Arcadia Discussion Zone

Welcome to the 2012 Forum Thread.

As you will soon gather, I remain unconvinced about 2012. But please, do prove me wrong.

Firstly, the entire Mayan prophecy that 2012 is end of days – or a spiritual awakening (spare me) stems from a single 7th century inscription in Mexico that is ambiguous at best, not to mention partially defaced. In fact, many believe that the inscription is not only NOT apoplectic, but that it speaks of a future celebration! And if this prophecy is so important, why does it appear only once?

Secondly, much has been made of this entirely ambiguous prophecy, and that it foretells doom and gloom, when in fact it simply states ‘Black…will occur.’ The best example of an extrapolation of this ‘apoplectic interpretation’ is the Galactic Alignment theory that states that an astronomical alignment will cause various natural disasters ranging from comets pelting the earth to pole shifts and earth crust displacement. Scientist scorn at the suggestion, and even the staunchest supporters acknowledge that the alignment in question was at its most acute and significant displacement in 1988 and that the alignment spans a 36 year period.

Many civilisations have folklore that speak of a pending end of an age or epoch, and that we are living in the last. And yes, many ancient civilisations appear to demonstrate knowledge of precession; not the Mayan’s, coincidently, but others. Might their end of day prophecies refer to the end of the great year, or the 26,000 year passage through each constellation? If so, then even the most optimistic scholar, astronomer and astrologer, calculate that it will be decades, if not hundreds of years before we pass from Pisces into Aquarius, completing the cycle.

Lastly, sun spot cycles, a common ‘alternative history’ method of measuring the cyclical fertility and success of civilisations – their rise and fall, in essence – predict a calm and uneventful cycle in and around 2012. So what have 2012 proponents proposed in its place? ‘I Ching’ is now the new ‘black’ and believers are developing computer programs to support their theories. Sadly, the only thing I see being promoted is themselves, and their bank accounts.

I believe that man has always felt he was living in end of days – in the last epoch. It afforded him poetic license and created an opportunity to be judgemental, and to manipulate others. I believe that today, the only difference is it allows man to make a profit, as well. That said, I believe that a natural disaster could happen at any moment. I don’t believe that 2012 has any significance whatsoever, however. But then again what do I know? I am not an expert, and if I have some of this wrong I hope you can set me straight.

My opinion is constantly changing on all sorts of subjects, and it may change on this one as well. With your help I’m sure it will.

That’s what I think.

Now it’s your turn; )

Best,

Andrew

Why don't you ask Mayan people themselves?

Let's bear in mind there is no "2012" in their calendar.

They don't count years the way we do.

Is the 13th baktun of the Long Count approaching? Well, yes. But did they ever think the end of the Long Count marked the end of the world?

Even the Maya are getting sick of the 2012 hype
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33261483/

MEXICO CITY - Apolinario Chile Pixtun is tired of being bombarded with frantic questions about the Mayan calendar supposedly "running out" on Dec. 21, 2012. After all, it's not the end of the world.

Or is it?

Definitely not, the Mayan elder insists. "I came back from England last year and, man, they had me fed up with this stuff."

[snip]

Chile Pixtun, a Guatemalan, says the doomsday theories spring from Western, not Mayan, ideas.

[snip]

Spooky, perhaps, but Bernal notes there are other inscriptions at Maya sites for dates far beyond 2012 — including one that roughly translates into the year 4772.

[snip]

The calculation for the date 2012 results from the prophecied number of Baktuns
added to their date of creation, which is deduced by the 2012 author,
not by the Mayans.

The Utah church has the Mayans originating from 6th c. BC Israel. Using the modern Hebrew
calendar year as the foundation and adding the Baktun years to the Hebrew
year of Creation, the result is 1945 or so, which was a cataclysmic year to be sure, especially for the Hebrews, from whom the Mayans descended. That is to say, "2012" occured in 1945.

The actual Mayan iconography is so far out that it is difficult for the Western classically oriented mind to comprehend. Their god was that little ugly fellow seen on the top of the staffs held by their kings. He is called "god K" by archaeologists. He is seen by the Mayans as an infant who requires blood to survive. The Mayans are encouraged by him to adopt him and provide him with blood. Divination using small tossed crystals and red seeds with yellow pollen determines the will of god K.
In the Mayan ruins, tiny rooms are found which have entrances from the roof, these were the abodes of god K whom I call "Little Ugly Face". It is he who is depicted in Mayan sculptures. His tongue protrudes because he is hungry for blood.
This information is from an interview with a practitioner of the old religion.

This is god K, isn`t he cute?

2012, "The end of the world is nigh!" etc.

There was a similar sense of panic with the millennium bug of 2000. What with the civilization we take for granted being run by computers, no one knew how the technology would handle the change in numericals; '1999' might reset itself to '0000'. The fear was based on the possibility that defence warheads would go off, their computer systems having been tripped, and mass chaos and disorder would be the resulting man-made disaster. But... nothing happened. Phew.

Polar shifts aside, we humans tend to forget we are just guests on the planet. A guest that has taken without replacing properly, exploited resources, dumped a load of toxic rubbish and then expected the host to deal with it. So we very well might expect to get thrown out!

Am quite sure the planet will know how to deal with its 'polar shifts'... so no need to loose touch with gravity just yet...

Thanks for the debate guys.

C'mon. There must be someone who believes in 2012. Please do not be intimidated by the initial opinion of those of us on this thread...

Best,

Andrew

2012 - it is said to also mark the end of a 26,000 yr. Precession of the Equinoxes cycle.

Does that mean that The Age of Aquarius will begin?

I`d like to think of it that way.

"Alligator Headdress" by MJA/Renne.

O.K. Andrew, I`m a believer.

Well


I believe 2012 is all about just like the Mayan's say
the Black comes

I believe Nibiru or Planet X (or as some guys hope Planet XXX)
Nibiru for those who don't know is our Binary twin


Nibiru, which he believes to be in an elongated, elliptical orbit in the Earth's own Solar System
Nibiru would be "the Black"
We are just learning about Dark Matter and we have discovered it
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/11/081119-dark-matter-antarctica.html

Anne Minard
for National Geographic News
November 19, 2008

High-energy electrons captured over Antarctica could reveal the presence of a nearby but mysterious astrophysical object that's bombarding Earth with cosmic rays, researchers say.

Or the electrons may be the long-awaited physical evidence of elusive dark matter.

Either way, the unusual particles are exciting for astrophysicists, who say they could someday confirm or deny decades of unproven theories.

"In the first case, we have now seen for the first time a nearby source of cosmic rays. Nobody's seen that before," said study co-author John Wefel, a physicist at Louisiana State University in Baton Rouge.

"In the second case, we may be seeing something even more stupendous."


Kobe University has confirmed the mathematical possibility of Nibiru
A planet roughly the size of Earth could be tracing a vast, elliptical orbit at the outer edge of our solar system—and astronomers in Japan think they know where to find it.

My You tube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qul0f8P6T3U

A binary system is an astronomical term referring to two objects in space (usually stars, but also planets, galaxies or asteroids) which are so close that their gravitational interaction causes them to orbit about a common center of mass.

They are the Majority in OUR BIG UNIVERSE
our system is a minority


Here is a death ray Binary that is scary
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23558888/wid/11915773/

A beautiful pinwheel in space might one day blast Earth with death rays, scientists say.

Unlike the moon-sized Death Star from Star Wars, which has to get close to a planet to blast it, this blazing spiral has the potential to burn worlds from thousands of light-years away.

"I used to appreciate this spiral just for its beautiful form, but now I can't help a twinge of feeling that it is uncannily like looking down a rifle barrel," said researcher Peter Tuthill, an astronomer at the University of Sydney.



"Wolf-Rayet stars are regarded by astronomers as ticking bombs," Tuthill explained. The 'fuse' for this star "is now very short — to an astronomer — and it may explode any time within the next few hundred thousand years."

When the Wolf-Rayet goes supernova, "it could emit an intense beam of gamma rays coming our way," Tuthill said. "If such a 'gamma ray burst' happens, we really do not want Earth to be in the way."

Since the initial blast would travel at the speed of light, there would be no warning of its arrival.

I guess I have respect for those ancient astronomers out there
I think they are warning us


bring it on Andrew

Cheers Lovuian, for that interesting post.

Planet X huh? I've read about that for years. Fascinating for sure. It's just so ironic that a civilisation that would have visibility to something like the return of Planet X could not prevent their own extinction. But that's an interesting one!

Keep em coming. Maybe we open a Planext X topis in this thread...???

Best!

Andrew

Revelation 8:11
the name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters turned bitter, and many people died from the waters that had become bitter

We have lots of CO2 in the air and our oceans may become acidic ...in the future

The Planet can be calmed many things Nemeses Wormwood Marduk


Astronomers using NASA's Spitzer Space Telescope have observed that planetary systems — dusty disks of asteroids, comets, and possibly planets — are at least as abundant in twin-star systems as they are in those, like our own, with only one star. Since more than half of all stars are twins, or binaries, the finding suggests the universe is packed with planets that have two suns. Sunsets on some of those worlds would resemble the ones on Luke Skywalker's planet, Tatooine, where two fiery balls dip below the horizon one by one.

"There appears to be no bias against having planetary system formation in binary systems," said David Trilling of the University of Arizona, Tucson, lead author of a new paper about the research appearing in the April 1 issue of the Astrophysical Journal. "There could be countless planets out there with two or more suns."

http://www.astronomy.com/asy/default.aspx?c=a&id=5402

The ancient Maya built observatories and aligned their most important buildings with the movements of celestial bodies such as the Sun and the Pleiades. Chichén Itzá, in the Peninsula of Yucatan in México, is considered one of the most magnificent archeological sites in the world, giving us a glimpse of the splendor and sophistication of an ancient Mayan metropolis ruled by the heavens.

One of the most stunning buildings in Chichén Itzá is El Caracol (Spanish for “the spiral”), a circular astronomical observatory built on a large square platform. There is a spiral stone staircase inside the building, which leads to the top observatory chamber designed with windows for astronomical observations. From those windows, Mayan astronomers noted the positions of the Sun, the Moon’s greatest northern and southern declinations, and the passages of Venus. They used the shadows inside the room cast from the angle of the Sun hitting the doorway, for example, to tell when the solstices would occur.
http://www.kuxansuum.net/page8.php



The Dresden Codex is considered the most beautiful and complete of the Mayan books. Made of the amatl paper, the 74-page richly illustrated book is folded accordion-style and written and painted on both sides. Its basic colors are red, black and the so-called Mayan blue, a turquoise color that resembles the bright hue of the Caribbean sea. The Dresden Codex supports the reputation of the Maya as having been accomplished astronomers. This gorgeous Maya document contains astronomical calculations, tables, and data that are remarkably accurate.

Not bad for a country who didn't have computers

The Maya called the Milky Way galaxy World Tree, which was represented by a tall tree, the Ceiba, reaching up to where all life came from.

The Maya also referred to the Milky Way as the Wakah Chan, which means “White Boned Serpent.” They believed to be connected to the cosmos. In fact, Kuxan Suum is a Mayan concept that means literally the “path in the sky to the center of the universe.”
The Maya regarded everything as closely related to their notion of time. For them, the need to record and to determine certain events in time, as well as the need to foresee the regular occurrence of astronomical, religious and social events, resulted in the invention of one of the most accurate calendars in history. The Maya calendar is considered the most complex, intricate and accurate among ancient calendars.

The Tree of Life in a mural from Teotihuacan, Mexico.

It is guarded by a "Netted Jaguar" in a headdress and framed by
the Feathered Serpent, also from Teotihuacan.
(Colorized by MJA/Renne)

Another version of the Teotihuacan Tree of Life
guarded by the Netted Jaguar. It is very similar to the ancient
Middle Eastern Tree of Life which is guarded by lions.

THIS IS WHAT A THINK.

I think asking a straight scientist to deal with matter will only detract from the true and noble nature of Prophecies.
They have been and will always be the domain of Priests.
Priests specifically trained and educated to deal with the ancient records recorded in ancient languages and aural traditions associated with the decoding of the Prophecies.
When there there is interaction between Priests and the various councils and churches around the world it is not considered a conspiracy it is considered meetings.
Nothing more and Nothing less.
If action is therein taken at these meetings than how is it can it be considered that it is conspiracy to fufill prophecy when it is only a reaction to deal with these prophecies.
The infra-structure surrounding the prophecies is vastly networked around the globe.
It includes divisions, scientific data, modification of rituals, dissemination of information, various orders and preparations in other words, CHANGE.
When Priests are sent out to try and educate the public they are met with dirision and cynicism.
The greater public has only itself to blame when questions like the 2012 prophecies, only a very small part of a plethora of traditional prophecies associated with change is promalgated like a hollywood apocalyptic blockbuster.
They want the easy answer. The answer that gives a date. They want an answer outside themselves because it makes the notion that they had no part in events taking place a palatable self-serving concept easier to swallow. It's someone else's fault despite the fact they have to live with consequences.
It's a get a out of jail free card for the fundamental lassier-faire attitude to the global materialism that has invaded our notions of personal, national and global responsibility and a finger to anything that may be considered anything religious or philosophical.
How can it be G-d taking a stick and whacking our collective arses, like children who do not know better when we all subscribe to the scientific viability of cause and effect.
A better notion than we might be able to pay attention, diligently study and change our ways to mitigate some of the global changes taking place.
After all most of the prohecies deal with notion of free will and allow us to repent, the only difference now is we do not have a choice, we take the hit but it is only the degree to which we will have to take that is our decision and our responsibility.

Well, as ya know Ross Perot used the expression, the devil is in the numbers. The Mayans had no pre-conceived notion of a Pope Gregory who would come along, consult with astronomers in order to re-align Planet Earth time with celestial - lunar time.

So the idea of a fixed number 2012 is moot at best, what is it relative to? Did the Mayans know when Jesus was gonna be born when they created their own cosmology?

IMHO, some practical jokers in the Verne vein saw a chance to spook the world and ran with thus new agey 'thang'. So if ya point fingers at some thing as the devil in all of this blame it on Alice Bailey and her Lucis Publishing biz.

Now, if the devil has been eavesdroppin' on intergalactic celestial commo 'tween Angels as to when to pre-position themself at the 4 corners of the universe when its their turn to unleash a Satan + his horde in the great apostasy, then who knows, Bailey may have been channeled as she sez, the devil knows his own, yes?

Christ ordains his 12 in Mesoamerica.

Yes, Jake, the Mayans did have the prophecies of Christ`s birth.
There were signs given and fulfilled, both at his birth and at his death.

Has anyone thought to ask where the Pole is going to shift. i.e. what degree?

If the pole shifts suddenly then short term obviously it will create catastrophic problems, but if it shifts gradually we might not notice as such and where will be it's end, angle?
As it's been pointed out the axis allows us to have seasonal change but if the Pole shifts to perpendicular we will not have the seasonal change.

Well, this is very complex. I think that its not just about Mayan Prophecies, the thing is that many other issues, like in almost no other era in history converge in something that its called by catholic church "Jubilee" which is the Saint Year and take place only each 50 years (source:The levitic), as well as one of the mayan calendars take place each 52 years. Thats the sacred calendar.

Another one is the civil mayan calendar which is conformed by 365 days AND the "large count" which finishes on december 21th 2012.

The next catholic Jubilee will be on 2023, but can be certain variations since we follow the gregorian calendar, so it may be on 2016. But the real problem its that many other prophets think that the next decade will be not that hopeful, like Nostradamus or Malaquias who thinks that Benedict XVI will be the last pope before Peter II.

I think that they are right but not for the reasons they could have at that moment

What if the pole reverses polarity as Einstein postulated. Oh well least I can swim.

Hope that can be considered as the worst scenario

Rain it wasn't just Einstein
it was Edgar Cayce

who predicted pole shift

If it happened physically and quickly like some think then the land masses would roll over into a friction created molten state and the exploding oceans would blow the atmosphere way. Nothing would survive, not cockroaches, not even bacterium.

Not going to happen.

A magnetic pole shift is not going to shift any of the Earth's crust or landmass. Nor will the Earth flip over in space.

There have been several such shifts in the past, where the Earth's N and S magnetic poles have switched places.

It appears they do cause mass extinctions, but apparently, mostly for the reason that they confuse and disorient animal migration.

Serendipity did also correctly point out that such shifts are also preceded by a weakening of the Van Allen belts, which also leads to some extinctions from greater cosmic ray exposure and higher rates of mutation.

Good article on the subject from NASA. The north magnetic pole has moved quite a bit, even in the last 2 centuries.
http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/lookin ... field.html

The Homo Erectus survived the last magnetic pole reversion. Dont be so alarmist. Bacteria do very well almost in all kind of circumpstances. But I still cant believe on that theory at all, first because its based on Iron sediments in the center or near the center of the earth. Our planet acts like a magnetic dipole, theres very, very few probabilities that they had catch a "polarity shift", I cant believe it, theres not prob at all for that.

On the other hand,could be not so serious as an atomic armagedon, or other kind of thinks that COULD happen in the NEAR future.... and yah I dont need to do research to live like Seeker lol

just kidding

To clarify I was not on the magnetic pole shift, which all above I agree with, but a shift physically, the earth quickly standing on it's head so to speak.
Some of the 2012 scenarios actually go this far and ridiculously.
Some geologist postulate how if that occurred suddenly there would be no difference between the surface and the magma layers now beneath.

That wouldn't be very conducive to life as we know it.

Superman won't let it happen anyway, he'll push away Nirbiru when it gets here too.