Arcadia Discussion Zone

Thank-you David. It helps very much. I've been aware of the mirroring effect for so long but most scientific explanations are only that it exists and here are the filters you use to overcome this problem but never a true explanation such as what you've provided. I think I'm going to try and adapt and intergrate your advice so I can better meditate.

I knew how hard this question so I am grateful for your explanation. Considering some of the work I've read on conciousness has come from some of the best physicists and paranormal researchers in the U.S. I think you did a really good job of explaining it in just a few paragraphs.

"Thank you David ,for your last answer.I hadnt read your book just recently,so i got it out again and you do mention the ley lines.I believe in good and evil ,i just dont believe in it within the context of this thing that was seen.To christians ,everything has to be black or white.I believe that there are parts of the human subconcious ,within us,that lock in to certain forces outside us."

Thanks for that, Claemonde. First, sorry I never got back before, but it has just been one of those weekends - especially being Easter! I will still have to come back to this though as I believe it needs more detailed explanation and more than just a 'thank you' (on my part). Essentially you were pointing out that why should witnessed entities (such as the one witnessed by many people at Highgate) be automatically categorised as 'evil'?

I'm probably in full agreement with you, as I do not believe they should be.

Personally, I do not accept the existence of 'intelligent evil forces' (which includes the so-called 'devil') in that they are not 'outside intelligences' as such. Evil in this human world undoubtably exists; but it exists only as a product of the human mind itself; or in other words, no human thought patterns - no evil. The evil some people tend to credit in this world is NOT some 'outside intelligent force'; only human thought interpretes it as such. (Hence the projection of the idea of 'demons', 'vampires' and 'evil spitits' for one thing).

But let me come back to this again. It is a subject that has always concerned me, so at least it deserves to be explained properly from my point of view. Evil exists, of course, but it does so solely as the result of human thinking.

For the moment,

David

Hello David.Thanks for your last answer.The subject of outside influences,as opposed to things within ourselves is something that has always interested me.Anthony asked if i was a pagan,and i can see now,i have always been one,but i never knew what one was until i grew up.I just didnt have the word for it,so i grew up feeling very confused.I was always aware of the powers of the mind,when i was a little kid ,but so many people were so right wing and religious,it confused me terribly. One thing i have learned ,is that you cant become a pagan,you either are or you arent,inside.Highgate must be a truely fascinating place to live,and im sure if i lived there,id want to visit the cemetery every day.Is it still the same or are there too many police hanging round now?I just wish i had been there when all this highgate stuff started up.Like you,i would not have been able to keep away!

Dave,



That's quite at odds with your belief in "psychic entities". You've indicated that they exist independent of human "thought" and that they can also be malignant. Care to elaborate?

In terms of "projecting" evil, firstly, I know that was a dig at my (and certain others') comments on the supernatural, but you've also thrown a majority of the world's religions into the same pot...including your friend, Barb's.

Will you categorically state that Christians who believe in demons are "misguided"?

Secondly, it's not like Christianity doesn't recognise human evil. Why do you think there's such an emphasis on sin? The demon's role is generally as a tempter. But it's our free will that makes the choice between good and evil.

Hi clarmonde,



And here's the catch: you do realise that "pagan" refers to believing in multiple deities, right? (More on paganism here) You've also revealed your supernatural bias (as I have my own), so it's no surprise that what Dave says about the supernatural, appeals to your line of thinking.

However, by David's own logic, supernatural beings are nothing more than thought projections. Essentially, hallucinations made flesh. This is also at odds with paganism, too.

Would you care to expand on how you view yourself as a pagan?

"Thanks for your last answer.The subject of outside influences,as opposed to things within ourselves is something that has always interested me".

Hi Clarmonde,

Thanks for your answer. Although I have only referred to a couple of lines, I do understand your last post in full. With regard to the above, I was only trying to clarify that I do not personally accept the existence of 'external evil' as such, but that it only has its origins inn the human psyche, or mind. Evil thoughts, or impressions, may well exist - indeed do - but their origin are always projections of the hunan mind - 'vampires' included!

That is really what I was trying to point out, but thanks for understanding it.

I am not really a 'Pagan', in fact, I'm not really anything - if that makes sense! I guess, if anything, I'm just someone who's trying to find out what Life's really about; which is no easy task! In fact, its a very difficult one sometimes; especially when I'm called upon to explain the existence of such things as 'vampires'!

I might say, for example. such things really do not exist; but then I am confronted by some people who quote ancient newspaper reports to the effect that I believed in them ('vampires'). Those same people seem to forget (perhaps conveniently) that I took libel actions for those newspaper comments all those years ago - and won! but that somehow seems to have been forgotten by some people who keep re-producing such reports all these years later!

But I am not dismissing the existence of genuine unexplained phenomenon. I think that's where a lot of this confusion might come in.

Thanks Clarmonde

David (Farrant)

Ah, great to see you've dodged my q's Dave.

As to suing the papers for libel, word is, you sued 'em on a completely different matter. In fact, it's quite a bizarre claim to say you sued em for libel, considering you've admitted to playing up the vampire angle for the Press, yourself:



Talk about biting the hand that feeds!

In fact, care to mention which papers you sued and the ones you won your libel case against?

Aww Dave, you wouldn't be telling clarmonde to ignore me because...what I'm saying is true, wouldya?

I mean, I even quoted from your interview with me. If you're saying I'm making that up, then I'll happily forward your original replies by e-mail.

And yes, I'm asking you to name the newspapers. Why? Because I don't believe you sued them for "libel" concerning your own quotes and actions.

After all, why on earth would you sue those papers when you were actually playing along with the vampire angle, yourself, which you admitted to. Doesn't make sense. I mean, you still deploy the vampire tag, even now.

In fact, the only references I've seen about you winning any kind of libel case, was to do with certain claims about yourself being an unsatisfying lover.

If you provide the names of the papers concerning your libel cases, then I'll contact them myself, to verify the claims. If you're not making it up, you've got nothing to worry about, do you?

Lastly, as to your "some researcher" jibe...you do realise that research involves consulting primary sources (like your self), don't you? Maybe you need to familiarise yourself with the concept a bit more!

Shame I have to explain such things to a "psychic investigator", but ah wells. Anyway, here's a page that will help you understand what research is.

Happy reading!

Hey David
Any experience with Sylphs?
Air Spirits?
I read ancient Celtic tales about the Sylph king and world?
Always wondered about them

Hello David,Im glad you understand where im coming from.Like yourself i am,too,only trying to find out what lifes about,and my interest in the old religions has helped me,no end.Buta person has to be constantly open,not an easy task when so many around seem to just enjoy putting the boot in!I dont understand why people find it so hard to accept that an unexplained entity can be just that-anunexplained entity!Without all these constructions people seem to place on it.I dont see why so many dont understand.It took guts to go into that graveyard and to try to communicate with it,and not just have the usual knee jerk reaction-that it was something that had to be destroyed.Another person with much the same approach as you is the late Maurice Grosse.I found the book on theEnfield poltergiest very interesting,not least because the whole approach the investigaters took was so logical. All this talk about evil goes right back to the middle ages,and attitudes are still so unenlightened,it amazes me.I have been visiting a lot of churches recently,and it still annoys me that churches covered up a lot of the old religions and all they had to offer in terms of intelligent attitudes. at least the old religions respected women,not just men.It was only when i had got already into majic that i discovered my mothers uncle had been a druid.Then everything fell into place,and i could see why things had been so difficult for me.Ihave been thinking about starting up a topic on The Enfield Poltergiest-but i wonder how it will be recieved?If it caused half thetrouble and frankly,too personal remarks,Iwonder if it is a very good idea?

clarmonde,



It's a natural human inclination to put labels on thing. It's how we help understand the world around us. After all, you did suggest that the being was a "graveyard guardian", which refers to an entity in its own right.

You also dismissed vampires as an explanation, despite claiming you want people to be "constantly open". Not to mention that the whole Highgate thing is immersed in the vampire tag, something even Dave sought to promote. So, isn't that attitude a bit of a double standard?

I've got no beef with people looking for "the truth", but let's face it, we'll always have our automatic biases. It's also important that we don't always take this stuff at face value. After all, who's to say the whole thing wasn't just a publicity-seeking hoax, or something along those lines. Can you honestly rule that out?

"Hey David
Any experience with Sylphs?
Air Spirits?"

For Louvian
When I was last involved in Wicca (1982), of course we symbolically invoked the four elemental Nature spirits. This was an important part of the preliminary ceremonies. The air elemental (Sylph) was considered a particularly important one seen to govern (symbocially) the higher or esorteric regions of Nature. I am no longer actively involved in Wicca (as I have said) but in this repect, I do have some knowledge of them.

For the moment,

David

"Hello David,Im glad you understand where im coming from"

Thanks Clarmonde. Yes I do understand what you are saying; more importantly, what you mean by it. Maybe this is because it relates to my own line of inderstanding, so there is definitely some empathy there.

Unfortunately, some people are just caught irrevocably in theirown conceptions of 'vampires' or 'evil spirits' (or the latter being 'sent by the devil' as 'demons' to deceive the living!). I have to ignore such remarks generally as i is just impossible usually to 'get through' to somebody grounded in their own beliefs.

I know this is not the case with yourself, which is why I find it easy to relate to you.

I don't see why you shouldn't start a Thread on the Enfield case if you want; after all, you are a member and have as much right to do so as anyone else. So 'go for it girl!' if you want to. You'll probably get the usual nonsense from one or two people here, but they are really in a very small minority.

I'd like to hear your views of this anyway.

For now,

David

Well, since we're playing this game, again...

Hi clarmonde,



Remember what you said about bitchy comments in the other thread? Notice how Dave repeatedly mentions that my remarks are to be "ignored", then continuously alludes to them with catty remarks?

As much as he likes to pretend to be open-minded, he's not, really. Here's the proof. Also, start questioning him, seriously, about his claims (as jabbs did, too). Start taking notice of the contradictions in his stories, and you'll see how "nice" he really is.

Go on, I dare ya!

I mean, sure, he's happy with ya now, because you're upholding, or have a sympathy for what he says. Which, of course, makes you a potential buyer of his merchandise. Wait for the sale's pitch later.

So, if you really want to know more, I suggest you peruse various writings around the web. Like that Wikipedia link I sent you a lil while ago.

Oh, and he also shows a patent lack of comprehension, too. That's a bit of a worry in itself.

Anyway, I wish you all the best on your quest for truth! Good luck!

Hello David.No,it hasnt prevented me from replying.But on another thread [does everything in highgate have to be sinister],he has said one or two things which have made me bloody furious.I was so annoyed!But i do like talking to you and i am glad that we hold such similar views!Its nice to be able to discuss these strange phenomena anyway but especially , with someone who seems to view things in much the same way,and i am definitely going to get back to the Enfield poltergiest,because that is another book that i am particularly interested in.

Thanks David
Your Wicca experience did it help you in your adventures?
Do you see a relationship between Celtic spirits verses Voodo spirits?

Dave,



Sorry to distract you from your personal attacks, snide remarks and advertising. Oh, and psychic hocus pocus. Carry on!

clarmonde,



Oh? Like what? You'll have to be more specific.

Take note that I at least have the courtesy to interact with you directly and take the time to directly address what you say. Hope you can extend the same courtesy.

Hi Louvian,

The first part of your question is really easy to answer, that I will do. Forgive me though, if I avoid the second part as it not my wish to ‘start World War 3’ on here! Let me tell you why: But answering the second part of your question first:

"Thanks David
Your Wicca experience did it help you in your adventures?
Do you see a relationship between Celtic spirits verses Voodo spirits?"


In 2006/7 I inadvertently started a massive controversy on the Pentacle Forum simply for publishing an article I had written some years called “The Golden Age of Wicca”. In this I stated that originally was an ancient religion or belief system that pre-dated Christianity by many thousands of years; indeed, that early Christianity actually ‘stole’ many of its ancient rites and customs and adopted these into the early Christian Church (Easter and Christmas being just two examples). I explained that this Ancient Knowledge System once swept the Ancient World, and was adopted or influenced many Ancient Cultures.

Well, all hell broke loose! There were posts from indignant Pagans and Druids, outraged Christians and ‘modern Wiccans’ with all the usual arguments that Wicca was only a recent belief System beginning - or started by – Gerald Gardnier.

It went on for months with ‘poor old me’ caught right in the middle of it as usual! Louvian, I honestly don’t want to go through all that again here, and I know I have ‘tempted Fate’ by thus answering your question. But I haven’t really answered it; just given you the reasons why I don’t want to. I think Jon Randal, the editor of “Pentacle Magazine” was sympathetic towards what I was trying to say, but some of his members most definitely were NOT!

Having seen how this is a sensitive point with both Christians and Pagans alike then (and others) its probably best that I avoid the subject here. But yes, early Celtic traditions are included in what I have just said about this Ancient Knowledge System.

Then you ask if I learned from Wicca? Of course, That’s why I originally took 3 Initiations into this Knowledge System. If you were to ask me ‘how’; well, it all comes back to this essential question involving consciousness – or rather, the expansion of consciousness.

Hope this answers you, anyway.

David Farrant.

Firstly, Dave, you didn't actually answer lovuian, specifically about the voodoo stuff. In light of its African origins, I'd like to see what connection you make between it and a branch of Celtic-based paganism.

Also, Wicca is a recent invention. How else do you think they were able to pinch the Rede off Crowley?

That Margaret Murray ancient-witchcraft-stuff was disproved ages ago. I mean, even the extent of the Burning Times are heavily disputed.

Also, I thought you didn't believe in Wicca anymore. What's the go there?

"That Margaret Murray ancient-witchcraft-stuff was disproved ages ago. I mean, even the extent of the Burning Times are heavily disputed."

fOR LOUVIAN

You see, Louvian, its post like these (above) that exactly proves my point. Just a desire to argue as opposed to having any understanding of true Wicca whatsoever that predates so-called 'experts' like Margaret Murray by many thousands of years.

When I was on Trial at the Old Bailey in 1974 for alleged 'witchcraft offences' I gave evidence about my personal involvement in Wicca; and how it was nothing whatsoever to do with Satanism or black magic. All this still remains on transcript for people to read; but it remains another reason where I am not prepared to discuss sacred beliefs and practices here. This would never be understood by the ignorant and dull-witted
who can never see much further than their own bigoted conceptions.

I am certainly not referring to yourself: indeed, I know you have a deep understanding of such matters.

"Never cast your pearls before swinw", as the old biblical saying goes.

There is a lot of Truth in that!

David (Farrant)

Dave,



Firstly, it ain't true Wicca, is it. Wicca is a modern religion. If you're talking paganism, sure that's ancient. No disputes there. Trying to graft a modernist philosophy over the top of it, isn't gonna change that fact.



Thing is, Dave, I'm not making any satanic connections. Also, to dismiss people as "dull-witted" with "bigoted conceptions" is pretty much doing what they do, ya see. Jumping ahead of yourself to make negative connotations and judgments.



That's presuming you even have pearls to cast in the first place! And considering you're so closed off about the topic, then that's a difficult call to make. Which is kinda funny, considering you're happy mocking other beliefs (like mine)...religious or otherwise.

Anthony, are you thinking along the same lines as I am that Dave is looking for an escape from whatever torments his soul?

His tormented reply to Lovuian is evidence of that, IMHO

I have a ready answer to his wishes, just follow this link. It has never failed to deliver what it promises...
http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/17460.htm