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 Post subject: Re: Ark of the covenant
PostPosted: 19 Mar 2012 10:01 pm 
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Joined: 24 May 2007 6:04 pm
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It is NOT TRUE that we tried to sell the ARK to some German researchers! In deed we went to a nerby country and i asked a very well known person to help us to take further steps for EXCAVATING THE T O M B! He never saw the Ark Photos,only the TOMB footage!!!!!!! You can ask him Andy, in deed it was my idea to raise some money from Bruce, because i thought he once tried to steel the TOMB from Ben and wanted to sell it to a person in the US! So I wanted to take the money to put it in an excavation, exactly this I asked the german speaking Person,-WE NEED MONEY TO DO THE EXCAVATION AND WHAT ARE THE NEXT STEPS??? And he tried to help us but couldnt do anything. To that moment I had NO IDEA THAT THE TOMB WAS A FAKE! I never wanted to sell the Ark to this person! Even now we all should say the truth!


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 Post subject: Re: Ark of the covenant
PostPosted: 19 Mar 2012 10:02 pm 
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Monsieur Haywood est un pire faussaire que "Hammott". J'espere bien que vous en etes parfaitement conscient.

Je suis tres surpris que tant de participants soient surpris que tout cela soit faux. Le coffret trouve dans une grotte ou elle n'etait pas auparavent etait une sirene d'alarme impossible a ignorer.

Monsieur Haywood va bientot devoir s'expliquer pour d'autres crimes. Les affaires Castelrennaises sont le moindre de ses soucis.


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 Post subject: Re: Ark of the covenant
PostPosted: 19 Mar 2012 10:06 pm 
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:P

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Last edited by rain on 27 Mar 2012 10:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ark of the covenant
PostPosted: 19 Mar 2012 10:16 pm 
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Tertius wrote:
Monsieur Haywood est un pire faussaire que "Hammott". J'espere bien que vous en etes parfaitement conscient.

Je suis tres surpris que tant de participants soient surpris que tout cela soit faux. Le coffret trouve dans une grotte ou elle n'etait pas auparavent etait une sirene d'alarme impossible a ignorer.

Monsieur Haywood va bientot devoir s'expliquer pour d'autres crimes. Les affaires Castelrennaises sont le moindre de ses soucis.


Provide a translation for Christ's sake, its an English language forum after all.


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 Post subject: Re: Ark of the covenant
PostPosted: 19 Mar 2012 10:32 pm 
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Pilrig wrote:
Tertius wrote:
Monsieur Haywood est un pire faussaire que "Hammott". J'espere bien que vous en etes parfaitement conscient.

Je suis tres surpris que tant de participants soient surpris que tout cela soit faux. Le coffret trouve dans une grotte ou elle n'etait pas auparavent etait une sirene d'alarme impossible a ignorer.

Monsieur Haywood va bientot devoir s'expliquer pour d'autres crimes. Les affaires Castelrennaises sont le moindre de ses soucis.


Provide a translation for Christ's sake, its an English language forum after all.


BING TRANSLATION
Quote:
Mr Haywood is a worse forger than "Hammott". I hope even though you are well aware.


I am very surprised that so many participants are surprised that all this is wrong. The box is in a cave or it was not previously was an impossible alarm sirene has ignore.


Mr. Haywood will soon have to be explained for other crimes. Castelrennaises cases are the least of her concerns.

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 Post subject: Re: Ark of the covenant
PostPosted: 19 Mar 2012 10:45 pm 
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Pilrig wrote:
Tertius wrote:
Monsieur Haywood est un pire faussaire que "Hammott". J'espere bien que vous en etes parfaitement conscient.

Je suis tres surpris que tant de participants soient surpris que tout cela soit faux. Le coffret trouve dans une grotte ou elle n'etait pas auparavent etait une sirene d'alarme impossible a ignorer.

Monsieur Haywood va bientot devoir s'expliquer pour d'autres crimes. Les affaires Castelrennaises sont le moindre de ses soucis.


Provide a translation for Christ's sake, its an English language forum after all.


Funnily enough his first 100 or so posts in this incarnation were in English :lol:

Contrary is as contrary does............... :lol:

TD

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 Post subject: Re: Ark of the covenant
PostPosted: 19 Mar 2012 11:03 pm 
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Tertius wrote:
Monsieur Haywood est un pire faussaire que "Hammott". J'espere bien que vous en etes parfaitement conscient.

Je suis tres surpris que tant de participants soient surpris que tout cela soit faux. Le coffret trouve dans une grotte ou elle n'etait pas auparavent etait une sirene d'alarme impossible a ignorer.

Monsieur Haywood va bientot devoir s'expliquer pour d'autres crimes. Les affaires Castelrennaises sont le moindre de ses soucis.

Mr Haywood is a worse forger than 'Hammott'. I hope you're all perfectly aware of that.

I am very surprised that so many members are surprised that everything was hoaxed. The box, found in a cave where it hadn't been before, was an alarm impossible to ignore.

Mr Haywood will soon have to explain other crimes. RLC matters are the least of his worries...

[Or something like that...?]


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 Post subject: Re: Ark of the covenant
PostPosted: 19 Mar 2012 11:29 pm 
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rain wrote:
VeryAngryMother wrote:
Davinho wrote:
so you've pretty much sat on this info for 2 years?
in hindsight do you think that was right? Sorry, I'm not aware of your personal life with Ben
I had just gone through a less than amicable split from my husband. I don't imagine I would have been believed if, after all my years of supporting him, that I suddenly posted "btw guys, it's all a hoax!"

VAM


The truth is Spousal privelige would have applied. It's not your fault - he's an A-hole and even worse to put in that position. Even telling you was get off his chest and put it on yours. Probably one of the most despicable and selfish acts one can do.

The truth is I can probably guess you spent 2 years following the forum waiting for a chance to tell us, not sure of the reception. That's a truly heavy burden.
Now your conscience truly is clear.
None of it is your fault - and all the people to pay a price it was you. I won't insult you by saying I pity you. I will instead say, it's not your fault. I hope you can start to heal now.
I hope that awful cloud on your chest is gone and I wish you and yours the best.

Seconded
Regards
Nic


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 Post subject: Graal
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2012 12:32 am 
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"Alea iacta est (Latin: "The die has been cast") is a Latin phrase attributed by Suetonius (as iacta alea est [ˈjakta ˈaːlea est]) to Julius Caesar on January 10, 49 BC as he led his army across the River Rubicon in Northern Italy. With this step, he entered Italy at the head of his army in defiance and began his long civil war against Pompey and the Optimates. The phrase is still used today to mean that events have passed a point of no return, that something inevitable will happen."

Pat - I believe you.

Dare I say that I`ve been through a false confession?

Hotspur, my posts are mostly photos so it would take no time at all to go through them, except for the diary pages of course.

Who forged the Emma Calve steamer ticket?

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 Post subject: Re: Ark of the covenant
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2012 2:44 am 
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I feel very sorry for Andrew
He must have gone through hell
to expose the Truth

Think of the tremendous stress!!!

Thanks Andy so very much for stepping up and lifting the veil

What is so sad about this is Andrew is so nice
and he was the one who had to stop the charade

I'm so thankful to you Andrew

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 Post subject: Re: Graal
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2012 2:49 am 
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Renne wrote:
Hotspur, my posts are mostly photos so it would take no time at all to go through them, except for the diary pages of course.



so it would take no time at all to go through them


I would say, that having the option of a dram of whiskey every 50 posts, Pilrig will get thru them even more quickly than we can imagine.

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 Post subject: Re: Ark of the covenant
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2012 2:55 am 
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VeryAngryMother wrote:
People - the tomb was a HOAX.


Whaaa…?!? But I thought that Ben Hammott's discoveries had been certified by Bill Kersey as being genuine discoveries!

No. I trust Bill Kersey’s certification process. These discoveries are not hoaxes. They are genuine.

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lcremote - certifying Bill Kerseys genuine certification of Ben Hammotts genuine discoveries.

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 Post subject: Re: Ark of the covenant
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2012 6:33 am 
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That is what I thought also !

:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Ark of the covenant
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2012 6:54 am 
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bergeredearcadie wrote:
Ben isnt responsible for the people who believed it all.

I think he is. He played on people's good nature and gullibility. Of course he's responsible.

bergeredearcadie wrote:
At least he had the courage to confess - we know there are other 'hoaxers' out there, and those that support them - who have never had the gumption to 'own up' and know its all fake :)

I don't think there's any 'courage' or 'gumption' about it. Why should a hoaxer ever own up? It's not in their nature. They would only own up if they were cornered and there was no way out...

bergeredearcadie wrote:
I dont know where the Ark of the Covenant story came from, but there is a Rennes Group member actually seeking that artifact. Who is the bigger fool? The one searching for it, or the one who created a fake to sell it?

The one who created a fake to sell it.


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 Post subject: Re: Ark of the covenant
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2012 8:00 am 
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Statement from Pat on a German forum called "Schmiede des Wissens"

Quote:
"Ausgeträumt!

Hiermit entschuldige ich mich bei all jenen, welche die letzten Jahre an uns geglaubt hatten. Als das alte Forum von Babs noch existierte zog ich eines Tages aus und sagte, dass ich herausfinden werde ob Ben ein Grab gefunden hat oder nicht, Heute, nach nun mehr 6 Jahren liefere ich mit Tränen in meinen Augen die Antwort! Das Grab, sowie die Messages, sowie die Box sind gefälscht! Das Grab ist eine riesige 1:1Kulisse und die Münzen stammen von einem Münzhändler aus Amerika. Ben hat die Messages selbst erstellt, eine zweite Box, welche wir verzweifelt suchten existierte niemals! Mein Team suchte rund um das „Grab“ sechs Jahre lang den Haupteingang und tatsächlich fanden wir viele Höhlen, teils tödliche Löcher! Jedoch keinen Eingang. Das Schreibtischteam untersuchte Messages, deren Inhalt nicht das Geringste bedeutete. Es gibt keine versteckten Hinweise in den Messages, denn Ben hat sie selbst angefertigt. Alle Angaben bis hin zur sogenannten M-Höhle stimmen und sind in der Kirche ersichtlich, ab dort fand Ben keinen weiteren Hinweis und kam auf die Idee ein Grab zu fälschen. Dann erkrankte sein Sohn, dann Bloodline, die DRAC, Publicity, Bücher, Interviews, etc, etc und schon befand er sich in einem Geflecht aus Lügen aus dem es kein entrinnen mehr gab. Seit 48 Stunden weiß ich, dass einer meiner engsten Vertrauten, einem Bruder gleich, mich und mein Team 6 lange Jahre nach Strich und Faden belogen und betrogen hat. Rennes le Chateau war mein Leben. Wie auch euch waren uns die vielen kleinen und großen Fehler in der Beweiskette bekannt, jedoch ignorierten wir dies besseren Wissens, denn wir diskutierten sie im Team mit Ben gemeinsam und suchten nach Lösungen und viele Details schienen zu stimmen welche ein Mann eigentlich gar nicht wissen konnte. Ben ist ein Genie und man sollte eigentlich den Hut ziehen wenn mein Herz nicht so zerrissen wäre!
Auch ich bin nicht ohne Schuld denn ich habe falsch Spuren gelegt um das vermeintlich echte Grab zu schützen, ich habe ein Modell der Bundeslade angefertigt welches ich einer Amerikanerin verkaufen wollte um die Ausgrabung des Grabes zu finanzieren.
Mein Traum ist zerplatzt und ich entschuldige mich nochmals bei allen Personen, denen ich durch mein vermeintliches Wissen unrecht getan habe. Ich habe stets nach bestem Wissen und Gewissen gehandelt, denn meine Mission war klar- das Geheimnis von Rennes le Chateau und das von Ben zu lüften!
Mein Schmerz sitzt tief, ich habe eine Partnerschaft geopfert, viel Geld verloren aber ich habe mit Ben telefoniert und habe ihm verziehen und ich bitte Euch ihm ebenfalls nicht zu verurteilen. Er ist froh, dass es vorbei ist! Lasst uns nach vorne schauen, denn ich glaube nach wie vor an ein Geheimnis in Rennes le Chateau, welches noch zu lüften gilt- jetzt mehr denn je!

Pat und das Team Hammott"


Google Translated it goes something like this:

Quote:
"The Dream is over!

I hereby apologize to all those who had believed in the past few years with us. As the old forum by Babs still existed, I took off one day and said that I'll find out if Ben has found a grave or not, today, after more than 6 years now I deliver with tears in my eyes the answer! The grave, and the messages, and the box are fake! The grave is a huge backdrop of 1:1 and the coins are from a coin dealer from America. Ben has created the messages themselves, a second box, which we desperately never existed! My team was looking around the "grave" for six years, the main entrance and in fact we found many caves, some fatal holes! However, no input. The writing team examined messages whose contents are not meant a thing. There are no hidden clues in the messages, because Ben has himself made. All information and so-called M-cave and vote can be seen in the church, as there was no further evidence and Ben had the idea to fake a grave. Then his son became ill, then Bloodline, the DRAC, publicity, books, interviews, etc, etc, and now he found himself in a web of lies, from which it escaped no longer existed. For 48 hours, I know that one of my closest confidant, a brother like me and my team of 6 long years after stroke and thread has lied and cheated. Rennes le Chateau was my life. How well you are numerous small and large errors in the chain of evidence was known, but we ignored it knowing better, because we discussed in a team with Ben together and looked for solutions and many of the details seemed to agree that a man do not even really able to . Ben is a genius and you should really take my hat if my heart would not be so torn!
Also, I am not without fault because I put the wrong track to the supposedly real grave to protect, I made a model of the ark which I wanted to sell an American, to finance the excavation of the tomb.
My dream is shattered and I apologize again to all the people I've done wrong by my supposed knowledge. I have always acted in good faith and conscience, because my mission was clear-the mystery of Rennes le Chateau and the airing of Ben!
My pain runs deep, I've sacrificed a partnership, lost a lot of money but I talked to Ben and I have forgiven him and I pray it does not also condemn. He is glad it's over! Let's look forward, because I still believe in a mystery of Rennes le Chateau, which is yet to unravel, now more than ever!

Pat and the team Hammott "

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 Post subject: Re: Ark of the covenant
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2012 8:29 am 
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Sorry to do multiple posts here.

Re-reading Andrew's message from last night I noticed the real dating of the Bloodline body was 1957. That implies that it was a real body of a real person. I know of a few RLC connected individuals that passed away around that time. The irony is beating me senseless.

I wonder where Ben found a corpse and how he manipulated it on his own. A marble slab is heavy and so is a body. It seems hard to magine he did all this by himself alone. If this is true, and it has every appearance that it is, Mr Wilkinson is a grave robber and a body snatcher. I so hope I am wrong here and the body was a dummy.

My respect for the man is quickly evaporating now. Remember this is the guy who accused both Andrew and myself in his book..... All seems a bit hyprocritical now to say the least.

Quote:
As we have recently seen, Rennes researchers have been rther ferociously passing judgement on some papers that the Ben Hammott team had the exciting opportunity to locate and unravel.
The most ferocious attacks have occurred on two websites - Arcadia, run by Andrew Gough & the Rennes-le-Chateau Research and Resource site run by a character called Raven. ( Corjan De Raaf ). They have a vested interest in not being seen to support English researchers, as they work closely with French counterparts who have no wish to see the Hammott research expanded upon. We thought researchers would be interested in helping us solve any 'riddles' and that they would be excited regarding these finds.
However, there has been accusation after accusation, with our integrity called into question, and the repeated attacks suggest outright that we have hoaxed the whole affair, and that we are nothing but liars and fraudsters!


Did he really say 'integrity' there?!

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 Post subject: Re: Graal
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2012 8:42 am 
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Renne said;
Quote:
Dare I say that I`ve been through a false confession?


Oh joy! :roll:
Are you suggesting that, like Colin's confession, this is just an insincere ploy designed to relieve the pressure?
Can we expect a recidivist 'clarification' in a month or two?
Whilst the statement may have appeared 'dignified and sincere' the jury is still out as to whether it was 'full and frank'! :?
It did have a certain feel of 'taking one for the team' in that nothing is ever that clear cut.

If it was the case, then the credibility of those in the team who were 'duped' for a decade must suffer irreparable permanent damage.
In the final analysis anyone with pretensions to be regarded as a serious researcher in this position faces a bleak choice!
That of being either still implicated despite the 'confession' or as incredibly naive and incapable of using the most elementary
form of critical analysis, whose future pronouncements must always be regarded as unproven.

Between a rock and a hard place, indeed!

TD

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 Post subject: Re: Ark of the covenant
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2012 8:47 am 
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The deliberate collapse of a cave, as reported in Andrew's amended post yesterday, is yet another appalling act, making an already bad situation even worse. Reading this part of the locked post ...

Andrew Gough wrote:
The enormity and severity of the deceptions seems lost on the Rennes-le-Château community at large, as if an apology can make amends for a dozen-plus years of fraud. In addition, criminal offences may have been committed.


... I get the sense that there may be a degree of frustration that there isn't more anger being expressed about this. I can only speak for myself, but not having known the person concerned, and having progressively lost faith in his "research", ever since Bruce Burgess came on here in the summer of 2010 and revealed various things, I felt a kind of faint disgust and weary resignation about the latest revelations, rather than shock and outrage. Having initially tried to see the best in Hammott when this all originally kicked off with Bloodline, and tried (way too hard, in retrospect) to put the most charitable possible light on his actions, I'd got to the stage where I was more or less expecting something like this to come about sooner or later, though I certainly wasn't expecting the latest twist regarding a fake Ark of the Covenant. But I think the problem is that the genre is so discredited in any case, given all the charlatans that are drawn to it, given all the deception, false trails and innuendo that have characterised it over the years, given the mostly poisonous nature of inter-personal relations between those involved, given all the melodrama and hysteria, and given that much of the mystery is based on a pack of lies in the first place, that it's quite hard to be shocked by anything RLC-related any longer. If the bar is set so incredibly low, then it takes a lot to squeeze under it. Admittedly, this latest dismal episode accomplishes this, and it certainly shouldn't just be allowed to rest with a partial apology, and I would have thought that there must be some legal ramifications here as well. And I do understand the anger on the part of those who were either personally let down by this person, and by the various people, film makers, other researchers, etc. who have had their time so incredibly wasted by this, and also the many responsible and dedicated Rennes researchers who have had absolutely nothing to do with any of this, and who didn't even give it any credence to start with, but who will be discredited by their mere association with the genre, and the actions of those like Hammott, through no fault of their own. I truly get that, and they are right to be furious about it. But for this non-researcher, much less invested in the mystery, I'm sorry, but rather than feeling righteous indignation over it, one feels more a sense of apathetic disgust, and a desire to simply turn one's back on the whole thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Ark of the covenant
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2012 9:09 am 
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Raven wrote:
Re-reading Andrew's message from last night I noticed the real dating of the Bloodline body was 1957. That implies that it was a real body of a real person.
I believe the dating of the body was from the hair sample and the hair sample did not come from the body!

VAM


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 Post subject: Re: Ark of the covenant
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2012 9:26 am 
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richard.webster wrote:

.......................... I get the sense that there may be a degree of frustration that there isn't more anger being expressed about this. I can only speak for myself, but not having known the person concerned, and having progressively lost faith in his "research", ever since Bruce Burgess came on here in the summer of 2010 and revealed various things, I felt a kind of faint disgust and weary resignation about the latest revelations, rather than shock and outrage................................................




The irony about all this business is that if people like Hammott and others of their ilk, upfront, said their concoctions were fiction, they'd be multimillionaires a la Dan Brown.

Brown didn't exactly initiate the field of RLC research but he turned it into a money making machine superior by conceiving of a not so extraordinary piece of fiction and declaring it so.

If only the others had had the imagination to cast their creations as fiction they might have had the same or similar success (altho more than likely also suffered the relatively mild opprobium of genuine researchers) without the ultimate acrimony that comes with the discovery of a hoax.

Budding genre entrepreneurs take note!

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 Post subject: Re: Ark of the covenant
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2012 9:47 am 
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Quote:
Brown didn't exactly initiate the field of RLC research but he turned it into a money making machine superior by conceiving of a not so extraordinary piece of fiction and declaring it so.


hmm but DB's hook was that although it was a novel large parts of it were based on "truth" and he knew that the "love and light/namaste" brigade would not bother checking what he based that on but rather see it as confirmation for their belief system.


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 Post subject: Re: Ark of the covenant
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2012 9:58 am 
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I don´t think that "Ben" made and put all this, no way. And it is not easy to get to all those items just over ebay.

I think there is a "story behind the story" that we don´t know yet (and perhaps will never know).

Let´s wait and see...

But Ben alone: no way.


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 Post subject: Re: Ark of the covenant
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2012 10:00 am 
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did "Ben" lie continually to his own brother? I'm doubting that...but who knows


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 Post subject: Re: Ark of the covenant
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2012 10:04 am 
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Surely Bill Kersey's refusal to admit 'it was all a hoax' is also worthy of further attention. Bill/Ben, Sandy, Pat, Rene, and, no doubt, Bruce (as he made clear some months ago) have all held their hands up now, and admitted it was a hoax. However, it would seem from Kersey's posts that he is refusing to give up the fight. Undoubtedly this is because of his 'next book', based, as it is, on the hoax itself!

Roger's point about Haywood is IMHO also worthy of further attention.

Perhaps now might be an ideal time to chase down some other hoaxers!

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 Post subject: Re: Ark of the covenant
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2012 10:13 am 
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Davinho wrote:
Quote:
Brown didn't exactly initiate the field of RLC research but he turned it into a money making machine superior by conceiving of a not so extraordinary piece of fiction and declaring it so.


hmm but DB's hook was that although it was a novel large parts of it were based on "truth" and he knew that the "love and light/namaste" brigade would not bother checking what he based that on but rather see it as confirmation for their belief system.


For sure, but he knew how far to take it. His only irritants were the litigations instigated by disgruntled precursor "researchers". The latter crop of genre entrepreneurs hadn't his finely balanced sense of judgement. And as you pointed out earlier, the current hoax survived this long because the "love and light/namaste" brigade weren't willing to probe to the nth degree the contradictions and inconsistencies that must have appeared. But it is not only the "love and light/namaste" brigade that needs to be spotlighted. I suggest we are all in the same boat. In an earlier post, I asked Tommy who was the more reprehensible (I admit, too strong a word, but it will do), the perpetrator of the hoax or the individual that lends his credulity to the hoax. A hoax cannot survive/thrive without the dumb gullibility of the latter.

Having endured a full 6 years of the Maranatha Project, the finality of it akin to finding yourself at the dead end of a dark cave with a guide that has scampered, I can say I have only myself to blame.

I can at least say for myself that I did not succumb, as many others appeared to, to the lulling entreaties of its chief purveyor.

All hoaxes have their Svengali. Human gullibility does the rest.

_________________
"That historical explanation cannot deal in absolutes and cannot adduce sufficient causes greatly irritates some simple and impatient souls"
E. P. Thompson, The Poverty of Theory


Last edited by hotspur on 20 Mar 2012 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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