Arcadia Discussion Zone

I don't know... the whole thing sounds a bit fishy to me... This is off the top of my head, so it might not be exact - Henri Buthion discovered it in 1967 after being tipped off about it's general location by a 'psychic' from Carcassonne (!). It was supposedly examined by, I can't remember, who felt it was Sauniere's handwriting (!). The 'original' was stolen almost immediately by Gerard de Sede (!). 'Luckily' someone had made a copy first however, but this was then destroyed in fire (!). So a new copy was written up from memory and the notes of people who'd originally examined it (!).

So if I have this sequence right, the text used today is based on a recollection of a copy of an 'original' found, with the help of a pyschic, in 1967, by people with a lot invested in the Sauniere tale!

Have you noticed one thing - and that is the puzzle is the encryption. And that's not just for Sot Pecheur.
de cherisey presents his work in the same manner.

No, that's your inability to read a simple post...go read it again.

There are strengths to phonetic encryption. It has deniability and it can be elusive. Boudet's target audience had by nature at the time had the education to understand the rules he was applying to the system.

For instance to us, it would seem to be subjective(and it is to some part) to someone like Sheila it's quite specific. She can read the story (plaintext) as it was meant to be told and for her each definition is objective.

Hmm..ok, so which are you saying I am incorrect about Pompey as the builder or Caesar as the supposed occupant of the burial.

oh do stop asking stupid questions laddie, read the posts.

Exactly, which is why, considering the timing of the find (1967), I'd suggest that one should not discount the possibility that the Sot Pecheur was another Priory Document fabricated (with the usual high level of skill) by de Cherisey et al...

The post tell me Pompey built the first permanent arena in Rome. So therefore according to you he would be the supposed occupant. If I recall he was killed in Egypt, beheaded I believe. I wouldn`t ask "stupid" questions if you could be straight forward, obviously I`m not seeing something you are. Perhaps you could point out your argument.

what are you talking about? You know that is strictly forbidden here.

You make a good point, Davinho, and that is the problem with these types of 'codes'. While they do exist to some degree, the subjective nature means that people trying to 'decode' them can really make up anything they want.

For example, the system of coding in Alchemy is very consistent, yet some people take far too much from it, another example of 'six degrees of' research. I first came across it about twenty years ago when I purchased a book called Hermes Unveiled. This book led me to Dom Pernety, Manly Hall, Aleister Crowley etc. who were all advocates of the 'language of the gods'. Here is a quote from Hall (which Rain might find interesting):

Indeed, just look at the Bible
Regards
Nic

Well, that's the claim, but perhaps not quite in the way you'd imagine. To directly continue the quote from Hall:

Chérisey had a tent, as in a bog-standard camping tent.... he tells you where he pitched it, on land that i assume belonged to Plantard.

It`s rather a shame really. non-productive, that`s all.

Again, as always, please accept my apologies for my poor English




First of all, any expert in cryptography knows if what he is looking at is
-a coded message or
- a simple string of nonsense someone else presumes to be a coded message.
If an expert has ever studied the message in discussion, he would certainly have realized if it's worth the effort or not
Sparty, Davinho and other users gave proof of rationality, integrity and decency when this forum confronted itself with a serious deviation from the basic rules of common sense. Of course, I'm speaking of the "Tombman Affair". But I'm also referring to the sectarian deviations of certain groups that rushed to legitimize their doctrine upon the "tombman affair".
Sparty,, I really admire your skepticism as well as your arguments. Your only problem is that you don't have enough information and/ or your image of the PoS/RLB/RLC mystery is extremely influenced by that current which is willing to deny all in corpore. We must take care not to fall in the Paul Smith extreme as there is the risk of throwing out the baby along with the dirty water. Ah by the way Louv, Nicolas Haywood has nothing to do with the so called Priory of Sion, but Paul Smith has.

Unfortunately, I notice that there are very few users that take seriously the so-called "source-documents".
To take seriously doesn't mean to believe in them blindly. It just means to study them seriously.
I understand that Sparty's frustration comes from the fact that he is wondering whether these documents are worth the effort of being studied or not.
My personal opinion is YES.
They're worth it.
They're worth it, because there is something beyond the "Pos/RLC/RLB" mystery.
This something ... is the authentic initiatic message.
Or if we are not looking for an authentic initiatic message, at least we can find out more about the origin of one of the most controversial subject of this era dominated by conspiracy theories. Masonry.
I repeat, what I'm writing here, does not represent my point of view. I'm just trying to put together some elements that have been ignored or put in a wrong context.
Thus, regarding MORT EPEE.
A simple reevaluation (rereading) of the essential texts connected to the subject discussed on the forum, is more than necessary. There are some materials more or less public, that could help eliminate many confusions. Deliberate or not confusions.
One of the essential texts is CIRCUIT.
CIRCUIT, is a work erroneously attributed to the Marquis de Cherisey, given the fact that the contractual arrangements provide him with only 35% of the paternity of the work.
In reality his 100% contribution resumes only to the epilogue "L'alibi d'0" and the fabrication of some parchments, as documentary material (props) that was to be used in a movie about RLC.
Initially the parchments were not supposed to be presented as being authentic.
They were supposed to be presented as what they were. That is samples of coding of some initiatic messages, publicly put into CIRCULATION, which have precise targets...
The message on the Tombstone of Marie de Negre was just a pretext, given the content of the movie...

The CIRCUIT is an initatic work structured on:
-22 chapters that correspond to the 22 major arcanas of tarot du Marseille and to the 22 letters of the Hebrew alphabet.
-A preface which is the key in which the work has to be decrypted. The preface is symbolically attributed to DINGRON-MOZART .
To be read (DM - Deis Manibus).
-an epilogue, called "L'alibi d'0", added afterwards.

MORT EPEE is connected to both
1. the identity of the Great Roman as well as
2. "the pass word" to the Ark of the 13th. Attention, I have said that "it is connected to", not that it is " the pass word".

note:
- Sheila has pointed out very well "les Treize Ors de l"Arene" that is the edifice of the Ark.
-Rain also mentioned the phonetic Cabbala...
From what I know "les Treize Ors de l'Arene" (to be read Tresors de l'Arene) refers to the real edifice situated in the proximity of RLB.
This edifice is roman in origin and it is said it has a checkered floor near the inscription AVC MM CD XXX IV referring to Anno Domini 1681.


1681 is not so much a date but a term within a calculation that measures the distance of the imaginary line called "17 January". This imaginary line is also the "projection" in the landscape between the two Rennes of the Parisian metro line between Vincennes and Defense (22 ligne jaune). The resulting measure is expressed in meters. Instead 681 is another measure that indicates a precise location situated south to RLB and expressed in Toise.
Worth mentioning is the fact that there is no longer a material treasure in RLB/RLC in the sense understood by treasure hunters. But there are certain vestiges of archeological nature that have a special value in strict historical and religious terms. But the religious value has nothing to do with the "Mary Magdalene cult" and in any case cannot legitimize the militant feminism.
In what regards Pompey and the identity of the Great Roman, we have the following explanation:



This fragment contains an intentional error. A distortion in time. A historical inadvertence that draws our attention to the rules established right at the beginning of CIRCUIT.
These rules are imposed through the test Amedee is subjected to.
Through this test Amedee has to identify some CONTRADICTIONS and some TIME DISTORTIONS.
The author warns us that these intentional errors appear along the entire story...
In order to solve the huge puzzle the CIRCUIT in itself is, we must pay attention to them...

What we know from history is the fact that it is not Pompey Magnus the one being defeated at Naulochus by Agrippa ... but his son Sextus and furthermore, this Sextus is the one killed in Milet.
In return, also from official history we know that before being killed in Egipt, Pompey met in Mytilene with his son Sextus and his wife Cornellia. Let us not forget that the theatre in Mytilene was used as model for the Theatre of Pompey, as Sheila has pointed out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theatre_of_Pompey

Milet and Mytilene are approximately 180 km away one from another on the same western coast of Anatolia.
For those that have studied Le Cercle or Vaincre there is no secret that MORT EPEE is related with the checkered floor mentioned in the so-called "Dubosc Document".
There has been much discussion on this forum regarding the "knights tour" and about "Vigenere" etc.
Very few people know that the so-called masonic "claudicating", as well as the masonic checkered floor, have their origin in an ancient initiatic ritual which is exactly the one described in CIRCUIT.
This type of initiation that circulates in the Mediterranean area, has reached the British Isles in a crippled manner and evolved in what we call today masonry.

The initiate in the Temple, goes on a specific path on a chessboard where each box (tile) alternatively white and black ... measures 43,5 cm. The movement in "L" (or Chet from the Hebrew alphabet), 1+3 is performed at a right angle in all directions. The initiate must go on a precise path using this specific step. Thus all the 64 tiles of the chessboard must be covered without passing twice over the same box. There are 3 series (veils, three pass words) of 21 leaps that must cover 22 positions. In this manner is done an ... almost complete CIRCUIT ...as following:

FIRST SERIES of 21 jumps (position from 1 to 22)
...from H2 [position Nº1]... begins jump Nº1 to G4 [position Nº2] ―˃ successively following jump Nº2 to H6 [position Nº3] ―˃jump Nº3 to G8 [position Nº4] ―˃ jump Nº4 to E7 [pos. Nº5] ―˃ jump Nº5 to C8 [pos. Nº6] ―˃ jump Nº6 to B6 [pos. Nº7] ―˃ jump Nº7 to A8 [pos. Nº8] ―˃ jump Nº8 to C7 [pos. Nº9] ―˃ jump Nº9 to E8 [pos. Nº10] ―˃ jump Nº10 to G7 [pos.Nº11] ―˃ jump Nº11 to H5 [pos. Nº12] ―˃ jump Nº12 to G3 [pos. Nº13] ―˃ jump Nº13 to H1 [pos. Nº14] ―˃ jump Nº14 to F2 [pos. Nº15] ―˃ jump Nº15 to D1 [pos. Nº16] ―˃ jump Nº16 to B2 [pos. Nº17] ―˃ jump Nº17 to A4 [pos. Nº18] ―˃ jump Nº18 to C3 [pos. Nº19] ―˃ jump Nº19 to D5 [pos. Nº20] ―˃ jump Nº20 to E3 [pos. Nº21] ―˃ and finally jump Nº21 to F5 [pos. Nº22]...

The SECOND SERIES of 21 jumps (positions from 22 to 43)
...from F5 [position Nº22]... starts jump Nº22 to D4 [position Nº23] ―˃ successively following jump Nº23 to F3 [position Nº24] ―˃ jump Nº24 to E5 [position Nº25] ―˃ jump Nº25 to D3 [pos. Nº26] ―˃ jump Nº26 to F4 [pos. Nº27] ―˃ jump Nº27 to E6 [pos. Nº28] ―˃ jump Nº28 to F8 [pos. Nº29] ―˃ jump Nº29 to H7 [pos. Nº30] ―˃ jump Nº30 to G5 [pos. Nº31] ―˃ jump Nº31 to H3 [pos.Nº32] ―˃ jump Nº32 to G1 [pos. Nº33] ―˃jump Nº33 to E2 [pos. Nº34] ―˃ jump Nº34 to C1 [pos. Nº35] ―˃ jump Nº35 to A2 [pos. Nº36] ―˃ jump Nº36 to B4 [pos. Nº37] ―˃ jump Nº37 to A6 [pos. Nº38] ―˃jump Nº38 to C5 [pos. Nº39] ―˃ jump Nº39 to B7 [pos. Nº40] ―˃ jump Nº40 to D8 [pos. Nº41] ―˃ jump Nº41 to F7 [pos. Nº42] ―˃ and finally jump Nº42 to H8 [pos. Nº43]...

The THIRD SERIES of 21 jumps (positions from 43 to 64)
...from H8 [position Nº43]... starts jump Nº43 to G6 [position Nº44] ―˃ successively following jump Nº44 to H4 [position Nº45] ―˃ jump Nº45 to G2 [position Nº46] ―˃ jump Nº46 to E1 [pos. Nº47] ―˃ jump Nº47 to C2 [pos. Nº48] ―˃ jump Nº48 to A1 [pos. Nº49] ―˃ jump Nº49 to B3 [pos. Nº50] ―˃ jump Nº50 to A5 [pos. Nº51] ―˃ jump Nº51 to C4 [pos. Nº52] ―˃ jump Nº52 to D6 [pos.Nº53] ―˃ jump Nº53 to E4 [pos. Nº54] ―˃jump Nº54 to F6 [pos. Nº55] ―˃ jump Nº55 to D7 [pos. Nº56] ―˃ jump Nº56 to B8 [pos. Nº57] ―˃ jump Nº57 to C6 [pos. Nº58] ―˃ jump Nº58 to A7 [pos. Nº59] ―˃jump Nº59 to B5 [pos. Nº60] ―˃ jump Nº60 to A3 [pos. Nº61] ―˃ jump Nº61 to B1 [pos. Nº62] ―˃ jump Nº62 to D2 [pos. Nº63] ―˃ and follows jump Nº63 to F1 [pos. Nº64]...


Thus, the position with number 64 corresponds to the 63rd jump thus the CIRCUIT is not yet complete. There is one more jump needed. From the 64th position to the 1st.
Through this move the initiate symbolically crosses time and space. According to the ritual in the end there are only two variants (gates) for completing the last jump.
In order to understand the symbolic value of this "Last Jump", we need to have in mind the structure of the work CIRCUIT. 22 chapters that correspond to the 22 major arcanas of the Ancient Tarot de Marseille and also to the 22 letter of the Hebrew alphabet.
Thus the jump from 64 to 1 can be done through the tile with the 14th position that corresponds to Temperance (A XIIII) or through the tile with the 15th position that corresponds to the arcana called The Devil (A XV).
On the left or on the right.
Confronted with this dilemma is also the character Charlot, in the epilogue of the CIRCUIT called "L'alibi d'0".
In his final journey he finds himself at a crossroad and has to choose between:
Right and Left,
between CELLIS and ARCIS
between REDDIS and REGIS...
between MORT and EPEE...
In the end he says "[...] we choose left and long live the King [...]". It seems that LEFT is the move through the tile 15 that corresponds to the XV Arcana of Tarot called the Devil...

Hi Boris,

Thanks for the detailed and interesting posts. Straight forward posts are such a rarity around here it is kind of shocking to have two in a row!



I think you misunderstand me, Boris - I don't doubt that there is something mysterious about RlC etc, I just doubt that the PoS has any genuine connection to it. I have found no evidence to suggest otherwise. As far as I can tell, almost everything claimed by Plantard etc falls apart under scrutiny. All of the things you have discussed are sourced to de Cherisey as far as I can see, and my issue has always been the same - why is such great value attached to de Cherisey's interpretations by some people?



By this, do you mean those fabricated documents created in the earlier 1960's to create the Merovingian Pretender narrative?



I have studied them seriously, for over twenty years, and the narrative they present simply doesn't stand up to scrutiny. For example, there is absolutely no evidence that Giselle de Razes ever existed...etc



I'm not fustrated at all, Boris. I love this shit



Like I said, I have studied them very seriously. And I have absolutely no doubt that there is something beyond the 'PoS/RlC/RlB' mystery. Of course there is. IMHO I've been there! But I'll tell you what I think - there are a dozen other paths to this 'authentic initiatic message' which are IMHO much more 'wholesome' routes than the barely legitimate, anti-Semitic, agenda-laden 'path' laid down by Plantard et al!



Do you want to elaborate and tell us who you think was responsible for writing CIRCUIT?

Hi 'Boris'
I would echo the fact that you have posted some interesting comments. Your link from the number 22 to the Knights Tour moves seems perfectly viable to me but this also leads to other questions that if PdC made the parchments are the numerous number 22 references in RLC coincidence or a source that he used ?

Personally although IMO the documents are a more recent concoction I would agree that they should not just be discounted on that principal. I am of the belief that PdC was party to knowledge surrounding BS and Boudet etc's findings in the RLC/RLB area and for this reason the documents should be studied in detail. You seem to be of the belief that Masonry plays a large part. As discussed here verbatim, do you also believe that Sauniere was including Masonic references or is this a latter addition ?

I totally agree that CIRCUIT is an important text and as Sparty asked I'm also intrigued to know who you believe is the author ?

Would you elaborate on this to add whether you think there ever has been a "material treasure", and if so when was it removed?
Regards
Nic

No I didn't - you're implying that the cabbalistic rules that apply to the middle east apply to Europe.
But Boudet makes it clear that it is the larger, more ancient alphabet and rules that are kept and derived from the tectosages that remain.
A larger system and far more extensive system then was ever used in the Middle East.

He's probably talking about the "rites of Memphis and Misraïm" and the internecine warfare in continental Masonry.

The work Circuit is in itself a mirror in which is most accurately reflected the situation caused by the myth Pos / RLC / Rlb.
In other words the Circuit anticipates the effects that the media coverage of the whole myth was going to have. The expression used in this work for this -coming out in public - is the "Great Carnage".
The true surrealism of the Circuit comes from a sort of cross pollination between real and fiction. Features of reality project into fiction and vice versa.





As I have mentioned before, de Cherisey's input in writing the Circuit is insignificant. In equal measure Cherisey's actual contribution to the entire Pos/Rlc/Rlb, Merovingian lineage , etc... is minimal. A great part of the documents attributed to him and which circulate on the market are written by other persons. In this sense it would be interesting to study the empty paper bearing Cherisey's signature, over which a typewritten text was added. It is dated six days before his death. The letter also contains a convenient response to your question regarding the other author.



Beyond all this, there is another author which could be considered as the moral author of the CIRCUIT. I'm speaking about Eugen Ionesco. The character Amedee from CIRCUIT is a character borrowed from Ionesco, with his consent.
Much can be said regarding the so called Romanian-Austro-Hungarian branch but I will resume to a few short answers relating to the question



From the information I have until now, the material treasure was removed in time ... starting from 1808. Part of the valuables were re"discovered" in 1837 in a village at the foot of the Carpathians. The stake of these movements is one with major political and military importance. From what I know, in the time of Sauniere, in the proximity of Rennes-les-Chateau there was nothing substantial left.


Rain , you disappoint me again. You are out of range and seem to not have control of your own statements. When you are speaking about phonetic encryption (expression used by you on this thread), you are actually referring to "Phonetic Cabala", "langue vert", or "language of birds".
As you love Wikipedia, I will help you with these notes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_of_the_birds



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulcanelli



Rain, have I said anywhere that the initiation I'm speaking of is a masonic one? I've said that masonry, as we know it, is an altered form of a much older initiatic school and of which is being said that it has influenced greatly a certain component of the occidental esoterism from the middle ages.
Also, the appearance of the Tarot, in its initiatic not divinatory form, is strictly related to this system, to these rituals.
In what regards the Memphis- Misraïm Rite you are again off-topic and from your assumption results that you did not understand what I'm talking about. Maybe my English is to blame.
First of all, 1717 (the official year of the birth of English freemasonry) predates the period of the apparition of Balsamo's Rite of Misraïm and subsequently de Nègre's Rite of Memphis.
In plus the Iniatic System I'm speaking of predates even the famous migration of a part of the Saint-Clair family from Epte to the British Islands.
Please verify the period when Chess came to Europe considering the fact that it is said that the ritual, I spoke of in my previous posts, came along with the game.

Don't bother Boris, it wasn't me that said it - it was Dr. Dee that differentiated the alphabets. Why don't read outside the literature your bosses give you. It might help.

"The Sion Revelation" is getting a bit long in the tooth wonder when we'll be seeing more "revelatory" books about Sion reach our bookshelves.

Oups, you've mistaken again, Je suis mon propre chef...

Pablo

Law of lustration an' all - Mr. Freelancelot.