arms as heraldic registration in Spain is treated as copyright and under the purview of the Ministry of Grace and Justice. However, to assert that they have no standards or authority, as you have done, is libelous. Sorry, Paul, but I've done the footwork and obtained the certification. If you honestly believe that I have the ability to alter Spanish records to fit my agenda, then you are free to do so.

TCP

Mr Carmain has obtained certification for a one-off "Title" and one-off "Coat-of-Arms". I am sure that the Spanish cater for similar-minded Title Collectors like Mr Carmain.

Maybe someone should start a new thread for airing old grievances!

Now there's a constructive idea! I thought Paul had been banned from this forum. Apparently that wasn't the case.

TCP

Maybe he's turned over a new leaf as regards abusive remarks ? And perhaps he'll be less of a control freak if and when he opens his own forum ?

"Without freedom of speech, I might be in a swamp"

Bob Dylan - "Motorpsycho Nightmare"

And Pravda was an excellent newspaper too !